Review: 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD

[ifcar]

Just say that although you don't have specific numbers for this particular truck, in general full size trucks don't get good gas mileage and this one probably isn't an exception.

Right, but when I write about cars on a general interest site, I try to imagine my mother reading it as a frame of reference for someone who isn't at all in tune with the automotive market. So the numbers of another full-size truck provide some idea of what sort of mileage full-size trucks in general return.

[TBR]

Right, but when I write about cars on a general interest site, I try to imagine my mother reading it as a frame of reference for someone who isn't at all in tune with the automotive market. So the numbers of another full-size truck provide some idea of what sort of mileage full-size trucks in general return.

One would presume that someone reading a review about a 3/4 ton truck is in the process of shopping for one and therefore has some expectations about gas mileage or is interested in cars/trucks in general and therefore has some expectations about gas mileage.

[ifcar]

One would presume that someone reading a review about a 3/4 ton truck is in the process of shopping for one and therefore has some expectations about gas mileage or is interested in cars/trucks in general and therefore has some expectations about gas mileage.

Not necessarily. That's probably true of someone who's actively searching for information, but I get a number of readers who just wander by from the general-interest homepage if something catches their eye. Examiner.com Transportation has a much more AOL Autos audience than a Car and Driver audience.

[2o6]

Yes, you did mention it. I asked for a source, because I don't believe it. I never saw one.

H1 average - 15MPG.
H2 Average - 14MPG.


Look it up yourself. Life doesn't have "sources".

[TBR]

Not necessarily. That's probably true of someone who's actively searching for information, but I get a number of readers who just wander by from the general-interest homepage if something catches their eye. Examiner.com Transportation has a much more AOL Autos audience than a Car and Driver audience.

Then they probably don't care.

[2o6]

Not necessarily. That's probably true of someone who's actively searching for information, but I get a number of readers who just wander by from the general-interest homepage if something catches their eye. Examiner.com Transportation has a much more AOL Autos audience than a Car and Driver audience.

Then you're misinforming them.

[TBR]

H1 average - 15MPG.
H2 Average - 14MPG.


Look it up yourself. Life doesn't have "sources".

Those numbers are most definitely not correct.

[ifcar]

Then you're misinforming them.

How is that? By saying that the Silverado doesn't get good mileage?

[the Teuton]

Just say that although you don't have specific numbers for this particular truck, in general full size trucks don't get good gas mileage and this one probably isn't an exception.

ZOMG!  A well-worded exemption!  Holy Moses!

[the Teuton]

About.com is fairly well respected.  They figure 16 mpg for the H1 and 10 for the H2.  These match what I was expecting.

Hummer used to list specific numbers for the H1 on their site, but they took them down when the H1 went out of civilian production.

http://trucks.about.com/cs/suvreviews/a/hummer_fuel04.htm

[ifcar]

About.com is fairly well respected.  They figure 16 mpg for the H1 and 10 for the H2.  These match what I was expecting.

Hummer used to list specific numbers for the H1 on their site, but they took them down when the H1 went out of civilian production.

http://trucks.about.com/cs/suvreviews/a/hummer_fuel04.htm

He gives numbers, but doesn't say where they came from. I don't think those specs are remotely plausible.

[the Teuton]

How about owner reviews?

http://flashoffroad.com/features/buyingTrucks/buyingUsed.html

[the Teuton]

Or maybe a real, well-chronicled review:

The eight-cylinder, 6.5-liter turbo diesel engine performed a lot better on the highway than we expected. Though its rather loud pocpocpocpoc engine note made the side and rearview mirrors vibrate noticeably, the Hummer was actually quite comfortable at 70 and even 80 mph. Concerned about the truck's prolific thirst for fuel, we were content to cruise at just over 60 mph. It cost about $60 to fill the Hummer's main (25-gallon) and auxiliary (17-gallon) tanks, which took us about 550 miles. Fuel from the twin tanks is accessed via an interior toggle switch, which made us feel like elite commandos when we flipped it back and forth. We almost began to believe our road trip was an important mission.

550/42 = 13.01 mpg.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=45182/pageNumber=1?synpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/used/2004/hummer/h1/100370625/roadtestarticle.html&articleId=45182

The point of all of this, of course, is to prove your assumption wrong.  Just because something is bigger or heavier does not mean it gets worse gas mileage.  Diesels are generally more efficient than gas engines.

[ifcar]

But that's not a standardized comparison driving the H2 the same way.

And I didn't say the Silverado would get worse gas mileage with a diesel.

[the Teuton]

But that's not a standardized comparison driving the H2 the same way.

And I didn't say the Silverado would get worse gas mileage with a diesel.

There are no numbers because they don't exist.  You know that.

But you are saying that the mileage will be poor based on a 1500 model with a gas V8.  That's an unfair assumption to make.

[ifcar]

There are no numbers because they don't exist.  You know that.

Right. Which is why I didn't say one gets better mileage than the other. You did. If you're going to say something specific, you need a specific source.

But you are saying that the mileage will be poor based on a 1500 model with a gas V8.  That's an unfair assumption to make.

Just to be clear: are you debating this on a theoretical basis, or actually suggesting that the Silverado 2500HD 6.6-liter gets good gas mileage?

[the Teuton]

Right. Which is why I didn't say one gets better mileage than the other. You did. If you're going to say something specific, you need a specific source.

No shit.

Just to be clear: are you debating this on a theoretical basis, or actually suggesting that the Silverado 2500HD 6.6-liter gets good gas mileage?

Good is a relative word.

[ifcar]

No shit.

Are you planning to provide one?

Good is a relative word.

I think it's clear in the context of the article what I mean. When I say "a big truck doesn't get good gas mileage," I'm not making a comparison to other trucks, but speaking very generally.

[the Teuton]

Are you planning to provide one?

They don't exist anymore.  But it's always possible to attribute information to other sources, and it's also journalistically and ethically sound to do so.  The audience of a half-ton pickup is not going to be cross-shopping with a Prius, so I think you're being misleading, and you don't give a crap.  Once again, it's all relative, and if you cannot substantiate your claims without vague generalizations, then they really don't have much ground, do they?

I think it's clear in the context of the article what I mean. When I say "a big truck doesn't get good gas mileage," I'm not making a comparison to other trucks, but speaking very generally.

Once again, that's misleading.  If it really does get poor mileage compared to, say, a Cummins Ram, you may be able to say that.  But you cannot substantiate a claim like that.  It's easier to make such a claim, too, when you can identify with your demographics.  So who is your audience?  For a contractor, 1-2 mpg over the course of the life of a vehicle can be huge.  Calling it poor across the board is insulting to such a reader.

[CALL_911]

Once again, that's misleading.  If it really does get poor mileage compared to, say, a Cummins Ram, you may be able to say that.  But you cannot substantiate a claim like that.  It's easier to make such a claim, too, when you can identify with your demographics.  So who is your audience?  For a contractor, 1-2 mpg over the course of the life of a vehicle can be huge.  Calling it poor across the board is insulting to such a reader.

+1

It's like you were in my mind, reading my thoughts and putting them together in a non-neanderthalesque fashion.

[the Teuton]

+1

It's like you were in my mind, reading my thoughts and putting them together in a non-neanderthalesque fashion.

Somewhere, deep down under all of that scientific shenanigans you possess, is someone who probably has sense enough to be an ethical journalist.

And yes, you still have to be ethical in opinion pieces.  That's why people don't like Dan Neil.  He teeters on the edge a bit much.

[GoCougs]

Wow.

[ifcar]

They don't exist anymore.  But it's always possible to attribute information to other sources, and it's also journalistically and ethically sound to do so.  The audience of a half-ton pickup is not going to be cross-shopping with a Prius, so I think you're being misleading, and you don't give a crap.  Once again, it's all relative, and if you cannot substantiate your claims without vague generalizations, then they really don't have much ground, do they?

Once again, that's misleading.  If it really does get poor mileage compared to, say, a Cummins Ram, you may be able to say that.  But you cannot substantiate a claim like that.  It's easier to make such a claim, too, when you can identify with your demographics.  So who is your audience?  For a contractor, 1-2 mpg over the course of the life of a vehicle can be huge.  Calling it poor across the board is insulting to such a reader.

"Another aspect of the Silverado 2500HD that undoubtedly exposes its size is its fuel consumption. It?s too heavy to be rated by the EPA, but the 6.0-liter gasoline Silverado 1500 is rated for 13 miles per gallon in the city and 18 on the highway. The 2500HD has a 34-gallon tank to hold its diesel.

But that comes with the territory in a full-size ultra-capable pickup. You can?t expect to tow over 10,000 pounds and carry 3,600 pounds of cargo and get good gas mileage or a tight turning radius. "

In no way does it suggest I'm drawing any comparison to a Ram. Quite the opposite.

[2o6]

"Another aspect of the Silverado 2500HD that undoubtedly exposes its size is its fuel consumption. It?s too heavy to be rated by the EPA, but the 6.0-liter gasoline Silverado 1500 is rated for 13 miles per gallon in the city and 18 on the highway. The 2500HD has a 34-gallon tank to hold its diesel.

But that comes with the territory in a full-size ultra-capable pickup. You can?t expect to tow over 10,000 pounds and carry 3,600 pounds of cargo and get good gas mileage or a tight turning radius. "

In no way does it suggest I'm drawing any comparison to a Ram. Quite the opposite.

Teuton was using the Ram as an example.

The sentences bolded are totally irrelevant and unrelated. The last sentence is a "duh" one and frankly (like teuton said) is insulting. People are dumb, but not that dumb.

[ifcar]

Teuton was using the Ram as an example.

Neither the Ram nor any other competitor was mentioned. In context, it's very clear what I was and was not saying.

The sentences bolded are totally irrelevant and unrelated. The last sentence is a "duh" one and frankly (like teuton said) is insulting. People are dumb, but not that dumb.

I've explained many times that I was just providing a very general context for full-size pickup gas mileage. People don't like that, but once again, no one has come up with a suggestion that gives some number as context to someone who isn't familiar with big pickups.

[CALL_911]

Somewhere, deep down under all of that scientific shenanigans you possess, is someone who probably has sense enough to be an ethical journalist.

And yes, you still have to be ethical in opinion pieces.  That's why people don't like Dan Neil.  He teeters on the edge a bit much.

My writing makes children cry. I'd be on the streets if I were a journalist.

[the Teuton]

I have never seen anyone obfuscate reality or proper writing quite like you, Ifcar.  Wow.

[GoCougs]

Guys, I don't see the problem. A diesel 3/4-ton pickup, just as a big-engined 1/2-ton will, get lousy MPG.

[Tave]

A diesel 3/4-ton pickup, just as a big-engined 1/2-ton will, get lousy MPG.

Obviously.

Guys, I don't see the problem.

You can't quote the mileage figures of one car to prove a point about the gas mileage of a completely different car. How hard is that to understand?



"This Prius gets shitty mileage because the Supra makes 13/17."

"The Excursion gets great mileage because the Escape does too."


It is a logical error. The numbers of those other vehicles aren't germane to the discussion. They don't belong.



I don't think anyone would have noticed if he wrote something like, "As with all pickups, what you gain in space and power, you sacrifice in efficiency, and the 3/4-ton Chevy has a deep thirst. Owners: prepare yourselves to support this diesel-junky."

[ifcar]

I want to include some number, or many people will have no idea of what I mean by low mileage. I once again invite anyone to suggest an alternative to describing another Silverado with a different engine.