Midlife crisis... or what $75k sportscar

[Raza]

Yep! I always hated the notchback C5s.

No offense to our resident C5 Z06 owner, but I always thought the hardtop C5s made the ass end look huge.  The coupe was the best looking of the C5 generation. 

[TBR]

No offense to our resident C5 Z06 owner, but I always thought the hardtop C5s made the ass end look huge.  The coupe was the best looking of the C5 generation. 

I definitely agree.

[Sigma Projects]

I'm thinking it would be easier to get a coupe and just work on the engine until it matches Z06 outputs rather than trying to change the roof and trunk of the hardtop Z06. 

Yea, but there's a ton of bits and parts like brake cooling, suspension parts/tuning, gear ratios, titanium exhuast, etc that GM changed on the Z06 from the regular C5, I rather just change one section of the body especially when I'd probably put in some kind of roll cage anyways. Just my preference.

[Raza]

Yea, but there's a ton of bits and parts like brake cooling, suspension parts/tuning, gear ratios, titanium exhuast, etc that GM changed on the Z06 from the regular C5, I rather just change one section of the body especially when I'd probably put in some kind of roll cage anyways. Just my preference.

I'm thinking that changing the body of a fiberglass car's roof and rear window is going to be a lot harder than spec'ing new exhaust, suspension, and some brake vents.  I mean, you can't exactly go at a Z06's roof with a hammer until you get the shape you want. 

[SVT666]

I'm thinking that changing the body of a fiberglass car's roof and rear window is going to be a lot harder than spec'ing new exhaust, suspension, and some brake vents.  I mean, you can't exactly go at a Z06's roof with a hammer until you get the shape you want. 

I agree.  The suspension, brake cooling, and exhaust are much easier to change.  Probably cheaper too.

[Sigma Projects]

looking at the rear and roof section looks pretty easily done. The only thing would be to fab new mounts for the hinges of the trunk. All the sections of fiber glass will over lay the frame of the C5 Z06. It's not like the FG is all one piece, it's in several pieces, why it looks very doable. And I highly doubt the cost of buying titanium exhuast, new suspension components and tuning, random parts that were strengthened, engine upgrades, transmission ratios, brake ducting (not sure if brakes were changed), all those parts added + labor costs. I mean sure there are probably stuff I could install myself, but I'm actually more comfortable with replacing FG panels and getting a new rear window hatch than I guess most people are. To me it seems more expensive in the long run with all the parts. Then again maybe the initial cost of a Z06 would be enough to offset the price. But i know there are a lot of parts in the Z06 that were changed out with stronger parts, especially in the gear box, and the chassis was stiffened, not sure if it was only in the b-pillar section or not. Just a lot of stuff to go over to make a C5 into a true Z06.

[565]

looking at the rear and roof section looks pretty easily done. The only thing would be to fab new mounts for the hinges of the trunk. All the sections of fiber glass will over lay the frame of the C5 Z06. It's not like the FG is all one piece, it's in several pieces, why it looks very doable. And I highly doubt the cost of buying titanium exhuast, new suspension components and tuning, random parts that were strengthened, engine upgrades, transmission ratios, brake ducting (not sure if brakes were changed), all those parts added + labor costs. I mean sure there are probably stuff I could install myself, but I'm actually more comfortable with replacing FG panels and getting a new rear window hatch than I guess most people are. To me it seems more expensive in the long run with all the parts. Then again maybe the initial cost of a Z06 would be enough to offset the price. But i know there are a lot of parts in the Z06 that were changed out with stronger parts, especially in the gear box, and the chassis was stiffened, not sure if it was only in the b-pillar section or not. Just a lot of stuff to go over to make a C5 into a true Z06.

It's pointless to buy a Z06 and get rid of the hardtop body style as that is the biggest and most beneficial change from the C5.

The C5 Z06 overall wasn't all that significantly changed from the C5.  I'd say 80% of the performance improvement comes from the tires and wheels.  Slap some Z06 wheels+tire package on a C5 and you are most of the way there.

In fact a C&D article comparing all 4 varieties of C5 did just that.  They had a base car, Z51 car, Z52(magnetic ride), and Z06.  When they put the Z06 package wheels/tires, the Z51 C5 was nearly as fast as the Z06 in most handling tests.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/the_coupe_coop/suspensions_of_disbelief_tech_stuff+t-ride_quality_and_performance+page-2.html

"The first conclusion that leaps out of the test-results box is that switching to Z06 tires almost brings the base and MSRC cars up to the performance level of the stock Z51, and the F1 Supercar tires bring the Z51 to within a nose of the Z06 in the tighter maneuvers that negate the Z06's big power advantage. On average, the tires alone improve skidpad grip by 0.04 g, lane-change performance by 1.7 mph, and autocross and handling circuit times by 1.3 and 1.8 seconds. "

Another obvious change is the LS6,  but since you could put some basic mods on an LS1 and get there or better, it's not a big deal.

Then there are all the small changes that the Z06 had, and frankly few of them matter.  As mentioned before the FE4 suspension package on the Z06 isn't that much different from the Z51 package overall.  Put Z06 tires on the Z51 suspension and you are close to Z06 handling numbers.  The one thing you might want are the 2004+ Z06 shocks, as they are better tuned (tuned on the Ring actually).  That is a $500 mod. 

There are also the distinctive brake vents front and rear.  You can actually buy these for a normal C5 as well, you often see them for sale.  Their actualy usefulness is sort of up to debate.  I'd actually just spend the money on better brake lines (which seems to be the concensus on improving brake performance on the track).  As noted the brakes rotors aren't any different on a Z06.  The pads are just a more aggressive compound, and the calipers are painted red.

Then there is the shorted geared M12 transmission and supposedly beefier clutch.  I don't know how much beefier that M12 actually is, as the normal MN6 really isn't known to fail.  There is a known problem with the M12 with the clutch sticking to the floor.  Overall the MN6 should do fine.  The shorter gearing helps the Z06 alot, but the more relaxed MN6 gearing isn't anything more power can't fix.

Then there are the weight savings measures.  Everyone likes to talk about how the Z06 is 100 to 150 pounds lighter than the Z51, yet MOST of that weight is from the change from targa to hardtop.  The Z06 is actually only 32 pounds lighter than the Z51 hardtop FRC.  The wheels and tires alone save 21 pounds, the titanium exhaust saves 13 pounds, the other savings (thinner glass, fixed antenna, less sound deadening) save only 6 pounds, some weight is added back with the M12 tranny, brake cooling ducts and other stuff.   So basically if you put the coupe body back on a Z06, you are doing to have a car that weighs maybe 10 pounds less than a C5 wearing Z06 shoes.

The titanium exhaust is really only useful for the 13 pounds it shaves, and bragging rights (possibly because it looks cool as it ages).  It's also one of the first things to go anyway when modding a Z06.  Usually when you get a exhaust mod for a C5, you don't get a Z06 titanium system because it's still too restrictive (the exhaust outlets look alot bigger, but that is a trick, they neck down to close to the normal C5 size after 4 inches or so).



Finally, it is trickier to make the Z06 into a coupe than you might think.  The Z06 doesn't really have special unique chassis bracing per se.  It does have the extra brace from the convertible.  That is because the Z06 is actually not built from the targa coupe platform, but from the C5 vert platform.  Thus you sometimes see Z06 ==> Vert conversions, but I've never seen a Z06 to targa conversion.  Honestly everything between the A pillar and the rear lights is actually different. 

Here is a kit to make the Z06 into a targa while keeping the notchback style.  Pretty much everyone on that thread agrees that it's super hard to make it into the fast back.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-parts-for-sale-wanted/2137217-caravaggio-c5-corvette-zo6-targa-conversion-kit-bran-new.html

There was someone that had to go the other way (coupe to FRC) and had to make some big changes.  It appears you need a new rear top tub as that is different, you also need to remove the fenders because those fit differently on the FRC.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-general/1959247-acp-coupe-to-frc-conversion-body-kit-w-pics.html#post1564399063



As you can tell from the comments, this isn't something that happens often and remember he is going the sensible route targa===>FRC.  If you tried to go from Z06 to Coupe, just imagine the responses.

As noted before, the hardtop is actually the Z06's greatest weapon over it's lesser siblings (short of the tires/wheel package).  It makes the Z06 stiffer by 2hz (22---> 24hz), which may not seem alot but it totally transforms the car.  The added stiffness enhances every aspect of the car beyond what simply changing the tires and wheels can do.  Car and Driver sums it up very well in that suspension article.

"If the three targas are apples, the Z06 is a kumquat?a go-kart among grand tourers. Its steering response is so much quicker it's hard to believe the ratio is the same. Its weight is within 141 pounds of the others, yet it feels like hundreds less. Its structure also feels twice as rigid. Yes, it filters out less road noise and harshness, but at least each bump is felt just once, with far less reverberation than in the other cars. Grip is astonishing, but these wide paws tend to wander a bit along pavement ruts. This chassis is also exceptionally well tuned to the active-handling system's competitive-driving mode, which allowed us to set and hold just enough rear-end drift to point the car perfectly between events on the autocross course. The Z06 is clearly the car that best rewards expert driving."

Trust me, none of that is from the extra 60hp, or the shorter gearing, titanium exhaust, brake vents, or the lighter glass.  They didn't mention anything those changes could have affected.  Instead they instantly noticed the difference in steering response (though the steering rack is identical), feeling of stiffness, feeling of less weight, feeling of less reverberation over bumps.  That is all the immense benefits of chassis stiffness.

[Raza]

I knew it wouldn't be easy.  Chainsaw and a hammer wouldn't do it.

[Tave]

I knew it wouldn't be easy.  Chainsaw and a hammer wouldn't do it.

But they would be immensely fun nonetheless.

[Raza]

But they would be immensely fun nonetheless.

On someone else's car, definitely.   

[Sigma Projects]

ah just got back to check out the forums. And well yea it would be very difficult to go C5 rear section to fixed top like that. But that's now what I said, I wouldn't be changing any rear tub, most of what I was talking about would be very cosmetic. I don't think you understand the difference. I also don't think you understand the difference in how it would feel. I mean to each his own. Personally I just wanted a C5 Z06 with the LOOK of the fast back. Not cut out the tub. It would more than likely look like having a rear brace in the middle where there wouldn't be. Not a big deal IMO. And like I said there were many other parts on the car that were changed for durability. LS6 block itself has different water passages than the LS1.

Plus seriously. No major frame alteration would have to be made in doing a cosmetic transformation from notch back to fast back. I mean I mostly just see the need for new brackets and to adapt the Z06 tub and B pillar to have the sealing for the hatch.

"If you tried to go from Z06 to Coupe, just imagine the responses."

If I cared about what people thought of "ooh no he choose that, he's an idiot" then I wouldn't even look at a vette, I'd just sell my house and get a lambo or ferrari
And I sure wouldn't listen to the people who kept saying I was retarded for even thinking of dropping in the IS350 drive train into an old RWD Celica. But I had all my reasons and now am past hard mechanical stuff for that, just got to deal with the electrical night mare