Should you "aim"...screw it, has turned into the cyclist and cager thread

[Rupert]

Pennsylvanians have similar laws.  That's why that neanderthal Steelers QB faceplanted when he crashed his Harley.  Over 21 and 2 years of licensed riding exempts you from wearing a helmet. 

I'd be okay with cyclists adhering to the same helmet laws as motorcyclists.

Like I said, I'm a reasonable man.  I like bikes, I think more people should ride them when possible.  I think not so long ago I said that I supported incentivizing using bikes as commuter vehicles.  I am just unsatisfied with current cyclists, cyclists' attitudes, and the way cyclists use the road.  Share the road goes both ways, and I see none of that reciprocity from any of the cyclists neither here, nor in practice.  Well, that's not true.  Giant seemed to try to be courteous, and he was ostracized for it, reinforcing my prejudices against cyclists. 

Everything you've ever said about bikes, except just now, does not support that. I think you need to ride a bike as your main source of transportation for a few months, then get back to us. Of course, I've suggested that before, and you made some idiotic comment about bikes being fro six year olds.

[AutobahnSHO]

It's not about crimes committed using bikes, it's about crimes committed by cyclists.  A cyclist decides to run red lights or stop signs, then he or she has a license and can be penalized more than financially.  Why should it cost that much?  Cyclist licensing would go through the same DMV/DOT as motor licensing, and training would dealt with the same groups that do driver training.  Optional training, but much like a motor license, a written test will be required and based on the road laws. 

M2005 is a Snell rating, so that covers that.  And yes, I'm morally opposed to helmet laws (and seatbelt laws), but if motorcyclists are going to be subjected to it, then so should cyclists. 

But seriously as much as cyclists brag about jumping over curbs and being able to outrun cops, how realistic is that?
If a cyclist blew a stop sign and had blue/reds behind him/her, I'm sure the cop could catch the biker, so no need to write down a tag number and whatever.

Besides, according to your first list, they'd be licensed anyway, so that would go on the paperwork- if they don't have their license they'd have have the bike impounded.

The problem with your entie theory is that most would just skip ever retrieving their bike: and you're not going to jail 10-15yr olds because they were riding illegally. Seriously your idea is nutz in that regard.

As far as requiring "rider's training"- I'm all for it. A lot of kids don't get the training mine are. It would also be a mandatory part of driver's ed, so that drivers know the rules for bikes, with an additional little "how to maneuver around bikes" 5-minute lesson.
(In Germany the 100 question written multiple-guess test US military members take had 10-20 "right of way" questions involving intersections with and without stop signs/lights- bike and horses were on several scenarios.)

Your helmet idea is a no-go, it's unreasonable, too expensive, and unwieldy. A cyclist needs more peripheral vision than a motorcyclist. (Of course your solution might be to mandate mirrors, ok but you're now requiring another bazillion tax dollars for bike safety regulations and inspections.)

Any bike or any car which moves will eventually cause someone to get hurt/ killed. (Bikers get killed occasionally in non-car related accidents.) You're just shooting the odds. Imposing a 20mph speed limit on all vehicles would probably bring the death toll WAY down to almost 0%. But it's not practical.
-So how much practical vs. safety vs. government regulation do you want?

[r0tor]

all bikes operated on the road should also have to undergo mandatory state safety inspections just like cars and motorcycles... afterall, while that cyclist is "rightfully" using up a lane of traffic, i don't need his wheel to fall off, him fall, and then me get sued for running over his ass...

[AutobahnSHO]

Ok so in Maryland it gets inspected ONCE- when you buy it. And new cars are exempt.
Some states (WY, Georgia?) don't even have car inspections.

Great idea.

[r0tor]

Ok so in Maryland it gets inspected ONCE- when you buy it. And new cars are exempt.
Some states (WY, Georgia?) don't even have car inspections.

Great idea.

PA needs an inspection every year... screw you PA bike riders 

[NomisR]

4- Bikes already do. We ride to the far right as safe as it is to do so. That allows cars to pass, even in NO PASSING zones, as long as it's safe. If it's not safe then the Car needs to obey the law and Not Pass.

Yeah, but a lot of people here are suggesting that the cyclists ride on the while line even if there's a huge shoulder zone and is safe to do so and they would be holding traffic by doing so.  Go back 10+ pages. 

And again, majority of the bike riders, at least in CA ride like assholes anyways.  You have these assholes riding up a one way mountain road against traffic and then proceed to yell at cars driving down the road.  And they would be breaking all sorts of law because they do not believe it applies to them.  Maybe YOU GUYS don't do it.. but others certainly do.  That's what my and a lot of the other people's problems are.  That's why people want it to be either one way or the other, you can't be allowed to choose your own rules to follow or these asshole would ruin the road for all of us.

[Rupert]

all bikes operated on the road should also have to undergo mandatory state safety inspections just like cars and motorcycles... afterall, while that cyclist is "rightfully" using up a lane of traffic, i don't need his wheel to fall off, him fall, and then me get sued for running over his ass...

I've never had to subject any of my cars to a safety inspection. That's Oregon, Washington, and Idaho.

[Tave]

Obviously, bikes don't need wipers. Otherwise, it's illegal to ride a bike at night without lights, just like for a car. Fool.

Bicycles ARE required to have a front white light and flashing red rear light for use on a roadway. Please know what you're talking about before you post, Raza.

I don't think that's true for all states. I think everywhere requires reflectors for night riding, but in some places I think the lights are only a (strong) suggestion.

[r0tor]

lights and turn signals are required here for motocycles... should be the same for all cycles

[bing_oh]

lights and turn signals are required here for motocycles... should be the same for all cycles

You're supposed to signal when turning and stopping on a bicycle, too...not as law but as a common courtesy and good way to warn the guy controlling several tons of steel behind you what you're doing so he doesn't run you over. Hand signals, as opposed to lighted turn signals,  are still legal around here in all vehicles. Most people don't know them anymore and practically nobody uses them, but that's a different story.

[r0tor]

I can't pa a PA state inspection for a car or a motorcycle without functioning turnsignals... bicycles should be the same to drive on a road

[Tave]

Most people don't know them anymore and practically nobody uses them, but that's a different story.

I do! I do!

My roomate licensed his little 250 quad for public roads. It had a break light but no turn signals so we had to use hand signals.

It took awhile to get used to; I would always downshift, clutch-out to free my hand for the signal, and leave some nice skidmarks if I wasn't paying attention.


But I'm glad I made my mistakes on it before I tried doing that on a motorbike.

[bing_oh]

I can't pa a PA state inspection for a car or a motorcycle without functioning turnsignals... bicycles should be the same to drive on a road

That's gonna be a little difficult considering that most bicycles don't have the electrical systems and controls necessary for turn signals.

[Eye of the Tiger]

That's gonna be a little difficult considering that most bicycles don't have the electrical systems and controls necessary for turn signals.

When I was about 6 years old, I had a 16" Murray BMX with turn signals. It just took 2 C batteries. 

[bing_oh]

When I was about 6 years old, I had a 16" Murray BMX with turn signals. It just took 2 C batteries. 

And I'm sure you looked very cute with them on your bike with your Strawberry Shortcake basket and My Little Kitty helmet...

[Eye of the Tiger]

And I'm sure you looked very cute with them on your bike with your Strawberry Shortcake basket and My Little Kitty helmet...

Yeah, except nobody had ever heard of a "bicycle helmet" back then.

[Tave]

"There are many things that we can point to that proof that the human being is not smart. The helmet is my personal favorite. The fact that we had to invent the helmet. Now why did we invent the helmet? Well, because we were participating in many activities that were cracking our heads. We looked at the situation. We chose not to avoid these activities, but to just make little plastic hats so that we can continue our head-cracking lifestyles.

The only thing dumber than the helmet is the helmet law, the point of which is to protect a brain that is functioning so poorly, it's not even trying to stop the cracking of the head that it's in..."

[JWC]

Don't even get me started on the stupidity of helmet laws, motorized bike or not, and the constant stream of "my helmet saved my life" bull on the bike forums.

[Rupert]

I take a lot of shit for rarely wearing a helmet. It's bloody annoying.

[Tave]

IIRC, bicycle helmets are designed primarily to protect children in stationary or near-stationary accidents.

[AutobahnSHO]

I would never make an adult wear one. I make my kids wear them, even in the bike trailer. I almost always wear one riding.

My mom freaked out the first time my friend and I returned to the house to grab ours. we were 17ish? and planned to drive up into the mountains to ride and thought better safe than sorry.

Same friend hit a car (who pulled in front of him) a couple years later and broke a leg and his helmet.
And one time broke a different helmet as he missiled off his bike head-first into a tree.
Head injuries 0      Helmets 2

I took my bike to my first year of college in Wyoming. My roommate said we should go riding- we just never got around to it together. Last week of school we got on the bikes and got about 2 blocks down the street, and playing around on some giant jumps built out of construction piles of dirt he went flying off the bike, broke his glasses, and got a nasty concussion. No helmet.

So I think they're a good idea- you never know when you'll need one.

[Tave]

I guess it depends on the type of helmet as well. I'd trust my $70 ski helmet a lot more than a run-of-the-mill bicycle helmet from Wally-world.


Edit: and obviously anything is better than nothing. If I had been wearing even a baseball cap last semester when I fell off my roomate's quad, I wouldn't have scraped my head nearly as bad as I did.

[Rupert]

All bike helmets are pretty much the same, in terms of safety. They all pass the same standards. (Except those crazy old school helmets that have the thick plastic shell).

[Cookie Monster]

IIRC, bicycle helmets are designed primarily to protect children in stationary or near-stationary accidents.

I feel safer wearing a helmet. I guess it's just a psychological thing.

[NomisR]

Helmet?

[Soup DeVille]

All bike helmets are pretty much the same, in terms of safety. They all pass the same standards. (Except those crazy old school helmets that have the thick plastic shell).

They all pass, but if bike helmets are anything like car helmets, some pass, and some blow the standards out of the water

[Rupert]

I'm not sure, but I don't think that is the case with bike helmets...

[AutobahnSHO]

Bike helmets are always a balance:

weight vs. crash absortion vs. fit vs. ventilation

The lighter and better ventilated means it's more comfortable and less of an impediment for the racer (and wannabes.)
The fit is critical, since it doesn't do ANY good if it doesn't hit the road before the noggin does.

And of course the whole purpose- crash absortion, should be the ONLY concern, but they ahve to balance it with the above..

[giant_mtb]

One time, I was loading my bike and appropriate gear into my trunk.  My mom called me back into the house quickly before I left, and I had yet to put my helmet in the trunk.  I closed the trunk and completely forgot about my helmet.  I got into my car, and backed up.  CRUNCH.  I had no idea what I had just done.  I backed up over my helmet.  The craziest part was that it did not get crushed...it simply broke up into pieces.  I was pretty impressed...and it gave me a reason to buy a new helmet.

[JWC]

I feel safer wearing a helmet. I guess it's just a psychological thing.

Probably is psychological.

A bike helmet is tested to withstand a 12mph crash or a 6-7 foot drop.

Any time a helmet is subject to either of those conditions, helmet manufacturers recommend replacing it.

I wear a bike helmet during the summer, not because I feel any safer or believe it will make me safer, but because I'm bald and the helmet's vents allow air to cool my head while protecting me from the sun.

Having suffered a concussion in a car crash years ago, I can attest that a helmet will not necessarily save you from a head injury.  Most bike riders who do crash with a helmet, believe that the helmet "saved" them and decline medical treatment.  I refused to be checked after the car crash because my head didn't impact anything and I believed that I was not injured.  I now know that the ringing in my ear was a tell-tell sign of a brain injury. It took three days before I sought treatment.  Had my injury been worse, those three days would have been too late.