Jeep Grand Cherokee Revealed!

[the Teuton]

I hope you didn't forget about the Wrangler...

Two varieties of good beer will not save a bar that serves nothing else but Natty.

[Xer0]

If its cheap enough, I'm sure it would

[the Teuton]

Maybe if your clientele is all underage.

[Tave]

Two varieties of good beer will not save a bar that serves nothing else but Natty.

You guys are playing too fast with these analogies.

Jeep isn't going to sacrifice the Wrangler for the Compass and Patriot. If push comes to shove they'll scale-back to the core product(s) and soldier forward, exactly as they always have.


And the Wrangler 4-door is a smash success.


Jeep doesn't need 40 different micro-brews on tap--its patrons only want Budweiser.

[the Teuton]

But the bar (Chrysler) can't afford to make rent.

[Tave]

But the bar (Chrysler) can't afford to make rent.

Neither could Willys, Kaiser, or AMC. Yet here we are.

[cawimmer430]

And is significantly slower. The proper comparison to make is ML350 vs. ML320 CDI and the ML350 is cheaper and is still faster.

I wouldn't buy a CDI vehicle unless it actually made sense from a cost perspective, for most people the ML350 CDI (and GC CDI) are not going to make financial sense compared to the similar performing V6 models.

Who cares about which car is faster? The diesel ML is more efficient and if you drive a lot or just want good gas mileage then it makes sense for you. For the folks who often take long-distance trips the diesel ML will be the perfect car. Maybe your government should stop charging so much for diesel, especially since it doesn't cost as much to create from the refining process as gasoline.

[TBR]

Who cares about which car is faster? The diesel ML is more efficient and if you drive a lot or just want good gas mileage then it makes sense for you. For the folks who often take long-distance trips the diesel ML will be the perfect car. Maybe your government should stop charging so much for diesel, especially since it doesn't cost as much to create from the refining process as gasoline.

You poor little brainwashed European. Our government doesn't charge any extra for diesel, it is your government that levies absurd taxes on petrol.

The only reason diesel is slightly more expensive than gasoline is supply vs. demand. Truckers always need diesel, while many of the miles of gasoline consumers are discretionary and, therefore, easily cut back when the prices get high.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You poor little brainwashed European. Our government doesn't charge any extra for diesel, it is your government that levies absurd taxes on petrol.

The only reason diesel is slightly more expensive than gasoline is supply vs. demand. Truckers always need diesel, while many of the miles of gasoline consumers are discretionary and, therefore, easily cut back when the prices get high.

Actually, federal and state taxes on diesel are generally a few cents higher than gasoline. It's trivial, I know.

[cawimmer430]

You poor little brainwashed European. Our government doesn't charge any extra for diesel, it is your government that levies absurd taxes on petrol.

Our fuel taxes are purely environmental - and it works. People are more realistic about what they buy and need when it comes to cars.

Brainwashed? Diesel makes sense for people who drive long distances and need the gas mileage. Of course it depends on what car. For example a diesel engine from a financial point of view will make little sense in small economy cars. There are always regular comparisons in German car magazines between two similar products with a different engine (ex. Ford Fiesta gas vs Ford Fiesta diesel, BMW 320i vs BMW 320d, Mercedes ML350 vs Mercedes ML320 CDI etc.). In the smaller classes a diesel makes little sense if you don't go over a certain mileage per year. However, when talking about cars like the E-Class, S-Class and M-Class, the diesel car in these comparisons wins everytime on the basis of better gas mileage and thus cheaper running costs in the long run.

[93JC]

If you're buying a Mercedes-Benz the cost of fuel is a comparative pittance anyway.

[cawimmer430]

If you're buying a Mercedes-Benz the cost of fuel is a comparative pittance anyway.

Generally. But there are people who still want to get good fuel economy and MB has engines that can satisfy these people.

[93JC]

All I can say is no one who buys a Mercedes-Benz in North America, particularly a E-, S- or M-class, cares how comparatively good or bad the fuel economy is.

[cawimmer430]

All I can say is no one who buys a Mercedes-Benz in North America, particularly a E-, S- or M-class, cares how comparatively good or bad the fuel economy is.

Some folks do. I was amazed at the number of Mercedes owners who responded on the website of the International Herald Tribune of how they wished MB offered more diesel powered (and smaller gasoline engines) in the US. I think MB should at least offer a diesel C-Class and GLK to begin with and expand the diesel E-Class range as well. An S-Class diesel could also be interesting for the US together with the S400 Hybrid.

[the Teuton]

But think about it like this, Wimmer.  The 335d isn't marketed at anything but a 3 Series sports sedan that just happens to have a diesel in it.  It starts at over $40,000, and it's actually a little more expensive than the 335i.

People aren't buying it because it's more efficient; they're buying it here because it's a fashion statement.

[TBR]

Our fuel taxes are purely environmental - and it works. People are more realistic about what they buy and need when it comes to cars.

Brainwashed? Diesel makes sense for people who drive long distances and need the gas mileage. Of course it depends on what car. For example a diesel engine from a financial point of view will make little sense in small economy cars. There are always regular comparisons in German car magazines between two similar products with a different engine (ex. Ford Fiesta gas vs Ford Fiesta diesel, BMW 320i vs BMW 320d, Mercedes ML350 vs Mercedes ML320 CDI etc.). In the smaller classes a diesel makes little sense if you don't go over a certain mileage per year. However, when talking about cars like the E-Class, S-Class and M-Class, the diesel car in these comparisons wins everytime on the basis of better gas mileage and thus cheaper running costs in the long run.

The brainwashed was merely window-dressing, I didn't actually mean it.

But, here in the USA, our government isn't supposed to have the power to create an irrational market (though they have and continue to do so, despite that whole credit and housing crisis largely caused by their interference). That's what your gas/diesel taxes do over there.

[Autobahn]

All I can say is no one who buys a Mercedes-Benz in North America, particularly a E-, S- or M-class, cares how comparatively good or bad the fuel economy is.

I disagree with that statement, as there would be zero hybrid and Diesel buyers if the statement were true. And if people bought them as a fashion statement, they still buy them as a fashion statement that claims "I get great mileage" so I don't really get the difference. Personally I know at least one person in NA that bought an E 320 BlueTec because he frequently takes long trips and likes to get good mileage and doesn't have to fill up the car too often.

I know at least 10 people around here with $50k+ Diesel Bimmers / Mercs / Audis that actually enjoy getting great gas mileage and "the diesel punch" (which I think is something very subjective, but anyway people seem to notice and like it.)

Believe it or not, there are people who care more about the gas mileage in their cars than the mere power. And if you have ever driven a well-appointed luxury car on the highway versus a Cobalt that gets similar mileage, you might actually understand why people like those comfortable save cars. Getting  the mileage of a subcompact is a bonus.  I don't see anything wrong with that...