Law Enforcement Memorial plates: LEO brownie points?

[bing_oh]

Lots of people have "important" business that needs to get done quickly.

When's the last time your "important business" involved the possible serious injury or death of another person? I can actually tell you the last time mine did...

[Rupert]

Your logic is off, Nick.

If an officer is truly responding to an emergency, he should be exempt from traffic laws.  Of course, I recognize that this is often abused, so I'm just talking in theory.  But you getting to work is not an emergency.

If we're going to play by the book, then traffic laws are about safety. If that's the case, then breaking those laws is unsafe. Emergency vehicles have lights and sirens so that they can be safe while they break those laws. If they are breaking those laws without lights and sirens, they are being unsafe, and therefore they should receive punishment. If there is an emergency urgent enough to speed while en route, it is urgent enough to turn on the lights and sirens.

The other thing emergency vehicle operators have is training. But, if we use that logic to allow them to break traffic laws, then we should also let civilians who have received advanced defensive driving, advanced car control, and even race driving training break traffic laws. In which case, sign me up!

training-- race school examption

[Rupert]

Go fuck yourself old man. Everything you and your wife say is crap. <- and that's all you deserve

You have bing and houndog/rohan/Mrs Houndog confused. Otherwise, you're about right...

Note that if you keep it up, they'll probably ban you again. That would be boring.

[Eye of the Tiger]

When's the last time your "important business" involved the possible serious injury or death of another person? I can actually tell you the last time mine did...

If someone's going to die, flip on your lights and sirens and get the hell there ASAP, but you're just need to hurry up and write a parking ticket, what the heck do you need to run red lights and drive twice the speed limit for?

[bing_oh]

multiple accounts are not allowed

Make sure you report that to one of the admins. You're gonna look like a douch when my IP from Ohio doesn't match Tony's IP in Michigan...

[Eye of the Tiger]

You have bing and houndog/rohan/Mrs Houndog confused. Otherwise, you're about right...

Note that if you keep it up, they'll probably ban you again. That would be boring.

I swear to you that they are all the same person.

[bing_oh]

If we're going to play by the book, then traffic laws are about safety. If that's the case, then breaking those laws is unsafe. Emergency vehicles have lights and sirens so that they can be safe while they break those laws. If they are breaking those laws without lights and sirens, they are being unsafe, and therefore they should receive punishment. If there is an emergency urgent enough to speed while en route, it is urgent enough to turn on the lights and sirens.

The other thing emergency vehicle operators have is training. But, if we use that logic to allow them to break traffic laws, then we should also let civilians who have received advanced defensive driving, advanced car control, and even race driving training break traffic laws. In which case, sign me up!

training-- race school examption

There are plenty of circumstances where responding to a higher priority call without lights and sirens is preferred. In some of these cases, responding hot could actually make things worse. There are circumstances where there's a tactical necessity to arrive blacked out...no lights (at all!), no sirens...so that the bad guy doesn't know LE is there. Those calls are frequently extremely urgent, however.

There are also lower priority calls that need a quick response but aren't classified as "emergencies." Those are calls where I would respond slightly over the speed limit, but still obey things like traffic lights and stop signs. Thses calls are actually quite frequent.

For low priority calls, I'm generally at the speed limit and following all traffic laws.

If you have doubts about this stuff, you can always go ride with a local PD. It's kinda tough to explain on the internet but pretty easy when you're experiencing it.

[dazzleman]

If we're going to play by the book, then traffic laws are about safety. If that's the case, then breaking those laws is unsafe. Emergency vehicles have lights and sirens so that they can be safe while they break those laws. If they are breaking those laws without lights and sirens, they are being unsafe, and therefore they should receive punishment. If there is an emergency urgent enough to speed while en route, it is urgent enough to turn on the lights and sirens.

The other thing emergency vehicle operators have is training. But, if we use that logic to allow them to break traffic laws, then we should also let civilians who have received advanced defensive driving, advanced car control, and even race driving training break traffic laws. In which case, sign me up!

training-- race school examption

I agree with you.  If an LEO is breaking traffic laws flagrantly and not using sirens and lights, that can be dangerous, and it probably means that he's not going to a real emergency in a lot of cases.  I think LEOs have to be allowed more leeway, but too much undermines respect for the law.

[Rupert]

I swear to you that they are all the same person.

Can't say I disagree too much. But, since there seems to be some sort of hallowed place for them around here, I think I'll be S-ing TFU to avoid moderator intervention...

[Rupert]

There are plenty of circumstances where responding to a higher priority call without lights and sirens is preferred. In some of these cases, responding hot could actually make things worse. There are circumstances where there's a tactical necessity to arrive blacked out...no lights (at all!), no sirens...so that the bad guy doesn't know LE is there. Those calls are frequently extremely urgent, however.

There are also lower priority calls that need a quick response but aren't classified as "emergencies." Those are calls where I would respond slightly over the speed limit, but still obey things like traffic lights and stop signs. Thses calls are actually quite frequent.

For low priority calls, I'm generally at the speed limit and following all traffic laws.

If you have doubts about this stuff, you can always go ride with a local PD. It's kinda tough to explain on the internet but pretty easy when you're experiencing it.

I agree with that, more or less. The blacked out thing makes obvious sense, but the lower priority is, eh, sketchy. It's up to officer discretion, really, and that's not good for PR. I recognize that playing by the book is not always practical from the officer's POV, especially because I don't even own the book ( ). I do know that it is very common for a cop to pass me on the freeway when I'm already speeding a bit (having slowed down because a cop was behind me), and that doesn't ever seem right.

[dazzleman]

Can't say I disagree too much. But, since there seems to be some sort of hallowed place for them around here, I think I'll be S-ing TFU to avoid moderator intervention...

Nick was a little rude up there.  I don't think bing_oh warranted that.  Everybody should be treated with equal respect here.

[Rupert]

Nick was a little rude up there.  I don't think bing_oh warranted that.  Everybody should be treated with equal respect here.

Agreed, at least until proven otherwise.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Nick was a little rude up there.  I don't think bing_oh warranted that.  Everybody should be treated with equal respect here.

I do not respect those who are above the law. Nothing I say is important, for they are far greater beings than I.

[dazzleman]

Agreed, at least until proven otherwise.

I honestly think the LEOs on this site are a good bunch of guys.  Hounddog and Rohan are probably the most hard core, but I can see where they're coming from.  Bing_oh seems very reasonable, and Greg (Catman) is really cool.  In any case, you don't have to agree with everything a person says to respect and like that person.  I respect and like all of them.

[hounddog]

Here in New Jersey, off-duty LEOs and their family members display full-size golden badge replicas in their front windshield beside their registration sticker. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this very public, in-your-face practice of displaying a "get out of jail free card" in public has created more resentment and ill-will on the part of the public towards police than anything else.

That is horsehockey, wrapped up into a nice tight quasi-anti-police wrapping.

What is the difference between police putting a sticker on their vehicle displaying their profession vs. a fireman putting the maltese cross and other silly fireman related stickers on their cars?

Are you just as resentful of them? 
Because if you are not, then you, my friend, are not being fair.

Most police officers do not put things like that on their cars.  Those who do, do so because they are proud of their chosen profession not because it will help them "get out of jail free."  We have badges and identification cards, we do not NEED any type of stickers on our car to get out of speeding tickets in most cases.

[Eye of the Tiger]

That is horsehockey, wrapped up into a nice tight quasi-anti-police wrapping.

What is the difference between police putting a sticker on their vehicle displaying their profession vs. a fireman putting the maltese cross and other silly fireman related stickers on their cars?

Are you just as resentful of them? 
Because if you are not, then you, my friend, are not being fair.

Most police officers do not put things like that on their cars.  Those who do, do so because they are proud of their chosen profession not because it will help them "get out of jail free."  We have badges and identification cards, we do not NEED any type of stickers on our car to get out of speeding tickets in most cases.

Right, so how many times have you used your "get out of jail free card"?

[dazzleman]

That is horsehockey, wrapped up into a nice tight quasi-anti-police wrapping.

What is the difference between police putting a sticker on their vehicle displaying their profession vs. a fireman putting the maltese cross and other silly fireman related stickers on their cars?

Are you just as resentful of them? 
Because if you are not, then you, my friend, are not being fair.

Most police officers do not put things like that on their cars.  Those who do, do so because they are proud of their chosen profession not because it will help them "get out of jail free."  We have badges and identification cards, we do not NEED any type of stickers on our car to get out of speeding tickets in most cases.

That last line is certainly true.  You guys don't need stickers or special plates.  I think that was Dan's point in a way, that those stickers were being used by non-LEOs to get out of tickets because the 'professional courtesy' practices in New Jersey have been too broad.  Knowing that state as I do, I have little reason to believe that he's wrong about that.

[hounddog]

I swear to you that they are all the same person.

Why, because we all are conservative?  Because Randy and I are both police officers? (I am now retired)   Because Kat and I have been married for many years and think alike?

Get a grip, and step away from the marijuana.

[dazzleman]

Why, because we all are conservative?  Because Randy and I are both police officers?  Because Kat and I have been married for many years and think alike?

Get a grip, and step away from the marijuana.

Nick's bitter because he keeps getting tickets for not getting his car inspected, because he can't afford the necessary repairs.

[hounddog]

Nick's bitter because he keeps getting tickets for not getting his car inspected, because he can't afford the necessary repairs.

I wonder if he knows that there are in fact, more than one police officer in the country?

Or, that many (read; most) police officers, especially ones that are over 30, are very conservative?

[bing_oh]

I agree with that, more or less. The blacked out thing makes obvious sense, but the lower priority is, eh, sketchy. It's up to officer discretion, really, and that's not good for PR. I recognize that playing by the book is not always practical from the officer's POV, especially because I don't even own the book ( ). I do know that it is very common for a cop to pass me on the freeway when I'm already speeding a bit (having slowed down because a cop was behind me), and that doesn't ever seem right.

I'm well aware of public perception...despite what some people around here might think, I didn't pop out of the womb wearing blue, so I didn't understand the realities of alot of this stuff until I was actually in LE and doing it myself.

Let me give you an example of a common priority/non-emergency response. Let's say that there's a lone officer on a traffic stop on the other side of town. The car he has stopped has five guys in it and they're acting suspiciously. There hasn't been any hostile action by the five guys, but the officer is starting to dig and things aren't adding up. He requests backup before he digs any further and I'm the only one available...but I'm on the other side of town. This call doesn't justify an emergency run. I'm not going to increase the danger level by busting through lights and stop signs to get there. However, the faster I get there to back him up, the less likely that someone in the suspicioius car is going to do something stupid that makes it an emergency (statistically, attacks on multiple officers are much less than attacks on lone officers, so the simple presence of a backup officer makes things safer). For that, I'll respond above the speed limit.

And that's just one example...there are countless different circumstances where a quicker response is necessary but an emergency one is not.

Like I said before, if you have doubts then make arrangements to ride with an officer. You won't see everything, but you'll get a better understanding of how LE works and how your tax dollars are being spent. Alot of the mystery gets stripped away after you've seen what happens on the street first-hand...and it's nothing like COPS.

[hounddog]

And, I can even understand his bitterness regarding state inspections.  Fortunately, we do not have them here.  Yet. 

[Rupert]

I honestly think the LEOs on this site are a good bunch of guys.  Hounddog and Rohan are probably the most hard core, but I can see where they're coming from.  Bing_oh seems very reasonable, and Greg (Catman) is really cool.  In any case, you don't have to agree with everything a person says to respect and like that person.  I respect and like all of them.

Well, since we're naming names, and since I'm certain they feel the same about me, I have very little respect for hounddog and rohan (other than their taste in beer). Not only do we not agree on anything (except beer), but I have never got any sense that they respected anyone that doesn't agree with them, including and especially me. I find it difficult to respect someone who bullies and berates everyone, and makes almost no attempt to understand the opposing side of an argument.

I do respect the rest of the LEOs on the BB, because they do the opposite of the above. I respect the LEO profession, but it is sometimes difficult to respect individual LEOs and agency policies, etc.

[hounddog]

Right, so how many times have you used your "get out of jail free card"?

Are you referring to my police related stickers on my car?  Never had one.

[dazzleman]

I wonder if he knows that there are in fact, more than one police officer in the country?

Or, that many (read; most) police officers, especially ones that are over 30, are very conservative?

Nick is actually pretty conservative too, except that he has some issues with authority and is on the libertarian side, which most LEOs aren't.

It makes sense that LEOs are conservative, for two reasons.  First, that sort of personality would be more attracted to law enforcement in the first place.  Second, your experiences as an officer would probably turn you conservative, even if you weren't before.

I never knew a cop who wasn't conservative.  My uncle was a prison guard, and he was also ultra-conservative.  Dealing with criminals makes you conservative, because in general liberals deny the reality of the evil behind most criminal activity, while conservatism is more realistic about it.

[bing_oh]

Right, so how many times have you used your "get out of jail free card"?

Never. Though I doubt that you'll believe it, I have a very personal belief in individual responsibility. I'll accept any citation that I receive with a smile and a "thank you, officer." If I deserved the ticket, I'll pay it promptly and courteously.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Are you referring to my police related stickers on my car?  Never had one.

You implied that you didn't need stickers on your car because you just flash your badge whenever you get pulled over.

[hounddog]

Well, since we're naming names, and since I'm certain they feel the same about me, I have very little respect for hounddog and rohan (other than their taste in beer). Not only do we not agree on anything (except beer), but I have never got any sense that they respected anyone that doesn't agree with them, including and especially me. I find it difficult to respect someone who bullies and berates everyone, and makes almost no attempt to understand the opposing side of an argument.

I do respect the rest of the LEOs on the BB, because they do the opposite of the above. I respect the LEO profession, but it is sometimes difficult to respect individual LEOs and agency policies, etc.

I respond in kind to what is said to me.  Randy does the same.

The bigger problem is that you and others here do not listen to what is said, almost ever.  You ask questions, we give you the answers, and you tell us we are wrong or that we are just spouting institutional blah blah blah. 

It gets old very fast.  When I came here I tried very hard to be articulate and answer questions to the best of my ability.  But why should I do that when the above is the response. 

I just got very tired of it and no longer really try very hard. 

If you want me, and I suspect Randy as well, to treat you better you might wish to remember that road runs both ways.

And for the record, I hate NO ONE.  It is absolutely against my beliefs.

[hounddog]

You implied that you didn't need stickers on your car because you just flash your badge whenever you get pulled over.

I have a gun whenever I get pulled over.  It would be pretty impolite for me to not tell them I have a gun. 

They usually ask why I have it.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Nick is actually pretty conservative too, except that he has some issues with authority and is on the libertarian side, which most LEOs aren't.

It makes sense that LEOs are conservative, for two reasons.  First, that sort of personality would be more attracted to law enforcement in the first place.  Second, your experiences as an officer would probably turn you conservative, even if you weren't before.

I never knew a cop who wasn't conservative.  My uncle was a prison guard, and he was also ultra-conservative.  Dealing with criminals makes you conservative, because in general liberals deny the reality of the evil behind most criminal activity, while conservatism is more realistic about it.

The only authority that I have issues with is authority that blindly enforces unrealistic and stupid rules, but does not follow them.