Is GM done?

[TurboDan]

This might sound dumb but...

Anyone think GM should scrap some of the brand names?  "Pontiac" and "Chevrolet" sound like old-man brand names.  They don't convey the sense of cutting-edge technology and modern, tight designs lines.  I always thought these awful-sounding brand names make them less attractive to younger buyers.

[2o6]

And young people don't have any money.

[93JC]

It's not as though their competitors have particularly good names. Toyota? Sounds about as interesting as Toshiba. Same with Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi and all the other Japanese names.

The Japanese luxo-brands are more loathsome because they're obvious marketing ploys. Lexus? Blech. Infiniti? Get over yourselves and spell it with a 'y', dickheads. Acura? Acur...rate? What are you trying to say, Honda?

The German brands are just as stodgy. Mercedes-Benz? I don't know if it gets any stodgier than that. BMW is only slightly less so. Volkswagen, Audi: these aren't particularly sexy names.

In fact, the only brands that really roll off the tongue sounding sexy and hip are the Italians. Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc.

You can make any name sound cool if you have decent product and excellent marketing.

[93JC]

And young people don't have any money.

Old people buy shit that they think young people think is cool.

Witness Scion.

[Vinsanity]

In fact, the only brands that really roll off the tongue sounding sexy and hip are the Italians. Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc.

and I believe even those cars were just named after their founders, anyway. IIRC, Ferrari is a very common name in Italy (like "Smith" or "Ford" in N. America)

[93JC]

Yeah, they are just some guys' names, but they sound awesome.

Difference between 'Sophie Lauren' and Sofia Loren.

[Nethead]

Getting back on topic, this is an article from www.leftlanenews.com:

U.S. Treasury Department looking to secure bankruptcy financing for GM, Chrysler

General Motors and Chrysler may be strongly opposed to a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing, but the U.S. Treasury Department could be planning to force their hand in the matter. Per a new report, the Treasury Department is readying a $40 billion financing package, should either of the Detroit automakers file for bankruptcy protection.

A person close to the situation revealed to Bloomberg that ?everything is on the table? for GM and Chrysler, including possible Chapter 11 filings for both companies. President Obama wants all scenarios to be planned out, but is reportedly keeping bankruptcy talks quiet as to not upset the UAW.

There is an ongoing debate as to which scenario is best for the automakers and the U.S. government ? further government funding or a privately-funded bankruptcy plan ? but it sounds as if the Obama administration would prefer to hand off the problem to the financial sector. The government has already approached Citigroup and J.P. Morgan Chase to provided bankruptcy financing, should GM and Chrysler require it.

GM and Chrysler claim the cost of bankruptcy would run the government $125 billion, but several experts believe that is on the high side. The $40 billion the Treasury Department is looking to secure would go towards the day-to-day operations of both companies, as well as repaying the $17.4 billion already doled out to the ailing automakers.

As it stands now, GM has received $13.4 billion in government funds and has requested an additional $16.6 billion, totaling $30 billion. The Detroit-based automaker has also requested another $7.7 billion to aid in the development of more fuel efficient vehicles.

Chrysler has received $4 billion and has submitted a request for an additional $5 billion.

It remains to be seen which scenario will play out, but it sounds as if two of the three big U.S. automakers could be filing for bankruptcy protection within the next few weeks.

[omicron]

Oddly enough, I find Pontiac and Chevrolet to be marvellous names; of course, my experience with them is confined to snorting Firebirds and elegant Impalas.

[the Teuton]

Omi, life will suck for you when in the name of consolidation you guys get a rebadged FWD Impala as your next Commodore.

[omicron]

Omi, life will suck for you when in the name of consolidation you guys get a rebadged FWD Impala as your next Commodore.

And to think - we handed you the large RWD platform on a silver platter. Paid for, developed, tested, everything.

[the Teuton]

And to think - we handed you the large RWD platform on a silver platter. Paid for, developed, tested, everything.

It's because we don't know how to market products to American consumers in America.

I really do believe the car would have sold better even at a higher price if it was sold here as the Buick Park Avenue, just like the Chinese version.

[sportyaccordy]

If the GTO were smaller and available in compact/midsize form....

How come Ford isn't in any trouble? Aren't they UAW'd up too?

[Byteme]

If the GTO were smaller and available in compact/midsize form....

How come Ford isn't in any trouble? Aren't they UAW'd up too?

Ford has it's share of troubles.  Turns out they just played it a bit smarter with better management early on.  Probably a better product lineup too.

Edit:  You might find this interesting:

Union boss backs Ford contract concessions
Wednesday February 25, 8:30 am ET 
US union boss urges members to vote for Ford contract concessions, says survival at stake


DETROIT (AP) -- United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger is telling union members to vote for contract concessions to Ford Motor Co., saying the automaker can't survive in the long term without major restructuring.
Gettelfinger says in a letter to 42,000 hourly Ford workers that the company is burning through $1 billion per month to stay in business because revenue has dropped so dramatically.

He recommends that members vote for concessions and points out that the union was able to preserve base pay, keep current health benefits and pensions and prevent further plant closures.

But the union has also agreed to give up cost of living pay raises and cash bonuses, and the company will offer another round of buyout and early retirement incentives to shed more workers.

[Nethead]

Oddly enough, I find Pontiac and Chevrolet to be marvellous names; of course, my experience with them is confined to snorting Firebirds and elegant Impalas.

The last elegant Impala was a 1966 vehicle, itself somewhat of a step down from the gorgeous 1965 Impala.  The '65 Impala Super Sport was the zenith of full-sized Chevrolets.  The very next year ('66), the Super Sport was replaced at the top of the full-sized line-up by the Caprice, a vehicle destined to gain weight, softness, ugliness, and sloth until no one wanted full-sized Chevies anymore.  This attitude has snowballed, and it might be justified to speculate that the sunset of Chevrolet began with the Caprice...

[Byteme]

The last elegant Impala was a 1966 vehicle, itself somewhat of a step down from the gorgeous 1965 Impala.  The '65 Impala Super Sport was the zenith of full-sized Chevrolets.  The very next year ('66), the Super Sport was replaced at the top of the full-sized line-up by the Caprice, a vehicle destined to gain weight, softness, ugliness, and sloth until no one wanted full-sized Chevies anymore.  This attitude has snowballed, and it might be justified to speculate that the sunset of Chevrolet began with the Caprice...

I've got to agree with that.  65-66 were two great years for most American cars.

Chevy Impala and Mailbu and Corvair

1966 Pontiac GTO

Pontiac full size cars

1966 Olds Toronado

Full size Fords, and the Fairlanes and Mustangs.  Even the 66 Falcon was good looking.

1966 Dodge Charger

Maybe it's because that's when I was learning to drive, but I think the Big three made a lot of very good looking cars those two years.

[Nethead]

I've got to agree with that.  65-66 were two great years for most American cars.

Chevy Impala and Mailbu and Corvair

1966 Pontiac GTO

Pontiac full size cars

1966 Olds Toronado

Full size Fords, and the Fairlanes and Mustangs.  Even the 66 Falcon was good looking.

1966 Dodge Charger

Maybe it's because that's when I was learning to drive, but I think the Big three made a lot of very good looking cars those two years.

Byteme:  ByteDude!  Yes, it was a glorious time indeed!  I wholeheartedly agree and  yet at the same time I somewhat disagree with some of the examples you posted.  Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks!  Be aware that I was a serious bowtie fanboy at the time, so the opinions expressed here may not represent the opinions of this station or its affiliates...

The '65 Impala:  Gorgeous!  A glamorous machine that was the absolute Zenith of the full-sized Chevrolets!
The '66 Impala:  The more GM-generic grille and the run-of-the-mill rectangular taillights detracted from the the glory of the '65 Impala, but it was still the second-best full-sized Chevy of all time.
The '65 Malibu:  Quite housewife-ish, unless you got the 327 with a 4-speed manual.  Then, it was fast housewife-ish.  The last 200 built were special order models equipped with a no-holds-barred solid-lifters 375 HP 396 and a four-speed manual!  w00t!!!
The '66 Malibu--specifically the "Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu Super Sport SS396" (and there were chrome potmetal badges attesting to "All of the Above" somewhere on the exterior of that car)--is the most desirable Chevy of all time, for the money (I was sellin' Chevies for a living at that time, and a 360 HP SS396 Chevelle with Positraction, a four-speed, Super Sport mag-style five-spoke hubcaps, Tiger Paws, and a radio MSRP'd at $3265 at our small-town dealership.).  Life was good!
'66 GTO:  Along with the '64 GTO and the '68 GTO, these were the cars that defined "musclecar" for our generation!
Pontiac full-sized cars:  The peak of Pontiac--Grand Prixs and Bonnevilles!  Ah, the good ol' days!
1966 Olds Toronado:  Awesome, although a little bit steep for the small blue-collar factory town I came from--no young men could even dream of financing a Toro!  What a styling achievement, even if the engineering was excessively complicated!
Full-sized Fords:  The "1963-and-a-half fastback Galaxie 500s" are my all-time favorite full-sized Fords--especially with the new-for-1963 427 (of later fame in 427 Cobras).  The '64s were shameless pigs--portly and overweight.  The '65s were sharp & crisp, but basically rip-offs of Pontiac styling.  The '66s were the worst full-sized Fords ever, and mark the low-point for the full-sized Fords (huge, heavy, ugly, marshmallowy soft, yada yada yada--OINK!).  The '67s got full-sized Fords back on track, finally, and they got an edge over the full-sized Chevies that they never relinquished until the full-sized Chevies ceased production a decade or more ago.
Fairlanes:  Very mixed feelings here.  The small '64s & '65s were OK, but very domestic (aka dull).  The '66 & '67 Fairlanes were patent attempts to scramble for the scraps dropped from the table of the GM intermediates--and the top engine, the boat anchor 390 from the T-Bird parts bin, was the dog of dogs.  Then, the Torino replaced the Fairlane in '68 and Ford's intermediates became a force to be reckoned with for the first time ever (don't bring up the 427-engined '64 Fairlane Thunderbolts--rare vehicles built for the dragstrips and never for the dealerships).
Falcons:  I never saw a good-looking Falcon--not once.  '65 Comets were cool, though!  '66 and '67 Nova Super Sports were hot, too, especially with the 350 HP 327!  But these cars had to compete with the first Mustangs, so they went into tailspins from which there was no recovery possible...
Corvairs:  All of them sucked outloud and offkey--we coulda run the dealership solely on the profits from expensive Corvair repairs.  Every morning, there would be a line of sick Corvairs lined up outside the service department all the way around the hillside that bounded our used car lot on the east.  The last gen Corvairs were a big improvement over the totally pitiful first gen Corvairs, but they were up against the Mustang, too, and were destined for extinction well before anyone knew who Ralph Nader was or that he wrote "Unsafe at Any Speed".
The '66 Dodge Charger:   Big-time full fastbacks that made a bold in-yer-face statement--the '68 Chargers became the greatest Dodge full-sized car of all time.  The '66 was good-looking, but the '68 was stunning!  Sorta like comparing a young Jennifer Anniston (a long time ago!) to a young Sophia Loren (a really long time ago!)...the young Jennifer looked great, but would wilt and wither next to the young Sophia Loren (voted "World's Most Beautiful Woman" so many times I think they retired the title).  Such was the '68 Charger, and the real Hemi only added to that!

Those were the days!

[Nethead]

And to think - we handed you the large RWD platform on a silver platter. Paid for, developed, tested, everything.

omicron: No, OmiDude, you handed GM a large RWD platform on a silver platter. 
Ford already had several developed & tested RWD platforms and Dodge was about to introduce its own--and the platform known as Mustang was about to come storming back in the Fall of 2004.  The Mustang, the Charger, and the GTO are all affordable four-passenger performance cars, but the Mustang has much broader appeal because it can be configured so many different ways to suit so many different buyers.  It ain't overpriced, either, yet it offers a horsepower range of 210 HP to 500 HP (to 540 HP from the factory in 2010), lots of quality standard features, great options, a great reputation, plenty of servicing dealerships, a huge aftermarket, dozens of specialized tuner manufacturer variants, and even a half-dozen different factory racecars.  There are many, many more reasons why over 9,000,000 million Mustangs and counting have been sold, and why competitors are imitating it yet again.

Essentially, the Mustang survived the extinction of the musclecars and the extinction of the "ponycars" because not only is it the icon of affordable performance, it is also a really good car.  Both traits have enhanced its reputation, so it has been the car of choice for millions who need more than just a coupe or a sedan with a big-block dropped into it. 

[Byteme]

Full-sized Fords:   The '65s were sharp & crisp, but basically rip-offs of Pontiac styling.  The '66s were the worst full-sized Fords ever, and mark the low-point for the full-sized Fords (huge, heavy, ugly, marshmallowy soft, yada yada yada--OINK!). 
I learned to drive in a 1966 428 Galaxie 500 LTD.  Driver's ed car.  We had a 65 Custom 500 as a family car.  I remeber the3 66's as basically the same car with different grills, taillights and humps over the rear wheels instead of straight rear fenders.


Falcons:  I never saw a good-looking Falcon--not once.  '65 Comets were cool, though!  '66 and '67 Nova Super Sports were hot, too, especially with the 350 HP 327!  But these cars had to compete with the first Mustangs, so they went into tailspins from which there was no recovery possible...
Starting in 66 the Falcon adpted the Ford corporate styling, the full size cars, the Fairlanes and Falcons all looked similar, just larger or smaller.


Corvairs:  All of them sucked outloud and offkey--we coulda run the dealership solely on the profits from expensive Corvair repairs.  Every morning, there would be a line of sick Corvairs lined up outside the service department all the way around the hillside that bounded our used car lot on the east.  The last gen Corvairs were a big improvement over the totally pitiful first gen Corvairs, but they were up against the Mustang, too, and were destined for extinction well before anyone knew who Ralph Nader was or that he wrote "Unsafe at Any Speed". We will agree to disagree on the 65+ years.

The '66 Dodge Charger:   Big-time full fastbacks that made a bold in-yer-face statement--the '68 Chargers became the greatest Dodge full-sized car of all time.  The '66 was good-looking, but the '68 was stunning!  Sorta like comparing a young Jennifer Anniston (a long time ago!) to a young Sophia Loren (a really long time ago!)...the young Jennifer looked great, but would wilt and wither next to the young Sophia Loren (voted "World's Most Beautiful Woman" so many times I think they retired the title).  Such was the '68 Charger, and the real Hemi only added to that!
But I owned a 66 so I like that one better!!


Those were the days!

Ah, to be young again.

[S204STi]

[Nethead]

The Left Lane News is hardly the source of heartening news today.  Saab is closed down by Swedish Customs, and GM has nothing cheery to report:

02/26/2009, 7:45 AM
General Motors reports $9.6 billion fourth quarter net loss

This morning, General Motors announced a net loss of $9.6 billion for the the fourth quarter of 2008, a whopping $6.4 billion of which can be attributed to ongoing operations. Another $3.7 billion reflects one-time charges related to restructuring, with a slight $436 million offset coming from changes in accounting. GM?s overall operating loss for 2008 now stands at $16.3 billion ? a big jump from the $1.9 billion loss realized in 2007.

Compared to the year-ago quarter, Q4 2008 was $3.2 billion worse in terms of operating loss, while the overall deficit was was $5.2 billion deeper. Fourth quarter special items include a $1.1 billion impairment charge related to Hummer and Saab, a $1.0 billion reduction in the value of deferred tax assets, $900 million for restructuring and capacity-related costs, $660 million to Delphi?s pension obligations, and a $610 million goodwill impairment.

Overall, the automaker reported a $30.9 billion net loss for 2008.

Overall loss was $30.9 billion, which represents an improvement over 2007?s $43.3 billion figure. Due to slumping sales, revenue was down dramatically for the quarter as well ? $30.8 billion for 2008 versus $46.8 billion for 2007. That said, the company?s market share also took a small tumble, falling from 22.7 percent to 21.0 percent in the United States. GM total revenue in 2008 was $149 billion, compared with $180 billion in 2007. Global industry sales in 2008 were down 5 percent, or 3.6 million vehicles, versus 2007 levels, and U.S. industry sales fell by 18 percent, or nearly 3 million units.

?2008 was an extremely difficult year for the U.S. and global auto markets, especially the second half, ? Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said.? These conditions created a very challenging environment for GM and other automakers, and led us to take further aggressive and difficult measures to restructure our business.

In the fourth quarter, GMAC Financial Services reported net profit of $7.5 billion, driven largely by the company?s December bond exchange. This compares with a net loss of $724 million in the fourth quarter of 2007. Excluding the $11.4 billion gain on its bond exchange, GMAC?s results in the fourth quarter reflected a net loss of $4.0 billion. GMAC reported net profit of $1.9 billion in 2008, compared with a net loss of $2.3 billion in 2007.

GM reported an adjusted loss of $4.7 billion attributable to GMAC, as a result of its 49 percent equity interest for the year, and an adjusted loss of $1.9 billion for the fourth quarter. This excludes a fourth quarter net gain of $533 million related to GM?s portion of GMAC?s bond exchange gain that was largely offset by an impairment of GM?s investment in GMAC.

[the Teuton]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-posts-96B-4Q-loss-burns-apf-14477495.html


GM posts $9.6B 4Q loss, burns through $6.2B cash
General Motors posts $9.6B 4Q loss, burns through $6.2B of cash while seeking government loans

    * Tom Krisher and Kimberly S. Johnson, AP Auto Writers
    * Thursday February 26, 2009, 1:08 pm EST

DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Corp. posted a $9.6 billion fourth-quarter loss and said it burned through $6.2 billion of cash in the last three months of 2008 as it fought the worst U.S. auto sales climate since 1982 and sought government loans to keep the century-old company running.

The nation's biggest domestic automaker said Thursday it lost $30.9 billion for the full year and expects to state in its upcoming annual report whether its auditors believe the company remains a "going concern." GM and its auditors must determine whether there is substantial doubt about the automaker's ability to continue it operations.

Chief Financial Officer Ray Young said the determination will depend a lot on whether GM gets further government loans and whether it can accomplish its restructuring goals.

GM is screwed.  That is way too money to lose in one quarter.  Toyota didn't lose maybe $1 billion all of last year, and they had several new models come out as well as a huge sales down spiral, too.  I wouldn't give GM a loan at this point.

[Nethead]

Full-sized Fords:   The '65s were sharp & crisp, but basically rip-offs of Pontiac styling.  The '66s were the worst full-sized Fords ever, and mark the low-point for the full-sized Fords (huge, heavy, ugly, marshmallowy soft, yada yada yada--OINK!). 
I learned to drive in a 1966 428 Galaxie 500 LTD.  Driver's ed car.  We had a 65 Custom 500 as a family car.  I remeber the3 66's as basically the same car with different grills, taillights and humps over the rear wheels instead of straight rear fenders.
My Driver's Ed car was a straight-six '63 Chevy Biscayne (cheapest full-sized Chevy at that time) four-slammer with dual clutch pedals (for the three-on-the-tree) and dual brake pedals (for the four wheel drum brakes).  White with blue cloth interior.  The PE coach was the instructor, and three of us rising sophomores scared him into premature residency in a nursing home.  'Scared ourselves, too...

Yeah, you have described the exterior differences between the '66 full-sized Fords and the '65 full-sized Fords quite well--I was sellin' Chevies at the time so I can't tell you much about any other differences other than, like Chevy did with the Caprice in 1966, Ford replaced the Galaxie 500 as the top model with a model entitled the "7-Litre", available only with a 428 automatic.  The "7-Litre" model may have only been available in 1966, and Chevy shoulda done the same with the Caprice.  Both added weight (mostly insulation and sound deadeners), softness, and expense (our dealership's demo was a Marina Blue '66 Caprice formal-roof (not the graceful fastback on the Impala Super Sport) two-door with every possible '66 Chevy option (including the 396) except a vinyl roof ('Dunno how they missed out on that one )).  It even had a fruity horn that played (deafeningly loud) the late 'Fifties/early 'Sixties Chevy theme song: "See the USA in a Chevrolet".   This was a Chevy that stickered at a little over $5000.00 (the fruity horn and it's loudspeakers were around $114.00 of that), amazing (or appalling) for that era...
Such were the times whereof I speak...
Falcons:  I never saw a good-looking Falcon--not once.  '65 Comets were cool, though!  '66 and '67 Nova Super Sports were hot, too, especially with the 350 HP 327!  But these cars had to compete with the first Mustangs, so they went into tailspins from which there was no recovery possible...
Starting in 66 the Falcon adpted the Ford corporate styling, the full size cars, the Fairlanes and Falcons all looked similar, just larger or smaller.
Little known fact:  The '66 Falcon was a rejected '64 Mustang design--early clay models of the four-passenger Mustangs were two-sided: What we know today as the '64 Mustang was on one side and the design that later became the Falcon was on the other.  The side that became the Falcon in '66 was rejected as "too busy" for the Mustang by the folks at Ford whose job it was to make styling/design decisions like that.

Corvairs:  All of them sucked outloud and offkey--we coulda run the dealership solely on the profits from expensive Corvair repairs.  Every morning, there would be a line of sick Corvairs lined up outside the service department all the way around the hillside that bounded our used car lot on the east.  The last gen Corvairs were a big improvement over the totally pitiful first gen Corvairs, but they were up against the Mustang, too, and were destined for extinction well before anyone knew who Ralph Nader was or that he wrote "Unsafe at Any Speed". We will agree to disagree on the 65+ years.
Make no mistake, those latter Corvairs were huge improvements over the originals, but the damage had been done by the sheer miserableness of the original Corvairs.  By the time the latter Corvairs hit the dealerships, the Corvair Monzas and Corvair Corsas were up against V8 Mustangs (260s in '64, followed by 289s in '65 and then 302s in '67)--and that was no contest in the mid-'Sixties.

The '66 Dodge Charger:   Big-time full fastbacks that made a bold in-yer-face statement--the '68 Chargers became the greatest Dodge full-sized car of all time.  The '66 was good-looking, but the '68 was stunning!  Sorta like comparing a young Jennifer Anniston (a long time ago!) to a young Sophia Loren (a really long time ago!)...the young Jennifer looked great, but would wilt and wither next to the young Sophia Loren (voted "World's Most Beautiful Woman" so many times I think they retired the title).  Such was the '68 Charger, and the real Hemi only added to that!
But I owned a 66 so I like that one better!!
Wow, GREAT car to own!  I can't blame you for liking it better--ownin' beats pinin' a thousand or more to one!

Those were the days!

Ah, to be young again.
Or filthy effin' rich at the very least!

[Byteme]

My Driver's Ed car was a straight-six '63 Chevy Biscayne (cheapest full-sized Chevy at that time) four-slammer with dual clutches (for the three-on-the-tree) and dual brakes (for the four wheel drum brakes).  White with blue cloth interior.  The PE coach was the instructor, and three of us rising sophomores scared him into premature residency in a nursing home.  'Scared ourselves, too...

My first car was a 63 Belaire four door sedan with a 230 cuin engine generating about 140 SAE gross brake horsepower.  With a three speed on the column.  Green/Green.  A great first car and I was damned proud of it even though it was just a six with a three on the tree.   About everything basic I learned about cars I learned on that one.

[SVT666]

GM to cut marketing, incentives budget by $800 million

General Motors announced this afternoon that it plans to curtail its North American marketing budget by about $800 million this year - a figure that includes vehicle incentive spending. The budget cut comes on the heels of the automaker? high losses for the fourth quarter of its fiscal year announced earlier today.

GM says that the cuts are in response to lower sales volumes, but they raise concerns in the industry that GM could wind up in a bankruptcy court or be subject to a government reorganization.

Earlier today, GM reported a net loss of $30.9 billion for 2009, $9.6 billion of which occurred in the fourth quarter of the year.

GM has already significantly curtailed its marketing budget, including a $600 million cut after third quarter earnings were announced back in December. The automaker was heavily reliant on incentive spending in the fourth quarter to move products as consumers cut back further on their purchases.

[SVT666]

Yeah, that's brilliant GM.  Cut marketing.  The one thing you should never cut during a recession.  The one thing GM can't afford right now, is having the general public forgetting who they are.

[Vinsanity]

Yeah, that's brilliant GM.  Cut marketing.  The one thing you should never cut during a recession.  The one thing GM can't afford right now, is having the general public forgetting who they are.

If they're going to kill Hummer, ditch Saab, phase out Pontiac, and spin off Saturn anyways, then they might as well stop reminding people that they still exist.

[SVT666]

If they're going to kill Hummer, ditch Saab, phase out Pontiac, and spin off Saturn anyways, then they might as well stop reminding people that they still exist.

Put that money into advertising the Malibu, G8, G6, CTS, Cobalt SS, etc. etc.

[Nethead]

From www.autoweek.com comes this more detailed account of the massive losses reported yesterday:

GM posts wider loss, burns through $5.2 billion in cash
By JESSE SNYDER, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

General Motors lost money for the sixth straight quarter.

General Motors, battered by a global economic collapse and buoyed by U.S. rescue loans, posted its sixth straight quarterly loss and burned through $5.2 billion in cash as revenue shrank by more than a third.

The net loss of $9.6 billion in the fourth quarter compares with a loss of $1.5 billion a year earlier. The operating loss was $5.9 billion. GM said it expects auditors to cast doubt on the company's ability to survive as a "going concern."

The loss sealed CEO Rick Wagoner's fourth straight year without a profit and reflects the distress that GM showed last week when it asked the U.S. Treasury for as much as $16.6 billion in additional U.S. aid. GM, which has received $13.4 billion so far, said the request reflected a market that was deteriorating more rapidly than anticipated.

"2008 was an extremely difficult year for the U.S. and global auto markets," Wagoner said in a statement. "We expected these challenging conditions will continue through 2009, and so we are accelerating our restructuring actions."

GM ended the year with $14 billion in cash, including its initial installment of $4 billion in U.S. loans. In its previous quarterly report in early November, GM said it was close to exhausting its cash supply. The automaker then petitioned Congress for help, was rejected by the Senate and bailed out by lame-duck President George W. Bush.

This year, GM has officially yielded the global sales title to Toyota Motor Corp., which itself is about to post its first annual operating loss in 70 years. GM recorded a 49 percent sales decline in January U.S. sales, as demand sank to its lowest mark since 1981.

GM's fate now rests with a task force appointed by President Barack Obama, who told Congress this week that the Detroit 3's ills were largely self-inflicted as he pledged to help create an industry that "can compete and win."

Wagoner was scheduled to meet later today with the task force, headed by U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and White House economic adviser Larry Summers.

Regional results

GM lost money in each of its four regions last quarter .

North America had the steepest deficit, with an adjusted net loss before taxes of $2.1 billion, almost double the year-earlier total . On that same basis, GM Europe had a $956 million loss, more than four times as much as in the fourth quarter of 2007 .

The figure was $879 million in the GM Asia Pacific region $154 million and in Latin America, Africa and the Middle East. Both regions were profitable a year ago .

GM, like smaller rival Chrysler LLC, faces pressure to wrap up concession talks with the UAW on how to cut funding promised to a health-care trust fund. Chrysler has received $4 billion in U.S. loans and seeks $5 billion more.

GM's has offered the UAW up to $10.2 billion in new equity in order to give up a cash claim on half of the $20.4 billion it is owed for the trust fund.

The UAW reached a deal with Ford Motor Co. this week on terms to restructure its own retiree health-are debt to the union on similar terms.

But GM's parallel negotiations with its bondholders have been more difficult because debtholders have been asked to make a deeper concession than the UAW.

Under the terms of GM's bailout, bondholders representing some $27 billion in debt face pressure to swap into equity in a deal intended to cut remaining bond debt to about $9 billion.

But bondholders have objected to both GM's remaining debt load and the higher payout ratio for the UAW.

GM's shares have plunged by 89 percent over the past year partly in recognition of the risk that either the government-brokered restructuring or a bankruptcy would wipe out most of the automaker's current equity.

"We continue to believe the government will support GM outside of a bankruptcy," J.P. Morgan credit analyst Eric Selle said in a note for clients this week.

GM could win a deal with bondholders to reduce its $27 billion in bond debt by 60 percent, he said, if the government were willing to offer a debt guarantee .

Reuters contributed to this report.

[Nethead]

GM to cut marketing, incentives budget by $800 million

General Motors announced this afternoon that it plans to curtail its North American marketing budget by about $800 million this year - a figure that includes vehicle incentive spending. The budget cut comes on the heels of the automaker’ high losses for the fourth quarter of its fiscal year announced earlier today.

GM says that the cuts are in response to lower sales volumes, but they raise concerns in the industry that GM could wind up in a bankruptcy court or be subject to a government reorganization.

Earlier today, GM reported a net loss of $30.9 billion for 2009, $9.6 billion of which occurred in the fourth quarter of the year.

GM has already significantly curtailed its marketing budget, including a $600 million cut after third quarter earnings were announced back in December. The automaker was heavily reliant on incentive spending in the fourth quarter to move products as consumers cut back further on their purchases.

If just half of the monster money squandered on Marketing (See how much good that did them, huh?) had been spent on engineering, GM would not be the subject of this thread...

[JWC]

Anyone catch the report that France wants the WTO to investigate the bailout of US auto companies? 

Automotive News
February 27, 2009 - 4:00 am ET


SAINT-VULBAS (Reuters) -- France wants U.S. aid to the car sector to be checked to see if it fits World Trade Organization rules, President Nicolas Sarkozy said, escalating tensions over rival industrial policies.