Electric cars: what would be the real cost?

[Soup DeVille]

Something occured to me the other day. Gasoline right now is found pretty much only at gas stations, and rthe only way to really get it out of their is to buy it. Sure, they get their ocassional drive-off, but thats no different than the risk any retail enterprise takes.

Electricity however is ubiquitous. Any enterprising thief with a smattering of knowledge could steal it from almost anywhere with very little equipment. Light poles, residential AC boxes, even stealing it directly from the exposed high voltage lines wouldn't be too difficult, albeit dangerous. For the less enterprising, all they need is an extension cord and a receptacle in a convienient place. They're all over if you know where to look. Service receptacles on the backs of every commercial building, christmas light plug in grassy areas at the edge of parking lots, all kinds of possibilities exist.

So, what happens when this becomes commonplace? The extra energy use could be substantial, and it would all have to be reflected in rising bills for honest customers. Securing all these potential theft points would be a monumental task. Eventually, somebody is going to unknowingly dump 4800 volts from the wrong side of the transformer directly into his battery pack, and not only kill himself but probably set somehting on fire and cause power outages.

I think this could become a major potential speed bump that nobody has really thought about before.

[AutobahnSHO]

They're actually designing charging points in CA- swipe your card, pay like a parking meter, or whatever.

I haven't read about the theft being looked at yet, I'm sure it will quickly become a misdemeanor or whatever to plug in without authorization. (A $100-350 ticket for a couple bucks worth of power might not dissuade everyone but will keep most flying right..)

[Galaxy]

Well they are considering making the electric cars intelligent enough that they actually communicate with the power gride, so that the cars know how much power they can draw or even swap back into the gride during peak usage. So it would not be to difficult to add theft protection. For sure what ever they come up with will be beaten, but it is another layer the thief has to override.

[FoMoJo]

I remember that syphoning gas was a pretty commonplace activity; especially for young guys low on cash.  It never presented that great a problem.  As for electric cars, once the technology advances so that you can have a home-charging station powered by solar or other form of available renewable energy, it should be advantageous; excepting for those who are in the business of selling fuel or collecting taxes on fuel.

[GoCougs]

The $$$ amount to charge a battery pack would be precious little, and take hours; meaning the financial loss is both low and the incidence would be low.

Further, my hunch is that should they become mainstream they'll have auto-sensing voltage circuitry whereby the system won't work unless the connected voltage is correct.

In the 0.000001% electric cars make it mainstream, the vast majority of people will follow the rules.

[Submariner]

My question is...do electric cars present that much of a energy advantage over gasoline counterparts?  Most electric cars don't suffer from the weighty safety regulations gas cars have, and I'm sure automakers could make internal combustion engines much more efficient if they desired. 

[AutobahnSHO]

My question is...do electric cars present that much of a energy advantage over gasoline counterparts?  Most electric cars don't suffer from the weighty safety regulations gas cars have, and I'm sure automakers could make internal combustion engines much more efficient if they desired. 

Gasoline engines are very inefficient. You get what, 10-20% of the power from the expansive explosion, while 80-90% is wasted as heat??

It's easier to be more efficient on a large-scale, such as in power plants.

And if it was that much easier to make gas engines more efficient, they'd ALL be doing it NOW to sell cars as "XXX miles per gallon!"

[2o6]

My question is...do electric cars present that much of a energy advantage over gasoline counterparts?  Most electric cars don't suffer from the weighty safety regulations gas cars have, and I'm sure automakers could make internal combustion engines much more efficient if they desired. 

Electric motors are very efficient. A LOT of fossil fuel engines lose energy as heat.

Besides, the "real" electric cars were safe and more comparable to a normal car, the GM EV1 for example.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Electric motors are 100% efficient. A LOT of fossil fuel engines lose energy as heat.

Besides, the "real" electric cars were safe and more comparable to a normal car, the GM EV1 for example.

Electric motors get hot, too. Dumbass.

[2o6]

Electric motors get hot, too. Dumbass.

Your Point?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Your Point?

Electric motors are 100% efficient. A LOT of fossil fuel engines lose energy as heat.

Besides, the "real" electric cars were safe and more comparable to a normal car, the GM EV1 for example.

Just stop talking

[2o6]

Just stop talking

A bit of an oxymoron, eh? I'll fix it.

[giant_mtb]

100% efficient. hahahahahahahaha

[CALL_911]

100% efficient. Seriously?

[2o6]

100% efficient. Seriously?

Exaggeration. Check the new post.

[CALL_911]

Exaggeration. Check the new post.

Carnot engine FTW?

Even that isn't 100% efficient.

[2o6]

Carnot engine FTW?

Even that isn't 100% efficient.

IT WAS JUST AN EXAGGERATION. 

[giant_mtb]

Exaggeration. Check the new post.

For some reason I do not believe you.

[2o6]

For some reason I do not believe you.

It was a ferudian slip. I really did think that Electric motors had close to 100% efficiency.

[CALL_911]

It was a ferudian slip. I really did think that Electric motors had close to 100% efficiency.

That wouldn't be a Freudian slip, then.

LETS MOVE ON!!!

[Soup DeVille]

Electric motors are very efficient. A LOT of fossil fuel engines lose energy as heat.

But where does electricity come from?

[giant_mtb]

It was a ferudian slip. I really did think that Electric motors had close to 100% efficiency.

So it wasn't an exaggeration...nor is that a "ferudian" slip. hahahaha

[Soup DeVille]

Carnot engine FTW?

Even that isn't 100% efficient.

An electric motor is not a heat engine as regarded thermodynamically, so that comparison is moot, even if your thinking is right.

[Soup DeVille]

It was a ferudian slip. I really did think that Electric motors had close to 100% efficiency.

They do. 85-90% efficiency ratings are not uncommon. But, electricity does not grow on trees, nor can we dig it out of the ground.

[Soup DeVille]

Well they are considering making the electric cars intelligent enough that they actually communicate with the power gride, so that the cars know how much power they can draw or even swap back into the gride during peak usage. So it would not be to difficult to add theft protection. For sure what ever they come up with will be beaten, but it is another layer the thief has to override.

Under what conditions would an electric car create energy and swap it back into the grid?

[Eye of the Tiger]

But where does electricity come from?

Earth! Fire! Wind! Water! Heart! GO PLANET!

[MrH]

Under what conditions would an electric car create energy and swap it back into the grid?

I was wondering the same thing.  Maybe if you live at the top of a biiiiig hill.  And your drive to work consists of just getting into your electric car, and coast down the hill using regenerative braking the whole way.  You put that energy back into the grid while you're at work before lunch.  After lunch, you take that energy back out of the grid to power your car back up the hill.

[MrH]

Earth! Fire! Wind! Water! Heart! GO PLANET!

If only electricity was made by a blue skinned guy with a teal mullet...

That'd be awesome.

[Cookie Monster]

Just stop talking

hehehehehe

[Galaxy]

Under what conditions would an electric car create energy and swap it back into the grid?

I never said it would create energy. What is being discussed is that energy stored in the battery could be fed back into the net during peak use so that utilities need not fire up back up resources like natrual gas feed turbines as often.