Pontiac done

[dazzleman]

My first car was a 1988 Bonneville.  It was huge, and like yours, not very sporty.  But I loved that car.  Mine was pretty trouble free, I sold it to a friend with over 200K miles, and he got another 2 or 3 years out of it.

Some GM cars of that era were pretty trouble free.  My friend had a 1988 Chevrolet Berretta, and it was a phenomenal car too -- lots of heavy mileage with very few problems.  It's a shame that GM got the reputation that it did.  Very sad to see what's happening to it.  When I was growing up, GM was the 'cool' car to have.

[The Pirate]

Read this on thought on another board, and it's pretty interesting (also probably discussed before), so I'll offer it here.

Anybody think it would have been wiser to kill off Buick?  Really, Chevrolet could offer versions of the Malibu and Impala to compensate for Buick's demise and some of those buyers would move up to Cadillac anyway, and push Pontiac's focus back to it's roots.  Pontiac had a lot of innovation back in the day. 

Buick may be a strong seller now, but it's clientele isn't getting any younger. 

[dazzleman]

Read this on thought on another board, and it's pretty interesting (also probably discussed before), so I'll offer it here.

Anybody think it would have been wiser to kill off Buick?  Really, Chevrolet could offer versions of the Malibu and Impala to compensate for Buick's demise and some of those buyers would move up to Cadillac anyway, and push Pontiac's focus back to it's roots.  Pontiac had a lot of innovation back in the day. 

Buick may be a strong seller now, but it's clientele isn't getting any younger. 

I think the reason GM kept Buick is because it's a big seller in China.  Without that, I think it would have been a better brand to kill off than Pontiac.

[The Pirate]

I think the reason GM kept Buick is because it's a big seller in China.  Without that, I think it would have been a better brand to kill off than Pontiac.

But we live in 'Murrica, dammit, not China! 

Yeah, that's a good point.  Still, it's sad, and I think (for the little that my opinion is worth) that, looking long-term, Pontiac is more viable than Buick.  Shame too, U.S. cars that I could likely afford in a few years are just now becoming desirable (mainly G8 and the GTO).

[Rich]

I had a Grand Prix as my first car... I really like the red interior lighting too.... this sucks

[ifcar]

I think the reason GM kept Buick is because it's a big seller in China.  Without that, I think it would have been a better brand to kill off than Pontiac.

They could have killed it in the US while keeping it in China. I'd say they chose Buick as the keeper because its most recent product was a success and it has others with decent potential in the pipeline, whereas the G8 flopped and there isn't a new game-changing Pontiac due out soon.

[MrH]

But we live in 'Murrica, dammit, not China! 

Yeah, that's a good point.  Still, it's sad, and I think (for the little that my opinion is worth) that, looking long-term, Pontiac is more viable than Buick.  Shame too, U.S. cars that I could likely afford in a few years are just now becoming desirable (mainly G8 and the GTO).

When has GM ever looked long term?

[The Pirate]

When has GM ever looked long term?

Good point.  But if there was ever a time to start, now would be it!

[MrH]

Good point.  But if there was ever a time to start, now would be it!

It'd be too little too late.

Man, GM sure has a way of repeating itself.

[2o6]

They could have killed it in the US while keeping it in China. I'd say they chose Buick as the keeper because its most recent product was a success and it has others with decent potential in the pipeline, whereas the G8 flopped and there isn't a new game-changing Pontiac due out soon.

Thing is, I'm not too sure how tethered together Buick US and Buick China are. Killing off one might collapse the other.

Read this on thought on another board, and it's pretty interesting (also probably discussed before), so I'll offer it here.

Anybody think it would have been wiser to kill off Buick?  Really, Chevrolet could offer versions of the Malibu and Impala to compensate for Buick's demise and some of those buyers would move up to Cadillac anyway, and push Pontiac's focus back to it's roots.  Pontiac had a lot of innovation back in the day. 

Buick may be a strong seller now, but it's clientele isn't getting any younger. 

I still don't. People forget that older people have MONEY, whereas young people don't. Cadillac is turning into the Sports-luxury to compete with the younger clientele, and not a lot of people like Cadillac anymore. Yeah, the driving enthusiasts are turned on by Cadillac's new stance, but overall the older people don't like it, and with the demise of the DTS older people are liking Cadillac even less.


Buick offers a supple, floaty and luxuriant ride that people were used to getting at Cadillac circa 1999. Buick should stick around as long as older people still want them.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Read this on thought on another board, and it's pretty interesting (also probably discussed before), so I'll offer it here.

Anybody think it would have been wiser to kill off Buick?  Really, Chevrolet could offer versions of the Malibu and Impala to compensate for Buick's demise and some of those buyers would move up to Cadillac anyway, and push Pontiac's focus back to it's roots.  Pontiac had a lot of innovation back in the day. 

Buick may be a strong seller now, but it's clientele isn't getting any younger. 

I would have taken that route. I would also sell some Saturn models as Pontiacs and get rid of the Toyota/Cobalt rebadges.

[68_427]

Buick should stick around as long as older people still want them.

I have a Buick.   

[the Teuton]

As someone who just went shopping for a new car, the choices came down between 2 Buicks and a Subaru.  I was not the one who made the decision for the Subaru this time, even though I was indeed the one who ended up purchasing it.  Honest.

As a "filler" car in the price range, we first toyed around with a Century.  I wanted to get the Century initially, as the 3100 is nearly indestructible and has gobs of torque.  It didn't happen.  The car had an aura of cheapness to it.  The next was a 1999ish Park Avenue.  I know my parents aren't exactly spring chickens, but they're not your typical old people either.  They shot it down immediately.

So in the end, they thought the import would be the best.  It didn't hurt that somehow my mom has become an enviro-freak over the last year and bought that zero-landfill schtick Subaru has been selling for the Legacy.  So we got that.

In saying this, my parents aren't Buick people, older as they may be, and will never be Buick people.  Buick has to reinvent its image for the next generation -- what Oldsmobile was trying to do -- and attract the younger, upwardly mobile set because they've completely lost the baby boomers.

[Eye of the Tiger]

As someone who just went shopping for a new car, the choices came down between 2 Buicks and a Subaru.  I was not the one who made the decision for the Subaru this time, even though I was indeed the one who ended up purchasing it.  Honest.

As a "filler" car in the price range, we first toyed around with a Century.  I wanted to get the Century initially, as the 3100 is nearly indestructible and has gobs of torque.  It didn't happen.  The car had an aura of cheapness to it.  The next was a 1999ish Park Avenue.  I know my parents aren't exactly spring chickens, but they're not your typical old people either.  They shot it down immediately.

So in the end, they thought the import would be the best.  It didn't hurt that somehow my mom has become an enviro-freak over the last year and bought that zero-landfill schtick Subaru has been selling for the Legacy.  So we got that.

In saying this, my parents aren't Buick people, older as they may be, and will never be Buick people.  Buick has to reinvent its image for the next generation -- what Oldsmobile was trying to do -- and attract the younger, upwardly mobile set because they've completely lost the baby boomers.

Gobs of torque? 

[68_427]

I've got a Century... wish it was the Regal.  I want the 3.8L racecar engine.

[the Teuton]

Gobs of torque? 

175 hp, 195 lb-ft versus I think (I don't know for sure) 137 hp, 135 lb-ft.

Yes, gobs or torque, relatively speaking.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I've got a Century... wish it was the Regal.  I want the 3.8L racecar engine.

No. Century FTW.

[Morris Minor]

This is a good first step. Now they need to chop:
Buick
Saturn
GMC
& Hummer

[YO]

... I've been saying it forever... GENERAL MOTORS needs to get it's act together or the whole company will be extinct.

.. on a positive note, this is the first GOOD move in the right direction...

[Schadenfreude]

What I do wonder is what this means for Holden/Opel since Saturn's reportedly done at the end of this year.  Isn't most of GM's engineering done by GM Europe and Australia?    If thats the case, GM may be done.

[565]

They could have killed it in the US while keeping it in China.

Buick only sells well in China because for some reason the Chinese think it's an upscale/high end brand in America (they used to think it was on par with Benz and BMW, but not since GM tried to milk that brand image for all it's worth with Buick badged Suzuki's).  Obviously this notion is very flawed, but the average Chinese doesn't have much understanding of the American market (actually most people of any country don't understand the foreign markets, case in point, Wimmer with Lexus). 

If GM kills off the America branch and only keeps the Chinese branch the Chinese are going to realize they are the only suckers still buying these cars.

Anyway I say good riddance to Pontiac.  Sure they had some decent cars, but there was no point to the brand anymore.  They were supposed the excitement branch, but it hardly made more exciting cars than the rest of GM.  The most exciting cars GM makes?  Chevy's line of Vettes.  The Solstice was a good fun car but Saturn got a copy too.  The G8 was basically pulled from Australian and could easily just be a Chevy.   

Like I said before, GM needs to have just Chevy and Cadillac, maybe a youth brand like Suzuki (or make something new).

[Nethead]

Pontiac's been in chemo since Pete Estes left there in the late 'Sixties.  Pontiac lost its soul a long time ago and no amount of re-badging was gonna bring that back. 

I think every GM line but Cadillac lost cred forever when they went to the common GM engines.  Cadillac is following suit with the demise of the Northstar, and Cadillac is now less distinct than it was before. 

Corporate anonymity brought down Pontiac, just as it did Oldsmobile.  Buick is as faceless as a discount clothing store mannikin, and will follow Olds & Pontiac unless the Chinese buy the brand and sever it physically from Government Motors.  GMC is in the unenviable position that either they must become the sole truck line of GM or they die the slow death as well--better start measuring for the dimensions of the casket now...

RIP, Chief.  I'm glad I can remember ye from times when...

[nickdrinkwater]

Who's next?

[the Teuton]

Who's next?

Saturn.

[Vinsanity]

I think every GM line but Cadillac lost cred forever when they went to the common GM engines.  Cadillac is following suit with the demise of the Northstar, and Cadillac is now less distinct than it was before. 

At least we still have the Sigma architecture still exclusive to the brand, if only because using it for the Camaro would have made it too expensive. That's still more than what Lincoln has to offer.

It's a shame they can't engineer upsized displacements for the Northstar, though. While competing V8's from Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti have steadily increased displacements and gone from the 250-276hp range to the 340+ range, the Northstar kept the exact same displacement since it debuted and gained only 25 hp in the 15 years since (295hp to 320 hp).

[the Teuton]

The supercharged Northstar really should be detuned to 400 hp or so and marketed as the comparable engine to the big boys from Germany a la what Jaguar is doing.

The LSA surpasses the supercharged Northstar by so much that it makes no sense to keep it as a "V" engine.  Also, while old folks on supplemented incomes may love the fact that their Northstars run on regular, that's doing nothing for Cadillac's image.  The engines should have been on premium the whole time.

Even MINI's NA 1.6 liter engine "runs on premium."

[Vinsanity]

Even MINI's NA 1.6 liter engine "runs on premium."

Which I think is extremely lame. If Corollas, Civics, and Focuseses can be economical yet more powerful on regular gas, then why the freaking devil does the weak-ass regular Mini engine have to use premium? Freaking BMW

[the Teuton]

Which I think is extremely lame. If Corollas, Civics, and Focuseses can be economical yet more powerful on regular gas, then why the freaking devil does the weak-ass regular Mini engine have to use premium? Freaking BMW

One of the lot attendants put regular in the MINI one time.  He didn't care, either.  It still ran completely fine.

I think it's more of an image thing than anything else.

[Vinsanity]

I think it's more of an image thing than anything else.

wow, that's even more lame than I thought.

I shamefully admit to putting 89 octane in the Maxima I rented, but I was honestly convinced that the car would run better on it than regular. There's no reason to me that a tiny 1.6 with 118 hp would even fancy the premium stuff. The NA Miata made the same amount of power from the same displacement 20 years ago on regular. Anyone who thinks this engine "requiring" premium somehow makes it superior deserves to have their money ripped off at the fuel pump as well as at the showroom.

[MrH]

The supercharged Northstar really should be detuned to 400 hp or so and marketed as the comparable engine to the big boys from Germany a la what Jaguar is doing.

The LSA surpasses the supercharged Northstar by so much that it makes no sense to keep it as a "V" engine.  Also, while old folks on supplemented incomes may love the fact that their Northstars run on regular, that's doing nothing for Cadillac's image.  The engines should have been on premium the whole time.

Even MINI's NA 1.6 liter engine "runs on premium."

If you think the Northstar running on regular killed its image, you're delusional.  No one cares that much.