Should you "aim"...screw it, has turned into the cyclist and cager thread

[Cookie Monster]

Pansy.

My roadbike scares me.

[Raza]

For all intents and purposes, some routes, such as hill rides--curved rural routes--etc, should be closed to cycling two Sundays per month...meaning they would be closed to cagers the other two Sundays.

State law, whether you like it or not, determines that bicycles (or in the case of PA--"pedacycles"),are vehicles just like cars, trucks, and motorcycles.  It is up to both cagers and cyclists to respect each other's  rights on the roads.   On the bike forums I visit, a cyclist just got a $250.00 ticket in Florida for running a stop sign.   This happens more than you may realize.  Seeing someone on a bike disregard road laws and decide that cyclists, as a group, fail to obey laws.  The guys you meet "taking" up to roads are riding according to the law...unless they are three abreast...most states do not allow that. 

Bike lanes, have proven to be as unsafe as as riding on sidewalks.  Reason being, car drivers tend to disregard riders in bike lanes and right hook them.  Why ride the middle of the lane?  Because, it discourages idiot car drivers from trying to squeeze 2 tons of metal between a rider and a car coming in the opposing lane.  When I ride, I ride the middle of the lane, when a car approaches from the rear, I move right as he passes, making sure that the required three feet of clearance is maintained. If another car is approaching from the opposite direction, I will not move to prevent the car behind me from trying something stupid.  Hell, you might say I'm doing the car driver a favor, because state law requires that the car driver maintain that amount of space and by action insures they do not get ticketed.

I"m all for cycling education, as I stated previously.  Casual riders are the ones dying in large numbers.  They ride against traffic, fail to obey the rules of the road,  and ride sidewalks and hit cars pulling out of driveways.  Unfortunately, the casual rider, the weekender, sees him/her self as a pedestrian instead of a vehicle and will ride a bike as if they are walking their dog.

BTW, the guy who got ticketed (see above) didn't have ID on him.  He had to provide name, address and fingerprints.

As I recall, they were riding four or even five across the lane, and refused to move over.  And these were as far from "casual" as you an get. 

And I never have good dealings with cyclists.  They're always acting like I'm intruding on their road, and not the other way around.

I even had a cyclist on another forum threaten me, should I attempt to angrily pass him when he's on the road.  I pointed out the fact that a 180 pound man with a helmet and Spandex wouldn't stand much a chance against 3000 pounds of metal, and all of a sudden I was the bad guy.

John, you may be the most responsible cyclist out there.  But the rest of your people don't belong on the road.

And like I said, if they want to be considered the same way as other motor vehicles, there should be a licensing process. 

[JWC]

Technically, there is a licensing process.  As in the guy who got the ticket for running the stop sign.  If a bicycle was not considered a road vehicle, the police officer couldn't have done anything to him.   

There are some a-holes out there and they have their own organization, Critical Mass.  Google it.  I hate CM riders and their attitudes.

[Cookie Monster]

As I recall, they were riding four or even five across the lane, and refused to move over.  And these were as far from "casual" as you an get. 

And I never have good dealings with cyclists.  They're always acting like I'm intruding on their road, and not the other way around.

I even had a cyclist on another forum threaten me, should I attempt to angrily pass him when he's on the road.  I pointed out the fact that a 180 pound man with a helmet and Spandex wouldn't stand much a chance against 3000 pounds of metal, and all of a sudden I was the bad guy.

John, you may be the most responsible cyclist out there.  But the rest of your people don't belong on the road.

And like I said, if they want to be considered the same way as other motor vehicles, there should be a licensing process. 

I've had people in cars yell at me for riding on the side of the road too.

And the number of careless drivers far outweighs the number of careless cyclists (because there are so many more drivers, but still). I've been almost hit many times by idiot drivers going way too fast, weaving in and out of the bike lane.

You can hate on irresponsible cyclists but it's kind of hypocritical when there are so many more idiotic, irresponsible drivers.

[Soup DeVille]

My roadbike scares me.

Everything scares you.

[NomisR]

I've had people in cars yell at me for riding on the side of the road too.

And the number of careless drivers far outweighs the number of careless cyclists (because there are so many more drivers, but still). I've been almost hit many times by idiot drivers going way too fast, weaving in and out of the bike lane.

You can hate on irresponsible cyclists but it's kind of hypocritical when there are so many more idiotic, irresponsible drivers.

# wise, yes, you'll probably have a lot more irresponsible drivers than cyclists.  But % wise, I think it's a wash. 

[Rupert]

My roadbike scares me.

Pansy.

[JWC]

As I recall, they were riding four or even five across the lane, and refused to move over.  And these were as far from "casual" as you an get. 

And I never have good dealings with cyclists.  They're always acting like I'm intruding on their road, and not the other way around.

I even had a cyclist on another forum threaten me, should I attempt to angrily pass him when he's on the road.  I pointed out the fact that a 180 pound man with a helmet and Spandex wouldn't stand much a chance against 3000 pounds of metal, and all of a sudden I was the bad guy.

John, you may be the most responsible cyclist out there.  But the rest of your people don't belong on the road.

And like I said, if they want to be considered the same way as other motor vehicles, there should be a licensing process. 

My experience is the opposite, but maybe it is the area I'm in.  Pickup trucks tend to buzz me...almost all have big tires and lift kits.  I did have some woman cut me off during a left hand turn.  I took the lane, gave a hand signal for the turn and she drove around me, passing me on a double yellow and an intersection.  All because she "owned" the road as a car driver.  Bitch probably didn't expect me to chase her down.  Same with the old guy who almost ran over me trying to pass, same exact scenario, but different intersection.  He managed to brake just before he ran me over.   That was the last time I road without a mirror.  It was unfortunate for him also that we were in a twenty-five mph area.  I was on my road bike and pulled up beside him and told him to roll his window down, then told him what I thought of his driving skills.

They have an organization for you too Raza, it is called RTS, Retake the Streets, if I remember right.  It is the same as Critical Mass, but for car drivers.  They take over the streets proclaiming their ownership of roads over cyclists and pedestrians. I think they proclaim the automobile another step of the evolutionary ladder.

[Cookie Monster]

I need me an MTB, even in the city.

[MX793]

For all intents and purposes, some routes, such as hill rides--curved rural routes--etc, should be closed to cycling two Sundays per month...meaning they would be closed to cagers the other two Sundays.

State law, whether you like it or not, determines that bicycles (or in the case of PA--"pedacycles"),are vehicles just like cars, trucks, and motorcycles.  It is up to both cagers and cyclists to respect each other's  rights on the roads.   On the bike forums I visit, a cyclist just got a $250.00 ticket in Florida for running a stop sign.   This happens more than you may realize.  Seeing someone on a bike disregard road laws and decide that cyclists, as a group, fail to obey laws.  The guys you meet "taking" up to roads are riding according to the law...unless they are three abreast...most states do not allow that. 

Bike lanes, have proven to be as unsafe as as riding on sidewalks.  Reason being, car drivers tend to disregard riders in bike lanes and right hook them.  Why ride the middle of the lane?  Because, it discourages idiot car drivers from trying to squeeze 2 tons of metal between a rider and a car coming in the opposing lane.  When I ride, I ride the middle of the lane, when a car approaches from the rear, I move right as he passes, making sure that the required three feet of clearance is maintained. If another car is approaching from the opposite direction, I will not move to prevent the car behind me from trying something stupid.  Hell, you might say I'm doing the car driver a favor, because state law requires that the car driver maintain that amount of space and by action insures they do not get ticketed.

I"m all for cycling education, as I stated previously.  Casual riders are the ones dying in large numbers.  They ride against traffic, fail to obey the rules of the road,  and ride sidewalks and hit cars pulling out of driveways.  Unfortunately, the casual rider, the weekender, sees him/her self as a pedestrian instead of a vehicle and will ride a bike as if they are walking their dog.

BTW, the guy who got ticketed (see above) didn't have ID on him.  He had to provide name, address and fingerprints.

Seems to me there are too many bicyclists around there who think they have the benefits of both vehicles and pedestrians.  They claim their right to the roadway as a vehicle, but seem to think they have the undisputed right-of-way of a pedestrian when it comes to traffic signals and stop signs.  I was driving down the road last year and saw a bicyclist (looked like a fairly serious cyclist, not some Joe on a bike) blow right through a redlight at a blind intersection in front of me.  By blind I mean there are trees and houses in the way such that you don't see another vehicle crossing the intersection until it is actually in the intersection.  Had I been a few seconds further down the road than I was, I would have had to slam on the brakes to miss them.

[Rupert]

No one will deny that there are stupid cyclists. But bikes aren't cars, and some of the rules that apply to cars don't fit bikes.

[hotrodalex]

I can think of one time when a frontal accident would have been much worse. I'm pretty sure I've told the story here so I'll just say that when it's icy and you're sliding in an older Saturn, a side impact is better (if you are going pretty slow). Plastic body panels don't dent or cave in.

[Rupert]

Did it make a *boink* sound?

[r0tor]

They have an organization for you too Raza, it is called RTS, Retake the Streets, if I remember right.  It is the same as Critical Mass, but for car drivers.  They take over the streets proclaiming their ownership of roads over cyclists and pedestrians. I think they proclaim the automobile another step of the evolutionary ladder.

When cyclists start paying taxes for highway maintenance, then I would start to consider such an organization of having an ounce of credibility.

[Rupert]

Bikes do almost no damage to roads.

[r0tor]

Bikes do almost no damage to roads.

mother nature does the most damage... bikers can help pay for the roads if they want to "own" them

[Raza]

My experience is the opposite, but maybe it is the area I'm in.  Pickup trucks tend to buzz me...almost all have big tires and lift kits.  I did have some woman cut me off during a left hand turn.  I took the lane, gave a hand signal for the turn and she drove around me, passing me on a double yellow and an intersection.  All because she "owned" the road as a car driver.  Bitch probably didn't expect me to chase her down.  Same with the old guy who almost ran over me trying to pass, same exact scenario, but different intersection.  He managed to brake just before he ran me over.   That was the last time I road without a mirror.  It was unfortunate for him also that we were in a twenty-five mph area.  I was on my road bike and pulled up beside him and told him to roll his window down, then told him what I thought of his driving skills.

They have an organization for you too Raza, it is called RTS, Retake the Streets, if I remember right.  It is the same as Critical Mass, but for car drivers.  They take over the streets proclaiming their ownership of roads over cyclists and pedestrians. I think they proclaim the automobile another step of the evolutionary ladder.

These RTS people sound a bit unreasonable.  Human beings are born with legs, and don't have to wear stupid pants to use them.   

[JWC]

When cyclists start paying taxes for highway maintenance, then I would start to consider such an organization of having an ounce of credibility.

Look, we allowed cars to ride our bike roads at the turn of the last century.  Turns out car drivers damaged our roads, so it became necessary for those doing the damage to maintain the roadways to the condition cyclists had become accustomed to.   

[r0tor]

Look, we allowed cars to ride our bike roads at the turn of the last century.  Turns out car drivers damaged our roads, so it became necessary for those doing the damage to maintain the roadways to the condition cyclists had become accustomed to.  

i'd like to see someone on a roadbike hit some of the potholes in PA from the freeze/thaw cycle... lol

[The Pirate]

i'd like to see someone on a roadbike hit some of the potholes in PA from the freeze/thaw cycle... lol

Any cyclist worth anything will be scanning out far enough to see it, and take appropriate action to avoid.  Or there's always a bunny hop.

[giant_mtb]

Why do roadies insist on riding on or as close to the fog line as possible?  In Michigan (at least in the UP), we have mostly 8 foot shoulders.  8 feet.  Yet they ride the white line.  It's annoying as hell.  I'm a biker (mountain, not road), and I ride as far to the right as possible...I'm not taking any chances.  And then there are the douche bags that ride on a busy 55-MPH road that HAS NO SHOULDER, just dirt...so these roadies are there riding IN the road, which has many blind curves, and people go 65, not 55.  It pisses me off.  They embarrass me. 

[S204STi]

Why do roadies insist on riding on or as close to the fog line as possible?  In Michigan (at least in the UP), we have mostly 8 foot shoulders.  8 feet.  Yet they ride the white line.  It's annoying as hell.  I'm a biker (mountain, not road), and I ride as far to the right as possible...I'm not taking any chances.  And then there are the douche bags that ride on a busy 55-MPH road that HAS NO SHOULDER, just dirt...so these roadies are there riding IN the road, which has many blind curves, and people go 65, not 55.  It pisses me off.  They embarrass me. 

I ride more or less on the line because any further and the road isn't swept clean of debris by passing traffic, which means ruining your tires on rocks and things for roadies.  Plus, if there is no shoulder are bikes just supposed to not bother?  There are some beautiful back roads around where I live and I have no problem waiting for just a moment for traffic to clear and pass them.  My car also doesn't take up the whole lane, so I have no problem just putting my left wheels on the center stripe and passing them like that at a reasonable speed.  It wouldn't bother me as a biker to get passed like that either.

[S204STi]

Look, we allowed cars to ride our bike roads at the turn of the last century.  Turns out car drivers damaged our roads, so it became necessary for those doing the damage to maintain the roadways to the condition cyclists had become accustomed to.  

[giant_mtb]

I ride more or less on the line because any further and the road isn't swept clean of debris by passing traffic, which means ruining your tires on rocks and things for roadies.  Plus, if there is no shoulder are bikes just supposed to not bother?  There are some beautiful back roads around where I live and I have no problem waiting for just a moment for traffic to clear and pass them.  My car also doesn't take up the whole lane, so I have no problem just putting my left wheels on the center stripe and passing them like that at a reasonable speed.  It wouldn't bother me as a biker to get passed like that either.

Swept clean of debris?  Jesus, I understand that your 87439-psi tires don't offer you the best ride out there, but for god's sake, the shoulder's there for a reason.  If I was a roadie, I'd probably ride close to the white line...but if a damn car was coming...I'd move over for a second to wait for a car to go by.  The thing that bothers me is when these douche bags don't move over when there's opposing traffic, especially when they have a gigantic shoulder for them to use.

[Soup DeVille]

Look, we allowed cars to ride our bike roads at the turn of the last century.  Turns out car drivers damaged our roads, so it became necessary for those doing the damage to maintain the roadways to the condition cyclists had become accustomed to.  

I think that's an issue you have to take up with the horses.

[NomisR]

I think that's an issue you have to take up with the horses.

I bet the horses were pissed for bikes taking up space on their roads.

[Rupert]

I ride more or less on the line because any further and the road isn't swept clean of debris by passing traffic, which means ruining your tires on rocks and things for roadies.  Plus, if there is no shoulder are bikes just supposed to not bother?  There are some beautiful back roads around where I live and I have no problem waiting for just a moment for traffic to clear and pass them.  My car also doesn't take up the whole lane, so I have no problem just putting my left wheels on the center stripe and passing them like that at a reasonable speed.  It wouldn't bother me as a biker to get passed like that either.

[280Z Turbo]

I don't brake for arrogant cyclists.

[S204STi]

Swept clean of debris?  Jesus, I understand that your 87439-psi tires don't offer you the best ride out there, but for god's sake, the shoulder's there for a reason.  If I was a roadie, I'd probably ride close to the white line...but if a damn car was coming...I'd move over for a second to wait for a car to go by.  The thing that bothers me is when these douche bags don't move over when there's opposing traffic, especially when they have a gigantic shoulder for them to use.

You try riding a road bike over gravelly asphalt and get back to me on how well that works out.  Or sandy asphalt for that matter; on a curve you could easily wipe out on that stuff.

[Raza]

I don't brake for arrogant cyclists.

Clothesline them with a hockey stick!  It's fun, and no one gets hurt.  Well, the cyclist gets hurt, but cyclists aren't people.