Pontiac done

[the Teuton]

If you think the Northstar running on regular killed its image, you're delusional.  No one cares that much.

Do I think it killed it?  No.  Do I think it hurt the "premium" image a little?  Yes.

[Laconian]

The "premium" image was already obliterated by the time the Northstar engineers even put pen to paper.

[hotrodalex]

The octane rating it uses has nothing to do with image.

[93JC]

Anyone who thinks this engine "requiring" premium somehow makes it superior deserves to have their money ripped off at the fuel pump as well as at the showroom.

No engine requires premium.

[Vinsanity]

No engine requires premium.

I don't know if I would go that far, either. I've heard of guys who destroyed the cylinder heads (?) of the F20 engines in their S2000's from running that motor on 87 octane gas.

[Eye of the Tiger]

No engine requires premium.

No engine requires gasoline.

[Vinsanity]

No engine requires gasoline.

I'll buy you a bottle of Bacardi 151 to run directly into the fuel injectors of your Geo Metro just to see what would happen and put it on Youtube.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'll buy you a bottle of Bacardi 151 to run directly into the fuel injectors of your Geo Metro just to see what would happen and put it on Youtube.

I've never owned a Geo in my life, let alone some little shitbox Metro   

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I've never owned a Geo in my life, let alone some little shitbox Metro   

[Madman]

Pontiac will join Oldsmobile, Geo, Asuna, Bedford, Fisher Body, Statesman, Acadian/Beaumont, Yellow Coach, Oakland, LaSalle, Marquette, Viking, McLaughlin/McLaughlin-Buick, Elmore, Rapid, Reliance, Samson Tractor, Little and Cartercar in the pantheon of dead GM brands. Like those others, It had outlived it's usefulness.

Pontiac has no unique products of it's own, apart from the G8 which is simply a Holden Commodore imported from Australia. This car could continue rebadged as either a Chevrolet or a Buick. Since Chevy's portfolio is already pretty full, I say give it to Buick and revive the Wildcat name. Buick could well use a bit of performance to sex-up it's old geezer image.  The G6 could also live on as a Buick Skylark.


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[ifcar]

You forgot to mention that it will join Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. Without a buyer, they're gone after the 2009 model year. Pontiac will have 2010s.

[93JC]

The G6 could also live on as a Buick Skylark.

Redundant, since a new LaCrosse/Allure is due next year.

[ifcar]

Redundant, since a new LaCrosse/Allure is due next year.

And then the new Regal in or around 2012.

[Madman]

You forgot to mention that it will join Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. Without a buyer, they're gone after the 2009 model year. Pontiac will have 2010s.

I didn't mention those because they're not "officially" dead yet.  There's always a remote chance Saturn, Saab and Hummer could still find buyers and remain in business.  The plug has already been pulled on Pontiac.  Nothing can save it now.

R.I.P. Pontiac
1926-2010


Madman of the People

[Madman]

Redundant, since a new LaCrosse/Allure is due next year.

The G6 is smaller than the LaCrosse/Allure.  Plus, it comes as a coupe and a cabrio, which Buick doesn't have in it's current model range.  Slap a chrome grille on it and call it a Skylark.  I think it's a good fit for Buick.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Laconian]

RIDE, PONTIAC RIDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0IIoYkJaM&feature=related&fmt=18

(pours out a bit of coffee in mourning)

[Vinsanity]

The G6 is smaller than the LaCrosse/Allure.  Plus, it comes as a coupe and a cabrio, which Buick doesn't have in it's current model range.  Slap a chrome grille on it and call it a Skylark.  I think it's a good fit for Buick.

The retractable hardtop would be the only one worthwhile for Buick to adopt into its lineup. The sedan is redundant and the fixed-roof coupe is a slow seller that doesn't fit in with the other Buicks. Like the hardtop Chrysler Sebring coupe that existed once upon a time for some reason.

[ifcar]

The current G6 would be in need of a redesign before it could come out as a Buick anyway; it dates to 2006.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Go Buick!

[SVT666]

Pontiac G8 to live on

The Pontiac G8 will end its short U.S. production run by the end of this year, but the Holden Commodore could live on in the U.S. under the Chevrolet nameplate. General Motors is reportedly mulling a plan that could see up to 40,000 Chevy-badged Commodores sold in the U.S. to various police departments.

According to Australia?s GoAuto, GM is contemplating bolstering Holden?s export program by marketing a Chevy-badged commodore in the U.S. market for police use. The plan would also call for the Chevy Commodore to be sold to police units in Canada, the UK and the Middle East.

Holden stands to lose as much as $760 million from the loss of G8 exports, but that sum could be more than made up for by the export of a Chevrolet Commodore. Thanks to the massive wear and tear put on police vehicles every year, GM would be able to realistically sell 40,000 units ? or more ? of the Commodore police vehicle around the globe annually. Sales would initially start with the Los Angeles police department but would spread to other departments, thanks in large part to the pending death of the Ford Crown Victoria ? the current police cruiser of choice. Ford currently sells about 60,000 units of the fleet-only Crown Vic to police departments around the country.

The transformation wouldn?t be difficult, either. GM currently sells the Commodore as the Chevy Lumina in the Middle East and South Africa, so the tooling and parts are already in place to give the Commodore a Chevy face.

Moreover, GoAuto speculates that if GM does green light the Chevy Commodore for police use, a retail version could come on line in 2012 to replace the Chevy Impala. However, with the government and the UAW set to take a controlling stake in GM, we won?t hold our breath for a Chevy-badged, Australian-made version of the performance sedan.

[Vinsanity]

I see how selling a Chevy Commodore would be easier since they already sell them in the Middle East, but I like Madman's Buick Wildcat idea better. It would even be a nice nod to those cool 1950's Buick cop cars.

[S204STi]

No engine requires premium.

[GoCougs]

I see a lot of optimism in that G8 piece.

Not only are fleet sales low margin, there is significant loyalty and inertia to that dinosaur the CV, plus there is already stiff competition from the Charger.

Further, the transformation would be difficult. It takes significant effort to rebadge a car, and by the time it's completed the G8 would be long in the tooth WRT to a retail vehicle.

We will not see a rebadged G8 in the US.

[S204STi]

At least we still have the Sigma architecture still exclusive to the brand, if only because using it for the Camaro would have made it too expensive. That's still more than what Lincoln has to offer.

It's a shame they can't engineer upsized displacements for the Northstar, though. While competing V8's from Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti have steadily increased displacements and gone from the 250-276hp range to the 340+ range, the Northstar kept the exact same displacement since it debuted and gained only 25 hp in the 15 years since (295hp to 320 hp).

I think it actually grew from 4.0 to 4.6 (the 4.0 being found only in some Oldsmobiles).

It's honestly just not a great design.  I hate them.

[2o6]

I see a lot of optimism in that G8 piece.

Not only are fleet sales low margin, there is significant loyalty and inertia to that dinosaur the CV, plus there is already stiff competition from the Charger.

Further, the transformation would be difficult. It takes significant effort to rebadge a car, and by the time it's completed the G8 would be long in the tooth WRT to a retail vehicle.

We will not see a rebadged G8 in the US.

They literally would not have to do a single thing.

[GoCougs]

They literally would not have to do a single thing.

Even if the product doesn't need one iota of engineering to meet US safety and emissions regs (which it most likely would), it takes significant time and legal and financial work (referred to as "dispensation") to be able to sell products across national borders. There are many legal and political stakeholders that must be satisfied to do such a thing.

[93JC]

I think it actually grew from 4.0 to 4.6 (the 4.0 being found only in some Oldsmobiles).

The Northstar was introduced as 4.6 L. The Aurora V8, which shared a whole bunch of parts but was only available in the Oldsmobile Aurora, was 4.0 L. The only other Northstar variant is the supercharged 4.4 L in the STS-V and XLR-V.

Oh, and I suppose you could get the Aurora V8 in the Shelby Series 1, but that's quite low-production. I'm not even sure it counts.

The Aurora V8 was also used in IRL and LMP racing.

And there was the 3.5 L V6 used in the Aurora and Intrigue which also shared some parts with the Northstar.

[the Teuton]

The Northstar was introduced as 4.6 L. The Aurora V8, which shared a whole bunch of parts but was only available in the Oldsmobile Aurora, was 4.0 L. The only other Northstar variant is the supercharged 4.4 L in the STS-V and XLR-V.

Oh, and I suppose you could get the Aurora V8 in the Shelby Series 1, but that's quite low-production. I'm not even sure it counts.

The Aurora V8 was also used in IRL and LMP racing.

And there was the 3.5 L V6 used in the Aurora and Intrigue which also shared some parts with the Northstar.

Why did GM ever put the ShortStar or the DOHC 3.4 out of production and finally, just finally introduce a good family of DOHC engines for its mainstream offerings?

Ford was using Duratec DOHCs in 1995.

[S204STi]

The Northstar was introduced as 4.6 L. The Aurora V8, which shared a whole bunch of parts but was only available in the Oldsmobile Aurora, was 4.0 L. The only other Northstar variant is the supercharged 4.4 L in the STS-V and XLR-V.

Oh, and I suppose you could get the Aurora V8 in the Shelby Series 1, but that's quite low-production. I'm not even sure it counts.

The Aurora V8 was also used in IRL and LMP racing.

And there was the 3.5 L V6 used in the Aurora and Intrigue which also shared some parts with the Northstar.

I wasn't sure if the Aurora V8 was mechanically identical to the Deathstar or not.

[SVT666]

No engine requires premium.

The SVT Focus motor REQUIRES premium.  It surprised me when I saw it, because any premium fuel engine I've ever seen is Premium Recommended.  My gas gauge ssays "Premium Fuel Only", and my gas cap and the owner's manual says "Premium Required".