Report: US VW Polo will be much, much different from it's European Counterpart

[Galaxy]

Except for the Astra, which they brought over from Europe completely untouched (save for a Saturn badge) and nobody buys it.

Part of the problem was that they had to bring over what was probably the Astra's worst engine/transmission combination. They have a 6 speed auto, why did they not use that?

[ifcar]

Both the Yaris and the Smart get it done, and both are smaller than this.

What I love is that most of the mainstream manufacturers have cars for sale in other parts of the world that are small, safe and get great fuel mileage, which the government is requiring everyone to have. BUT the goverment itself won't allow those cars to be sold. If they are good enough for European and Japanese roads, they should be good enough for ours.

The Smart isn't cheap, and I don't know that the Yaris is actually smaller.

[Galaxy]

The Smart isn't cheap, and I don't know that the Yaris is actually smaller.

I think that fuel consumption not price is the main problem the Smart has. Why by a two seat car that uses more fuel then a Polo?

[93JC]

The 2.0 FSI (non turbo) has 150HP, same as the 2.5 I5.

The 2.5 I5 has 170 hp.

[93JC]

Part of the problem was that they had to bring over what was probably the Astra's worst engine/transmission combination. They have a 6 speed auto, why did they not use that?

If I remember correctly it's a 6-speed clutchless manual, not a true automatic. And as far as I know it's not available with the 1.8 L engine in Europe either.

I imagine they chose the 1.8 L engine simply because it has power similar to the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic, and the only engine already available with an automatic.

[TBR]

Both the Yaris and the Smart get it done, and both are smaller than this.

What I love is that most of the mainstream manufacturers have cars for sale in other parts of the world that are small, safe and get great fuel mileage, which the government is requiring everyone to have. BUT the goverment itself won't allow those cars to be sold. If they are good enough for European and Japanese roads, they should be good enough for ours.

That isn't really true. They cars could be adapted to American regulations (ie: Polo and Astra), the manufacturers simply don't want to go to the expense because not enough people would buy them. Of course now, with increased fuel prices (well, not right now), people are looking for nice, fuel-efficient cars, making the European sub-compacts North American viable.

In short, if Americans really wanted these cars, they would already be here. As a result, now that there is a growing demand, they are beginning to be sold. There is nothing about our regulations that makes it more difficult to build a small, fuel efficient car here than in Europe.

[ifcar]

I think that fuel consumption not price is the main problem the Smart has. Why by a two seat car that uses more fuel then a Polo?

Well, we don't get the Polo, making it harder to buy one instead of the Smart. And while the ForTwo's gas mileage isn't great by European standards, but it's the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid in the US.

However, it's $13,000 with air conditioning and nothing else, which is more than many "real" cars.

[Galaxy]

If I remember correctly it's a 6-speed clutchless manual, not a true automatic. And as far as I know it's not available with the 1.8 L engine in Europe either.

I imagine they chose the 1.8 L engine simply because it has power similar to the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic, and the only engine already available with an automatic.

There are 6 different transmissions offered in the Astra. A 6 speed auto, a 4 speed auto, a 5 and 6 speed manual, and finally clutchless versions of the 5 and 6 speed manuals.

As you noted the 4 speed auto is only offered on the 1.8 Ecotec. To my surprise the 6 speed auto is only offered on the 1.9 CDTI  , I just looked it up. The 5 speed semi auto comes with the 1.4 Twinport, and the 1.6 ECOTEC, with the 6 speed semi auto being offered only on the 1.3 CDTI.

What a mess.



The 180hp 1.6 ECOTEC would have made for a good american engine.

[ChrisV]

That isn't really true. They cars could be adapted to American regulations (ie: Polo and Astra), the manufacturers simply don't want to go to the expense because not enough people would buy them.

...because it costs more to meet our standards. You just reiterated my point. There wouldn't BE any extra cost of they could just bring them over in the form they already exist in. So therefore our regulations are getting in the way of bringing over the cheap economical small cars our government wants our manufacturers to sell here, that they already make and sell elswhere.

The Smart is supposed to be a premium boutique car. But the same concepot could be sold cheaper by a japanese or domestic manufacturer. Why can't we get kei cars as city cars? Because our regulations won't allow it, even though our new regulations are going to require cars LIKE them. So why not just get rid of the red tape and allow the small cars that our manufacturers already make elswhere?

[TBR]

...because it costs more to meet our standards. You just reiterated my point. There wouldn't BE any extra cost of they could just bring them over in the form they already exist in. So therefore our regulations are getting in the way of bringing over the cheap economical small cars our government wants our manufacturers to sell here, that they already make and sell elswhere.

It isn't because our standards inherently cost more, it's simply another set of standards to met. While I agree that standardized standards would be a good idea, our government is doing no more to keep these cars out of the USA than European governments are, other than not charging extraordinarily high gas taxes.

I guess what I am saying is that it would take coordination on the part of the EU, Asian countries, and the USA to make single world standards for emissions and crash performance, simply copying their standards would not be a good idea.

[2o6]

I'm confused how the Polo is "Too Small". This latest polo is 155" (old one is 154") long. The Yaris is 150" long.

[ChrisV]

Why would just allowing them to come over here not be a good idea? Are European and Japanese streets running red with the blood of all the people dying in those cars?

The point is, the government says that the manufacturers MUST make smaller more fuel efficient cars, and chastize the manufacturers for not selling them, then effectively say they can't sell the ones they already make. I find that fucking ironic.

[Madman]

This is a classic example of the United States once again being out-of-step with the rest of the world and how it negatively affects us.  The best thing for us as a country to do is sign on to the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations.  This treaty was initiated in 1958 to provide uniform standards for cars all around the world.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Forum_for_Harmonization_of_Vehicle_Regulations


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[cozmik]

It seems to me that VW understands what needs to be done to have mass appeal and access. The know it needs to be bigger, cause let's face it, we're fat asses in the US. And the realize it needs to be priced to compete with it's direct competitors, not the cars a size class up from it. I'm not saying I would buy one, but the general public would likely be more receptive.

[NomisR]

This is a classic example of the United States once again being out-of-step with the rest of the world and how it negatively affects us.  The best thing for us as a country to do is sign on to the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations.  This treaty was initiated in 1958 to provide uniform standards for cars all around the world.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Forum_for_Harmonization_of_Vehicle_Regulations


Cheers,
Madman of the People

In a way, not being a part of the harmonization programs is a way of protectionism policies.  It allows US cars to get by with less cost increase while it forces importers to comply with both US and their own regulation. 

[Madman]

In a way, not being a part of the harmonization programs is a way of protectionism policies.  It allows US cars to get by with less cost increase while it forces importers to comply with both US and their own regulation. 

It also works against US companies by making it a lot more difficult for GM and Ford to design "World" cars.  Just think of how much more competitive GM and Ford would be if only they could more easily sell their small, clever European cars here.  I'd be all over an Opel Corsa and Agila or a Ford Ka and Fiesta in a heartbeat.  Instead, all GM and Ford offer us is third-rate trash like the Aveo, Cobalt and US-Focus.  No thanks!

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[MX793]

It also works against US companies by making it a lot more difficult for GM and Ford to design "World" cars.  Just think of how much more competitive GM and Ford would be if only they could more easily sell their small, clever European cars here.  I'd be all over an Opel Corsa and Agila or a Ford Ka and Fiesta in a heartbeat.  Instead, all GM and Ford offer us is third-rate trash like the Aveo, Cobalt and US-Focus.  No thanks!

Cheers,
Madman of the People

There's no reason the current Euro Focus couldn't be meet US standards.  It's mechanical siblings the C30/S40 and Mazda3 are already sold in North America.  I really don't see the safety structure in the Focus being drastically different from its Volvo and Mazda counterparts.

[AltinD]

The 2.5 I5 has 170 hp.

It had 150HP when it was introduced

[AltinD]

There's no reason the current Euro Focus couldn't be meet US standards.  It's mechanical siblings the C30/S40 and Mazda3 are already sold in North America.  I really don't see the safety structure in the Focus being drastically different from its Volvo and Mazda counterparts.

It's not that the car cannot meet US the safety standards, which are no way better then the European ones. The only standards the car (as it is sold in EU) can't meet without redesign, are the 5MPH bumper test. You in NA concentrate on how much money will cost a repair in case of a crash, they in Europe concentrates more on how much force is transmitted to the occupant in case of a crash, therefore they sacrifice the bumpers for that.

[ifcar]

It's not that the car cannot meet US the safety standards, which are no way better then the European ones. The only standards the car (as it is sold in EU) can't meet without redesign, are the 5MPH bumper test. You in NA concentrate on how much money will cost a repair in case of a crash, they in Europe concentrates more on how much force is transmitted to the occupant in case of a crash, therefore they sacrifice the bumpers for that.

And for styling, of course.

There has been zero correlation in IIHS testing between good bumper performance and poor crash-test performance or vice-versa. Their argument has been that bumpers are purely decorative on many cars and don't actually offer protection from damage.