Best engines of all time

[Nethead]

If you're allowed to pick only one engine, and there are no limitations other than those specified in the initial posting, it has to be the Cosworth-Ford DFV 3.0L V8. 

This engine won its first race, the Formula 1 race at Silverstone, UK in 1968, in the capable hands of Jim Clark in a Lotus designed to use this engine as the mounting location of the rear suspension.  Even with a suspension failure during the race, Clark had the power to finish in first place.  The engine went on to win hundreds of Formula 1 events powering racecars by many different constructors.

The engine powered an outright winner of the 24 Hours of LeMans in or about 1975 (possibly at a displacement of 3.5L--I'd have to check).

This engine became the engine of choice for a lengthy period in Indy car racing, it's great strength and small displacement making it ideal for the turbocharging regulations adopted by Indy cars.  In this form it powered many victories and won many championships for the teams that used them.

How many other engines have ruled Formula 1 and Indy cars, and thrown in an outright victory in the 24 Hours of LeMans for good measure?  No mere class win here, but first overall.

If more than one engine can be listed, there are lots of great engines out there.  But if there can only be one choice...

[CALL_911]

BMW I6s. They're buttery smooth, they're light, well balanced, fuel efficient and they sound great too. They've almost always been at the tops of their respective classes.

[Madman]

What about the B18 and the B20?  I thought the B230F/FT was a descendent of the original B18.

The Volvo B18/B20 was a completely different engine.  The B18/B20 was a pushrod design (which was also very different from the B16 which preceded it) while the B21/B23/B230 Red Block was an overhead cam unit.  The Red Block did replace the B18/B20, but the two engines have almost nothing in common.  Well, they do both use the same oil filter (Volvo part number 3517857) if that counts for anything!

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[CJ]

I always thought they were somewhat related. 

[ChrisV]

What exactly qualifies as the best engines ever? Our personal bias? The motor in our favorite cars? What?   

Yeah, that's why I went with versatility instead of an engine that ONLY won some races. For example, that Cossie mention ed above was an excellent F1 engine, but I doubt it had much impact outside of that limited scope, and was not as comfortable in a daily driver, offroader, aircraft, or industrial application.

[hotrodalex]

BMW I6s. They're buttery smooth, they're light, well balanced, fuel efficient and they sound great too. They've almost always been at the tops of their respective classes.

The LS7 is also an amazing piece of machinery. It's a big V8 making big power, yet it is light and compact. You can pretty much put it in anything.

[SVT_Power]

The LS7 is also an amazing piece of machinery. It's a big V8 making big power, yet it is light and compact. You can pretty much put it in anything.

sounds like pretty much any LS series V8...

[giant_mtb]

Yeah, that's why I went with versatility instead of an engine that ONLY won some races. For example, that Cossie mention ed above was an excellent F1 engine, but I doubt it had much impact outside of that limited scope, and was not as comfortable in a daily driver, offroader, aircraft, or industrial application.

I'm probably completely wrong, but isn't it a Cosworth Ford that's in the Noble?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The VQ WAS an exceptionally smooth motor before it jumped up to 3.5L.

My VQ30 maxima was amazingly smooth, it is easily as smooth or smoother than the 4.4 V8 in my BMW as well as several new cars including newer 3.5 VQ's. It's too bad that in order to increase power nissan has had to sacrifice such smoothness.

[AutobahnSHO]

OH you said BEST, not "greatest looking"....
-Serious maintenance issues there, but it did allow Ford to sell the "fastest FWD Car in the world" for $20k in 1989.

[SVT666]

OH you said BEST, not "greatest looking"....
-Serious maintenance issues there, but it did allow Ford to sell the "fastest FWD Car in the world" for $20k in 1989.

That is definitely one of the sweetest looking engines ever put in a street legal car.

[giant_mtb]

That is definitely one of the sweetest looking engines ever put in a street legal car.

+1

[hounddog]

I keep thinking the new Hemi engine should get a mention as well.  It has a very high rev at about 6800, is fairly economical, is extremely well balanced at low and high end RPMs and would make the best gas small block boat engine. 

Just change the computer settings and you could use the same engine and realize several different power outputs and fuel economies to suit the needs for whatever model boat you use it in.  Marinizing would be extremely easy due to the already high rpm range.    It even sounds like it should be in a boat. 

Great engine.

[Minpin]

I keep thinking the new Hemi engine should get a mention as well.  It has a very high rev at about 6800, is fairly economical, is extremely well balanced at low and high end RPMs and would make the best gas small block boat engine. 

Just change the computer settings and you could use the same engine and realize several different power outputs and fuel economies to suit the needs for whatever model boat you use it in.  Marinizing would be extremely easy due to the already high rpm range.    It even sounds like it should be in a boat. 

Great engine.

Pfft. Mercruisers are the best gas boat motors. Cummin/Cat/Lugger tied for best diesels.

[hounddog]

Mercruiser is nothing more than a poor copy of Volvo.

And, they are GM engines. 

[Minpin]

Mercruiser is nothing more than a poor copy of Volvo.

And, they are GM engines. 

Ever had one break on you? We had a two crownlines over a span of ten years, not a single problem in either boat. Now we have had two boats with a pair of cummins in them and again no problems. What do you think is bad bout mercruiser?

[hounddog]

Never said it was bad, just a poor copy.  And, yes, I had a 1998 Sea Ray 185 with a 4.3l Alpha one Mercruiser and a 1984 Sea Ray with a 5.0l Mercruiser.  Both had to be repaired a couple times.

I have had my 2003 Doral with twin 5.7 GXi Volvo Duo-props since new.  Zero problems.  Well, I did hit a submerged log and one of the outdrives exploded.  But that is not really Volvos fault.  Mine either, for that matter.   

My point, however, was that Mercruiser has not had one invention in stern drive applications.
Stern drive was invented by Volvo.
Duo-prop (or bravo III for Mercruiser) was invented by Volvo.
Cone clutch was invented by Volvo.
Rotational drive units were developed and patented by Volvo for recreational boats.
First v8 inboard was brought forth by Crusader.
First fuel injected marine engine was brought forth by Indmar.
First trim and tilt outboard was invented by Volvo.

See the trend?  Mercruiser does not lead the way, they follow.

[Minpin]

Never said it was bad, just a poor copy.  And, yes, I had a 1998 Sea Ray 185 with a 4.3l Alpha one Mercruiser and a 1984 Sea Ray with a 5.0l Mercruiser.  Both had to be repaired a couple times.

I have had my 2003 Doral with twin 5.7 GXi Volvo Duo-props since new.  Zero problems.  Well, I did hit a submerged log and one of the outdrives exploded.  But that is not really Volvos fault.  Mine either, for that matter.   

My point, however, was that Mercruiser has not had one invention in stern drive applications.
Stern drive was invented by Volvo.
Duo-prop (or bravo III for Mercruiser) was invented by Volvo.
Cone clutch was invented by Volvo.
Rotational drive units were developed and patented by Volvo for recreational boats.
First v8 inboard was brought forth by Crusader.
First fuel injected marine engine was brought forth by Indmar.
First trim and tilt outboard was invented by Volvo.

See the trend?  Mercruiser does not lead the way, they follow.

Right, and Ferrari didn't invent the wheel, brakes, engines, steering wheels, etc etc you get my point. I respect your opinion though because I know if I don't you come in here all rageaholic. 

[hounddog]

Right, and Ferrari didn't invent the wheel, brakes, engines, steering wheels, etc etc you get my point. I respect your opinion though because I know if I don't you come in here all rageaholic. 

Nice.  As usual I try to have a civil conversation, but am lambasted for liking something other than what I am supposed to like. 

I like innovators who are ahead of the competition, not manufacturers who are trying to keep up.  But, I guess that makes me an asshole. 

I truely love how you ask a question, I answer it and then you start with the personal attacks before our conversation even comes close to confrontation.    And then you guys wonder why I do not even try anymore. 

[ChrisV]

I'm probably completely wrong, but isn't it a Cosworth Ford that's in the Noble?

if there is a Cosworth tuned engine in there, it's not the DFV racing engine that nethead mentioned. there were a lot of Cosworth modified engines out there, but the ones mentioned were pure racing engines.

[sportyaccordy]

The VQ WAS an exceptionally smooth motor before it jumped up to 3.5L.

My VQ30 maxima was amazingly smooth, it is easily as smooth or smoother than the 4.4 V8 in my BMW as well as several new cars including newer 3.5 VQ's. It's too bad that in order to increase power nissan has had to sacrifice such smoothness.

It was only when they upped the power for the RWD versions. The VQ in my dad's I35 was no less smooth than the one in my Maxima.

[S204STi]

if there is a Cosworth tuned engine in there, it's not the DFV racing engine that nethead mentioned. there were a lot of Cosworth modified engines out there, but the ones mentioned were pure racing engines.

Reminds me of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth_Vega#Engine

[r0tor]

if we are including race engines, then...
24hrs LeMans winner
Made more power, got better fuel economy, weighed less, and fit into a smaller package then anything out there
infintately varialble length intake runners 

[Madman]

Cosworth also designed the DOHC 16 valve cylinder head for the Volvo B234F (and the Europe-only B204) which were the only twin cam, multi-valve versions of the venerable Red Block.  The only thing I don't like about the B234F is that it is an interference design and changing the timing belt is an expensive job (and a major PITA) because you also have to change the belt for the balancer shaft, too.

For simplicity sake, I'll stick with the SOHC eight valve (and non-interference) B230F/B230FT.


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Nethead]

BMW I6s. They're buttery smooth, they're light, well balanced, fuel efficient and they sound great too. They've almost always been at the tops of their respective classes.

Those Bimmer Sixes are hosses in the Grand Am Grand Sport class, too!

[Nethead]

Yeah, that's why I went with versatility instead of an engine that ONLY won some races. For example, that Cossie mentioned above was an excellent F1 engine, but I doubt it had much impact outside of that limited scope, and was not as comfortable in a daily driver, offroader, aircraft, or industrial application.

ChrisV:  ChrisDude, not only did the Cosworth-Ford DFV (for "Double Four Valve"--two Formula 2 Ford four-cylinders united in a "V" by the engineers at Cosworth) utterly dominate Formula 1, but in turbo configuration it utterly dominated Indy cars as well.  That outright win at the 24 Hours of LeMans around 1975 was just icing on the cake.  This should have been the engine in the original Lotus Esprit, but that was an expensive car in its day even with the four-cylinder Renault powerplant. (Then, too, Esprits had a dreadful reliability reputation without the horsepower and torque that would have been available with the 3.0L V8!). 

Whether anyone ever dropped one into a daily, an ORV, or an aircraft I positively have no clue.  At 3.0 Liters, it was waaayyy underdisplaced for the typical drop-in engine of that era even if it might have been the best gasoline engine in the world up to that time...

I seem to recall some boutique supercar manufacturer had plans to offer a mid-engined sportscar using the Cosworth-Ford DFV V8 as the powerplant, but all I can vaguely recall were some "artist's renderings" and never did I see a photo or an article afterwards.  Did it actually happen?  The Nethead here does not know, but I'd speculate that it didn't.

In any case, the Cosworth-Ford was likely waaaayyy too expensive for even an exotic, although I have no idea what they cost back in the day relative to the other Formula 1/Indy engines that were for sale at the time.  I might could have afforded a set of sparkplugs or velocity stacks for a Cosworth at the time, if they offered free shipping & handling...

[Onslaught]

if we are including race engines, then...
24hrs LeMans winner
Made more power, got better fuel economy, weighed less, and fit into a smaller package then anything out there
infintately varialble length intake runners 

You forgot the sound too.

[hotrodalex]

sounds like pretty much any LS series V8...

But others don't make as much power. Therefore the power-weight ratio isn't as good. But of course they are great too. I just chose to mention the top dog.

[r0tor]

You forgot the sound too.

oh yes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1BWv7iPFUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7w7110SkQ

[hounddog]

You know, we have all forgotten to mention the Aurora V8.   Great all around engine, made a fantastic race car engine, also had very good sound and economy. 

Definately one of the all time greats.