Is GM done?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

What do you think?

Vote yes if you think GM has no other choice than bankruptcy.

Vote no if you think government(taxpayer) money will give them the funds they need to turnaround.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

They burn through too much money! I see bankruptcy in the near future.

[2o6]

No.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

They burn through too much money! I see bankruptcy in the near future.

And that is the simple boiled down truth. No matter what anyone says these "loans" are nothing but life support payments. A few billion dollars buys them another few weeks, maybe a month. There is no simple fix.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

No.

Respect your opinion, but i really wonder how someone of your position comes up with that answer. GM BURNS through a few billion a month, at that rate there is little to no chance of "righting the ship". It's the same situation we are in now with the economy. The housing bubble bursts and revealed a decade worth of economic problems that were building up waiting to collapse. GM's problems have been brewing for a long time, this recent economic downturn just exposed them in full.

[sportyaccordy]

GM is like

the neighbor who turned his McMansion into an ATM, and cashed it out to buy bigger SUVs, TVs, and marble countertops

then got fired from his job

.

On one hand, u wanna say 'ur a fukking idiot... WTF is wrong w/u'

On the other hand, sometimes u just get caught w/ur pants down. And u cant help but feel bad for his family. They could only do so much to protect themselves from him

[S204STi]

I have no sympathy really, but at the same time it's bad news for everyone involved.

[2o6]

Respect your opinion, but i really wonder how someone of your position comes up with that answer. GM BURNS through a few billion a month, at that rate there is little to no chance of "righting the ship". It's the same situation we are in now with the economy. The housing bubble bursts and revealed a decade worth of economic problems that were building up waiting to collapse. GM's problems have been brewing for a long time, this recent economic downturn just exposed them in full.

A company that large doesn't just up and die. I do think it'll drastically shrink, though.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I have no sympathy really, but at the same time it's bad news for everyone involved.

I know what you mean. I think the COMPANY is getting exactly what it deserves. Years of mismanagement and frankly worthless leadership has resulted in a company that is worthless. Sadly the people responsable will collect large severence packages and shrug it off while the people who worked hard and had no say in the dreadful product over the years will be the ones who really suffer. I could care less if the company fails, but i do really feel for those(the workers) that are affected by the decisions of the fools above them. They had no say in the decisions that resulted in the lose of their jobs, homes and financial stability.

[2o6]

I have a question:


They're making money in china by the boatloads. Where is it going?

[Eye of the Tiger]

I know what you mean. I think the COMPANY is getting exactly what it deserves. Years of mismanagement and frankly worthless leadership has resulted in a company that is worthless. Sadly the people responsable will collect large severence packages and shrug it off while the people who worked hard and had no say in the dreadful product over the years will be the ones who really suffer. I could care less if the company fails, but i do really feel for those(the workers) that are affected by the decisions of the fools above them. They had no say in the decisions that resulted in the lose of their jobs, homes and financial stability.

It's okay, O'bama will give them all new jobs building railroads!

[Catman]

[Eye of the Tiger]

 

[2o6]

Quick question:


If GM Declares Bankruptcy, what will happen? I forget the difference between Ch 7 and CH 11.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Quick question:


If GM Declares Bankruptcy, what will happen? I forget the difference between Ch 7 and CH 11.

Ford will buy them and build everybody's dream car: The Thundervette.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Quick question:


If GM Declares Bankruptcy, what will happen? I forget the difference between Ch 7 and CH 11.

Chapter 7= lights out, clear the ****ing building by 12PM, demolished by 1PM
Chapter 11 = dim the lights, sack up the garbage, rearrange the furniture, "lose" a few bills and then turn the lights back on.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Ford will buy them and build everybody's dream car: The Thundervette.

[TBR]

I have a question:


They're making money in china by the boatloads. Where is it going?

To cover their losses in N/A.

I think their Euro division is also profitable.

Bankruptcy will happen, the question is how much money and time our government will waste trying to stop it from happening.

[sportyaccordy]

Maybe they will just stop US operations under Chapter 11. That would be fucking weird, GM doing business everywhere but the US.

[cozmik]

Maybe they will just stop US operations under Chapter 11. That would be fucking weird, GM doing business everywhere but the US.

GM's European workers union or whatever wants GM Europe spun off into a separate company. They are afraid they're going to get drug down with the US operations (and they probably will be)

[Yawn]

Maybe just US.. but everywhere else they do well.. I dont think US should  not reflect global GM...

Just like Ford.. I think in Europe its great but in the US.. sucks...

[2o6]

Suprisingly, I don't think it's their product. Granted it wasn't that good, but they still sold extremely well. I think ALL of the money was mismanaged. For instance, the J-Car. It was reliable, but aside from being reliable (Well, maybe styling) the Cavalier and it's offspring had nothing going for it. However, it was dirt cheap to make and used mechanicals that date back to the 70's. IIRC, it maintained the #2 and #3 spots for best selling US small car. Where did that money go?

[SVT666]

The J-Body with the 2.4L was not reliable in the least.

[SVT666]

I think GM should turn their foreign branches into separate companies owned by a new mother corp, and then file for Chapter 11 in the US.  Then start all over again in the US with all new product.

It's probably too simplistic and it probably wouldn't work, but hey, what the hell...nothing else is working.

[SVT666]

Ford will buy them and build everybody's dream car: The Thundervette.

It will make the ZR1 look like a Miata.

[NomisR]

Suprisingly, I don't think it's their product. Granted it wasn't that good, but they still sold extremely well. I think ALL of the money was mismanaged. For instance, the J-Car. It was reliable, but aside from being reliable (Well, maybe styling) the Cavalier and it's offspring had nothing going for it. However, it was dirt cheap to make and used mechanicals that date back to the 70's. IIRC, it maintained the #2 and #3 spots for best selling US small car. Where did that money go?

High overhead cost.  Profit per unit is probably lower than competitors.

[2o6]

The J-Body with the 2.4L was not reliable in the least.

Later ECOTEC powered ones were OK.

[Lebowski]

while the people who worked hard and had no say in the dreadful product over the years will be the ones who really suffer. I could care less if the company fails, but i do really feel for those(the workers) that are affected by the decisions of the fools above them.

You feel for the unionized workers, who sucked the company dry over a period of decades?

And sure they had a say - if they didn't like it, they could leave and find another job.  They would never do that though, as they were being paid significantly above-market wages in exchange for their (largely unskilled) labour.

I'm not saying the company was well managed (it wasn't), but GM, F, and Chrysler's underlying structural problem lies in their overpaid, inefficient union labor forces. 

[2o6]

You feel for the unionized workers, who sucked the company dry over a period of decades?

And sure they had a say - if they didn't like it, they could leave and find another job.  They would never do that though, as they were being paid significantly above-market wages in exchange for their (largely unskilled) labour.

I'm not saying the company was well managed (it wasn't), but GM, F, and Chrysler's underlying structural problem lies in their overpaid, inefficient union labor forces. 

I agree. Their product was never that bad. The 2000 Malibu was critically acclaimed, and sold well. Now all of a sudden it's a horrible car?

People bought their cars.

[cozmik]

Basically, everything people related with the companies was a total fuckup.

I was supportive of the loans to keep them going, but after seeing their so called plans, I'm ready for them to die. Quickly. They still have no plan, they're just saying what they've been saying all along. They've not offered any real way to achieve these goals, just stated they will. With magic I guess.