Grrr, I hate car shopping in this area (rant)

[MX793]

So as I've said in other threads, I'd really like to get a new car this year.  The Hyundai Genesis Coupe is really high on my interest list.

A couple of weeks ago, I was passing by the local Hyundai dealer and see they have a Gen Coupe out front.  I stop to take a look at it and, sadly, it's a slushie (and a 4 banger).  I chat with the salesperson and he opens it up and lets me sit in it and take a look.  Overall, I was pretty impressed with what I saw.  I asked if they were going to get a 6MT version anytime soon and he said they had one coming in sometime in the next couple of weeks.  I said I'll pop back in sometime, take the guy's card and go on my way.

Flash to today.  It's decent weather so I stop by and see that they have a different Gen Coupe on the lot.  I take a peek inside and it's got a 6-speed.  This one was also a 4-banger and I'm really more interested in the V6, but I'd still be interested in a spin in the 4 cylinder version just to get a feel for handling and ride and ergos and all that.  A salesperson comes out to greet me and I ask for the person I spoke to a couple of weeks ago.  Salesperson #2 says that salesperson #1 has the day off, but that SP#1 was just there a few minutes ago and would no doubt be happy to help me if he was still there or not too far off down the road.  SP#2 calls SP#1 and gets voicemail.  While waiting for SP#1 to call back, I chat a bit with SP#2 and inquire if they were going to be getting a V6 manual in anytime soon.  Then SP#1 calls back, says he's busy and tells SP#2 to help me out.  So the conversation went like this:

SP#2:  "So is there something I can help you with?"
Me:  "I'd love a test drive in this car."
SP#2:  "um, sorry, that's one thing I can't help you.  We're not letting people test drive unless they intend to buy this very car."

[I took that basically to mean, "you can test drive it once we've talked deal and everything short of signing the paperwork and a down payment being made is set", my unwittingly inquiring about a V6 probably also killed my shot at a test drive.]

SP#2:  "You see, we had a Genesis sedan that we weren't able to sell because we let anybody wanting a test drive drive it and before we knew it there were 600 miles on the clock and nobody wanted to buy it because of the mileage."

Now, I can understand not wanting to put a ton of miles on the merchandise, but how am I supposed to know if I want to buy a car if I can't take a test drive in one unless it's the exact car I intend to buy?  What are the odds that they'll have the exact car I want on the lot?  To date, I've only encountered one instance where a dealer had the car I'd want on the lot.  Generally, they're either equipped with the wrong transmission, equipped with stuff I don't want and don't want to pay for, not equipped with stuff I really do want, or a color I wouldn't want (although I'm reasonably flexible on color).

[S204STi]

I guess they want you to take your business elsewhere!

[CALL_911]

From what I remember, your list includes:
-Genesis Coupe
-128i
-Mustang GT
-370Z
-WRX

Am I right?

[the Teuton]

This dealer obviously doesn't know how demo cars work.

You keep a few basic options out there, say the most popular/sought after models, and you keep them until about 5,000 miles in which case you sell them for a "demo discount" (see how this works).

For instance, I would imagine the V6 auto and the I4 stick will be the most popular Genesis Coupes, so I'd keep them as demos.

Your dealer sounds like a bunch of nimrods.  I would have told them they just lost a sale because you were going to the other Hyundai dealer in the next city.

[MX793]

I guess they want you to take your business elsewhere!

Elsewhere is about 60 miles away, which isn't really convenient just for a test drive when I happen to have some free time.

[the Teuton]

Elsewhere is about 60 miles away, which isn't really convenient just for a test drive when I happen to have some free time.

Service is an intangible that comes with buying a car.  If they cannot give you that part of the car that is supposed to come with it, it might not be worth it to get one.

[MX793]

From what I remember, your list includes:
-Genesis Coupe
-128i
-Mustang GT
-370Z
-WRX

Am I right?

370Z is out.  Don't want to go over $30K and I'd like a back seat (even if it's not huge) and a decent trunk.  But otherwise, yes.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You don't live near Ifcar, do you?

[MX793]

This dealer obviously doesn't know how demo cars work.

You keep a few basic options out there, say the most popular/sought after models, and you keep them until about 5,000 miles in which case you sell them for a "demo discount" (see how this works).

For instance, I would imagine the V6 auto and the I4 stick will be the most popular Genesis Coupes, so I'd keep them as demos.

Your dealer sounds like a bunch of nimrods.  I would have told them they just lost a sale because you were going to the other Hyundai dealer in the next city.

According to the salesperson (and I take this with a grain of salt since so many of them are full of crap), demand is so high for the Gen Coupe that dealers aren't even able to specify the exact trim, color or equipment they get.  Basically, they put in a bid for a Gen Coupe and they get what they get when their turn to get a car comes around.  The car I looked at today actually came from a dealer in another state.  They had to trade the I4-auto version they had a couple of weeks ago to get the I4-MT one they had today since they had a lot of inquiries for a manual and weren't able to get a stick version from Hyundai, and the dealer they traded with had someone wanting an automatic and couldn't get an auto version from Hyundai.

[MX793]

Service is an intangible that comes with buying a car.  If they cannot give you that part of the car that is supposed to come with it, it might not be worth it to get one.

Well, I'll be moving at some point this summer or fall, putting me closer to the next nearest Hyundai dealer (sales tax is also lower), but the weather is nice and I thought I'd get a jump on my car shopping and try to narrow my list.  Hard to do when the dealers either don't stock any examples of the cars I'm interested in (WRX, 128i) or won't give test drives when they do.

[the Teuton]

According to the salesperson (and I take this with a grain of salt since so many of them are full of crap), demand is so high for the Gen Coupe that dealers aren't even able to specify the exact trim, color or equipment they get.  Basically, they put in a bid for a Gen Coupe and they get what they get when their turn to get a car comes around.  The car I looked at today actually came from a dealer in another state.  They had to trade the I4-auto version they had a couple of weeks ago to get the I4-MT one they had today since they had a lot of inquiries for a manual and weren't able to get a stick version from Hyundai, and the dealer they traded with had someone wanting an automatic and couldn't get an auto version from Hyundai.

That trading thing is common.  I remember our dealer traded for a car in Missouri (I'm in Pa.) one time.  You know that they have a network of every unsold Hyundai in America right now, right?  They catalog all of them in an online dealer database, so technically if you find a V6 Track 6MT in your favorite color in some other state, they can get it for you.  They have the power, and chances are they know about it before you do.

[MX793]

That trading thing is common.  I remember our dealer traded for a car in Missouri (I'm in Pa.) one time.  You know that they have a network of every unsold Hyundai in America right now, right?  They catalog all of them in an online dealer database, so technically if you find a V6 Track 6MT in your favorite color in some other state, they can get it for you.  They have the power, and chances are they know about it before you do.

Yes, they could, but they'd also probably want money down before they'd be willing to bring that car in (and I won't put money down on a car unless I've had a chance to drive an example) and they probably wouldn't be too apt to deal on price.

[S204STi]

Yes, they could, but they'd also probably want money down before they'd be willing to bring that car in (and I won't put money down on a car unless I've had a chance to drive an example) and they probably wouldn't be too apt to deal on price.

My car was a dealer trade, and they gave me the same deal on it that they would have given me for any car on the lot.

[MX793]

My car was a dealer trade, and they gave me the same deal on it that they would have given me for any car on the lot.

But did they expect money down before they'd do the trade?  And I take it you'd had the chance to at least test drive a version of the car you wanted.

[nickdrinkwater]

Sounds like a ridiculous situation if you can't get to test drive the car you want.  Over here you can often contact the manufacturer directly and book a 24 hr/weekend test drive of the model you want.

[YO]

well that's not entirely true. We had the same problem with the S2000, 99 Odyssey, MDX and Pilot. The manufacturer gives you ZERO assistance at most makes for demo use.  When you have a hot product, it's the exact time that you want to maximize you profit.

HOnda fixed this problem by allocating a "corporate" car which the dealer couldn't sell without major penalty (allocation) .  After 6 months the car was put into dealer inventory

This dealer obviously doesn't know how demo cars work.

You keep a few basic options out there, say the most popular/sought after models, and you keep them until about 5,000 miles in which case you sell them for a "demo discount" (see how this works).

For instance, I would imagine the V6 auto and the I4 stick will be the most popular Genesis Coupes, so I'd keep them as demos.

Your dealer sounds like a bunch of nimrods.  I would have told them they just lost a sale because you were going to the other Hyundai dealer in the next city.

[MX793]

well that's not entirely true. We had the same problem with the S2000, 99 Odyssey, MDX and Pilot. The manufacturer gives you ZERO assistance at most makes for demo use.  When you have a hot product, it's the exact time that you want to maximize you profit.

HOnda fixed this problem by allocating a "corporate" car which the dealer couldn't sell without major penalty (allocation) .  After 6 months the car was put into dealer inventory

Yeah, I'm not aware of many of the local dealerships having dedicated demo cars anymore.  I know that when my car had to go to the shop for a couple of days for a warranty repair a while back, the dealer sent me to a car rental company (on their dime) because they didn't have any demo cars for me to use as a loaner while mine was being repaired.

[GoCougs]

Kinda sounds like you got played to me.

[dazzleman]

I've learned that the secret to dealing with car dealers, especially the sleazier ones, is to take control right from the beginning.  The salesmen at those dealers employ some subtle 'tests' to see whether you will control the transaction, or whether you will allow them to.  You must show them right from the outset that you're in control.

That means you don't rely on them for any information about the cars.  You come in knowing what you need to know and show them that.  You make it very clear from the outset that if things don't go the way you want, you're walking away.  You have to make them quote you the actual price of the car, and show you how they calculate the payment, rather than just accept their "it's only $399/month" bullshit.  Generally, what works best is to make it clear that you're very interested in buying the car, and are prepared to do so if things go the way you want.

If a salesman can't deal with that attitude, go someplace else.

[MX793]

Kinda sounds like you got played to me.

How'd I get played?  They lost a potential sale.  I walked and probably won't come back.

[dazzleman]

How'd I get played?  They lost a potential sale.  I walked and probably won't come back.

It sounds as if they tried to play you, but you foiled them.

[GoCougs]

How'd I get played?  They lost a potential sale.  I walked and probably won't come back.

You're correct in your original post - it's unrealistic to expect people to buy a car untested, especially for such a plebean affair as a ~$25k Hyundai; what I meant by "played" is that you took at face value why they didn't want you test driving the car (i.e., they had some other reason).

[MX793]

I've learned that the secret to dealing with car dealers, especially the sleazier ones, is to take control right from the beginning.  The salesmen at those dealers employ some subtle 'tests' to see whether you will control the transaction, or whether you will allow them to.  You must show them right from the outset that you're in control.

That means you don't rely on them for any information about the cars.  You come in knowing what you need to know and show them that.  You make it very clear from the outset that if things don't go the way you want, you're walking away.  You have to make them quote you the actual price of the car, and show you how they calculate the payment, rather than just accept their "it's only $399/month" bullshit.  Generally, what works best is to make it clear that you're very interested in buying the car, and are prepared to do so if things go the way you want.

If a salesman can't deal with that attitude, go someplace else.

At the moment my approach is little bit more laid back, especially since right now I'm just checking different cars out.  When I move from the "checking stuff out" phase to the more serious buying phase of my car shopping, I'll be a bit more direct.  However, right now I'm not certain exactly what car I want, I've got a short list and I'm trying to narrow it down.  I'm not quite ready to start seriously talking deal just yet, not before I know whether I even like how the car drives.  Ideally I'd like to narrow it to 1 car, maybe 2, then start going dealer to dealer to see who can give me the best deal.  Maybe next time I ought to start off the conversation by explaining that, although I've made a point to mention that fact while conversing with the past couple of salespeople I've talked with.

I also never talk in terms of monthly payments.  It's better to negotiate in terms of actual OTD price and not something as abstract as a monthly payment (where, as you implied, they can dance around the total price and try to screw you).  Secondly, I intend to pay cash (unless I can get 0%) so the actual out-the-door price is the bottom line for me.

[dazzleman]

At the moment my approach is little bit more laid back, especially since right now I'm just checking different cars out.  When I move from the "checking stuff out" phase to the more serious buying phase of my car shopping, I'll be a bit more direct.  However, right now I'm not certain exactly what car I want, I've got a short list and I'm trying to narrow it down.  I'm not quite ready to start seriously talking deal just yet, not before I know whether I even like how the car drives.  Ideally I'd like to narrow it to 1 car, maybe 2, then start going dealer to dealer to see who can give me the best deal.  Maybe next time I ought to start off the conversation by explaining that, although I've made a point to mention that fact while conversing with the past couple of salespeople I've talked with.

I also never talk in terms of monthly payments.  It's better to negotiate in terms of actual OTD price and not something as abstract as a monthly payment (where, as you implied, they can dance around the total price and try to screw you).  Secondly, I intend to pay cash (unless I can get 0%) so the actual out-the-door price is the bottom line for me.

I understand.  The test driving phase is different, and many short-sighted salespeople don't want to be bothered because they want a sale that day.

When I was shopping for my first BMW, the salesman at the first dealer I went to tried to jerk me around with the test drives.  I test drove a 330i, and then a 525i.  During the test drive, which he treated like a road test (telling me exactly where to drive), he kept telling me how the big advantage to buying from his dealer was that they could 'get me the car,' implying that it was really hard to find the car I wanted and I needed his 'help.'  I didn't buy it, and though it was an insult to my intelligence to be told that.

Still, I was pretty well set by that point that I was going to buy a BMW 5 series, but I was concerned that the 525i didn't have enough power, so I asked to test drive a 530i.  He apparently thought I was wasting his time with test drives, because he said there was nothing to test drive, and wouldn't be for weeks.  I said fine, and went to another dealer, where they were very accomodating about letting me test drive a 530i.  They let me take it out on my own, for as long as I wanted.  I took it out for a really fun drive, and ordered a car from them a couple of days later.

[Laconian]

I understand.  The test driving phase is different, and many short-sighted salespeople don't want to be bothered because they want a sale that day.

When I was shopping for my first BMW, the salesman at the first dealer I went to tried to jerk me around with the test drives.  I test drove a 330i, and then a 525i.  During the test drive, which he treated like a road test (telling me exactly where to drive), he kept telling me how the big advantage to buying from his dealer was that they could 'get me the car,' implying that it was really hard to find the car I wanted and I needed his 'help.'  I didn't buy it, and though it was an insult to my intelligence to be told that.

Still, I was pretty well set by that point that I was going to buy a BMW 5 series, but I was concerned that the 525i didn't have enough power, so I asked to test drive a 530i.  He apparently thought I was wasting his time with test drives, because he said there was nothing to test drive, and wouldn't be for weeks.  I said fine, and went to another dealer, where they were very accomodating about letting me test drive a 530i.  They let me take it out on my own, for as long as I wanted.  I took it out for a really fun drive, and ordered a car from them a couple of days later.

What morons. I doubt you come across as a joyrider in person. What type of customer DO they take seriously?

[dazzleman]

What morons. I doubt you come across as a joyrider in person. What type of customer DO they take seriously?

I was definitely not a joyrider.  If they'd been good salespeople, they'd have sized me up better.

The first dealer, which was located in town just to the east of mine, was called Helmut's BMW at the time and apparently developed a very bad reputation.  The salesman was a 26-year-old smartass who should have been selling Chevrolets rather than BMWs.  In addition to his pitch about how they were doing me a favor by getting me the car, he also claimed to have gotten 18 speeding tickets in his 8 years of driving (in BMWs, of course).  I don't think most people could get that many tickets if they tried.  It was total bullshit.

A few years after that, the dealer changed hands and was renamed BMW of Bridgeport (Connecticut).  The new dealer's advertising made reference to the previous dealer's reputation, saying something like "we sell you the car without the attitude."  I've met the sales manager from that new dealer, and he seems like a nice guy.

But after my experience there, I went to BMW of Darien, a town about 15 minutes to the west of where I live.  While that dealer is a little further away than BMW of Bridgeport, it's more convenient for service because it's in the direction of where I work, and right on the train line, so I can drop the car off for servicing and pick it up after work without going out of my way.  I also developed a relationship with my salesman there, so I'd be reluctant to go someplace else without a good reason.

[GoCougs]

I don't know about you guys, but I get a distinct "joyrider" vibe from our man Dazzle (he, he...).

I like wheelin' an dealin' for cars. I saved myself some hassle by knowing exactly what I wanted before I went to the dealer, and I didn't do any trade-ins.

They're all players to one extent or another. Imagine how many hucksters, punks, ignoramuses, and the like they've got to deal with on a daily basis.

[dazzleman]

I swear I'm not a joyrider!!  I'm actually pretty considerate and wouldn't waste a salesman's time with test drives unless I'm seriously considering buying the car.

[the Teuton]

well that's not entirely true. We had the same problem with the S2000, 99 Odyssey, MDX and Pilot. The manufacturer gives you ZERO assistance at most makes for demo use.  When you have a hot product, it's the exact time that you want to maximize you profit.

HOnda fixed this problem by allocating a "corporate" car which the dealer couldn't sell without major penalty (allocation) .  After 6 months the car was put into dealer inventory

Thanks, YO, for clarifying.  We had cars that were more often used than not when it came time for people to look -- the same cars that always came out of stock, still with plastic on the floors.  And then for most other times, if we had a free loaner car that no one was using, that would be the first car up to go to a potential customer.

But speaking that most people buy AWD cars with the cold weather package, the premium package, and an automatic transmission, it was very easy to keep the right cars in stock at the Bimmer dealership.  It's the odd ones who want a 6-speed, sport package 535i that will leave you in awe.  I don't believe I ever saw one of those at the dealership.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I second the "played" comment. You didn't so much get played, more like get tested and failed when it comes to getting your test drive. I'm sure you did what you could but of all the cars i've test driven NONE of them were "available" for test driving. In the end 2 in 10 were losers(meaning i got no test drive) but a vast majority are available if you assert yourself and "earn" the test drive. It's really just a bunch of salesman BS. The last car i was told had "no test drives" was a C6 Z06, within a 5 minute conversation we progressed from "no test drives" to "test drives if you're a serious buyer"(that one was stated atleast a dozen times), next thing you know the phrase "i'll grab the keys" was uttered. As someone else mentioned you have to take control or else they will try to see how serious you are. I personally don't like that way of doing business(as i'm sure you don't either MX) but you have to play their little BS games.