Best engines of all time

[Madman]

You know, we have all forgotten to mention the Aurora V8.   Great all around engine, made a fantastic race car engine, also had very good sound and economy. 

Definately one of the all time greats.

The Oldsmobile Aurora V8 was a derivation of the Cadillac Northstar engine.  Nobody's mentioned the Northstar yet?  That's a surprise.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[ChrisV]

ChrisV:  ChrisDude, not only did the Cosworth-Ford DFV (for "Double Four Valve"--two Formula 2 Ford four-cylinders united in a "V" by the engineers at Cosworth) utterly dominate Formula 1, but in turbo configuration it utterly dominated Indy cars as well.  That outright win at the 24 Hours of LeMans around 1975 was just icing on the cake.  This should have been the engine in the original Lotus Esprit, but that was an expensive car in its day even with the four-cylinder Renault powerplant. (Then, too, Esprits had a dreadful reliability reputation without the horsepower and torque that would have been available with the 3.0L V8!). 

Whether anyone ever dropped one into a daily, an ORV, or an aircraft I positively have no clue.  At 3.0 Liters, it was waaayyy underdisplaced for the typical drop-in engine of that era even if it might have been the best gasoline engine in the world up to that time...

This is why I discouted it, as well as any other pure racing engine from my selection of bests. The engines I did select have been dominant in many areas of motorsport, as well as so many other areas. You can have something that is the very best in a very limited focus, but that doesn't make it best overall. Kind of like asking what's the best car. A car that won LeMans a couple times (like, say, the Porsche 956/962) would make a great case as the best at that particular thing, but still be a pretty horrible car ovarall at the job of being a car. And the Ford F350 might be a king at towing and work truck versatility, but suck for comfort and racing.

So when I picked the best automotive engines, I chose engines that have been very successful in an absolutely staggering array of uses, from reliable street drivers ina n amazingly wide range of vehicles, off road ability, racing use (drag racing, circle track, AND road racing, production based cars to formula cars and sprint cars), as well as industrial, marine, and aircraft use. And they've been that outstanding and versatile for decades. Aside from the air cooled VW and small block Chevy, no engines can really claim that, though a few have come close (like the small block Ford)

[SVT666]

Ford 427 found in everything from the Mustang to the Cobra to the GT40.

[GoCougs]

The Northstar, though revolutionary for its time (and infinitely so for GM) is a below average motor. That GM still makes it today is a real shame.

[FoMoJo]

Yeah, that's why I went with versatility instead of an engine that ONLY won some races. For example, that Cossie mention ed above was an excellent F1 engine, but I doubt it had much impact outside of that limited scope, and was not as comfortable in a daily driver, offroader, aircraft, or industrial application.

Considering that the topic is 'best engines of all time', I expect that means engines that were the best at whatever use they were meant for within their era.  I doubt that there is only one engine that can be considered the overall best; unless you want to consider this one...


That the DFV dominated what has long been considered the pinnacle of motorsport for an extended period of time and amassed more wins that any other f1 engine, it can certainly be considered as the best 'racing' engine of 'that' time.  Those interested in a bit of history can read this article.

Again, there is a mention of use in 'sports cars' but no examples. The only ones I'm aware of are these...

[SVT666]

The best engine of all time that has excelled in every possible use is the Chevy small block.

Sports cars, muscle cars, trucks, luxury cars, kit cars, racing cars, ski boats, racing boats, and whatever else it's ever been in.

[TBR]

You know, we have all forgotten to mention the Aurora V8.   Great all around engine, made a fantastic race car engine, also had very good sound and economy. 

Definately one of the all time greats.

Not even close.

I am sure Roy would be happy to fill you in.

[GoCougs]

The best engine of all time that has excelled in every possible use is the Chevy small block.

Sports cars, muscle cars, trucks, luxury cars, kit cars, racing cars, ski boats, racing boats, and whatever else it's ever been in.

But how exactly? It was popular, it did its duty, but it had issues:

Fragile in 2-bolt main form (of which most were)
Mega weak flimsy stamped-steel timing chain cover design (Ford and Mopar were cast aluminum and far beefier)
Rear mount distributor (Ford, Mopar big block, most other GM V8s had front mount for easier servicing)
Required that the distributor be pulled to remove intake manifold (No other engine had this "feature" save for the Chevy big block)
Siamese intake and exhaust ports (Ford and most other GM V8s had equally-spaced ports for better cooling)
Small diameter lifters (Mopar had larger diameter lifters for steeper lift on cam lobe = more power with fewer driveability concerns)
Pedestal-mount rocker arms (Mopar had shaft mounted rockers which were more stable at higher RPM)

[ChrisV]

Considering that the topic is 'best engines of all time', I expect that means engines that were the best at whatever use they were meant for within their era. 

Well, that's like saying the best car is then the most successful road racing car.

I thought he was going for best overall, not best in one particular category, because that's going to make for some very different criteria. Kind of like choosing the driving champion vs the winner of an individual race.

[Cobra93]

Not even close.

I am sure Roy would be happy to fill you in.

And if Roy won't, I will. The Northstar is a total POS. I make a good living on Northstar sales alone.

[Cobra93]

The Oldsmobile Aurora V8 was a derivation of the Cadillac Northstar engine.  Nobody's mentioned the Northstar yet?  That's a surprise.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

I'm still laughing from the last guy that mentioned the Northstar.

[Onslaught]

http://www.moyermade.com/chevyV8.html

[Tave]

Well, that's like saying the best car is then the most successful road racing car.

I thought he was going for best overall, not best in one particular category, because that's going to make for some very different criteria. Kind of like choosing the driving champion vs the winner of an individual race.

Nah, I look at it more like, "Best Athlete of all Time." It's not like there's one correct answer to this; you can make a case for a lot of athletes (engines) based on the variety of their accomplishments. You don't have to pick a decathlete just because he's one of the most rounded.

[r0tor]

The best engine of all time that has excelled in every possible use is the Chevy small block.

Sports cars, muscle cars, trucks, luxury cars, kit cars, racing cars, ski boats, racing boats, and whatever else it's ever been in.

The 13b rotary engine can be found in cars, trucks, airplanes, boats, and motorcycles -shrug-

[SVT666]

The 13b rotary engine can be found in cars, trucks, airplanes, boats, and motorcycles -shrug-

But it never excelled in every application.

[S204STi]

Not even close.

I am sure Roy would be happy to fill you in.

And if Roy won't, I will. The Northstar is a total POS. I make a good living on Northstar sales alone.

Ah, missed this one.

I have issues with the design.  It's physically a huge engine, and while being technically sophisticated it still isn't as good at its job as the somewhat crude small block design.  Also, some design features that seemed appealing at the time are more of a liability down the road.  Mainly I am talking about the two-piece bottom end, which tends to leak badly resulting in a very expensive repair.  Cobra, I'm sure, is even more aware of other mechanical failings.  I don't do much engine repair, so that is the limit of my knowledge.

I used to have a problem with the water pump placement on these, but I have decided that it works out ok on a FWD vehicle.  It would be a bit more difficult on a RWD car.

[Cobra93]

Ah, missed this one.

I have issues with the design.  It's physically a huge engine, and while being technically sophisticated it still isn't as good at its job as the somewhat crude small block design.  Also, some design features that seemed appealing at the time are more of a liability down the road.  Mainly I am talking about the two-piece bottom end, which tends to leak badly resulting in a very expensive repair.  Cobra, I'm sure, is even more aware of other mechanical failings.  I don't do much engine repair, so that is the limit of my knowledge.

Can't keep head gaskets in them. The head bolts loosen up in the aluminum block and stop clamping the gaskets. The fix is to machine the block out and install timeserts during the remanufacturing process.

[S204STi]

Can't keep head gaskets in them. The head bolts loosen up in the aluminum block and stop clamping the gaskets. The fix is to machine the block out and install timeserts during the remanufacturing process.

Gotcha.  Have to wonder why they don't timesert those aluminum blocks in the first place.  I was doing an alternator on an Ecotec and had to timesert it for that as well.  I wiped out the threads without even trying.

[MX793]

The 13b rotary engine can be found in cars, trucks, airplanes, boats, and motorcycles -shrug-

Who put a 13b in a motorcycle?

[r0tor]

there are several one-offs

though not a 13B, Norton is going to be racing a scaled down rotary engine since the 13B would be too large in displacement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph-n7-naQxo



The 13B is also in tons and tons of personal aircraft

[MX793]

there are several one-offs

though not a 13B, Norton is going to be racing a scaled down rotary engine since the 13B would be too large in displacement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph-n7-naQxo



The 13B is also in tons and tons of personal aircraft

The rotary Norton isn't a new thing.  Norton was fielding rotary powered bikes back in the 80s (Suzuki also sold a rotary bike way back in the mid 70s).  That NRV588 isn't even a new motor, it's a refurbed and upgraded motor that they dug out of the mothballs from Norton's racing efforts in the early 90s.  It's certainly not a "downsized" 13b.  No moreso than a 350 SBC is a downsized 454 big block.

[r0tor]

you say potatoes, i say braapapppapppappa

[The Pirate]

Ah, missed this one.

I have issues with the design.  It's physically a huge engine, and while being technically sophisticated it still isn't as good at its job as the somewhat crude small block design.  Also, some design features that seemed appealing at the time are more of a liability down the road.  Mainly I am talking about the two-piece bottom end, which tends to leak badly resulting in a very expensive repair.  Cobra, I'm sure, is even more aware of other mechanical failings.  I don't do much engine repair, so that is the limit of my knowledge.

I used to have a problem with the water pump placement on these, but I have decided that it works out ok on a FWD vehicle.  It would be a bit more difficult on a RWD car.

I'm pretty sure the starter motor is down in the V between the cylinder banks too, thus requiring the intake manifold to be removed to replace the starter.

Bonehead design move there.

[S204STi]

I'm pretty sure the starter motor is down in the V between the cylinder banks too, thus requiring the intake manifold to be removed to replace the starter.

Bonehead design move there.

I can't seem to remember where it is on that engine, but my impression is that you're correct.  That said, intake replacement on that motor is very simple.

[hounddog]

Ah, missed this one.

I have issues with the design.  It's physically a huge engine,

So is the 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine. 

and while being technically sophisticated it still isn't as good at its job as the somewhat crude small block design.  Also, some design features that seemed appealing at the time are more of a liability down the road.  Mainly I am talking about the two-piece bottom end, which tends to leak badly resulting in a very expensive repair.  Cobra, I'm sure, is even more aware of other mechanical failings.  I don't do much engine repair, so that is the limit of my knowledge.

[/quote]My mom had a '96 Aurora that she put about 105,000 miles on.  The only probelms she had with the car were the front passenger window motor quit, and the door seals were fragile and had to be replaced a couple times. 

One of my sister-in-laws bought it around 2002 is still driving the car, and as far as I know has yet to have any problems with it. 

I still think the line was a very good engine line, and the STS was a very fast car for its day. 

[the Teuton]

How has Payman done with his STS?

[S204STi]

So is the 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine. 

My mom had a '96 Aurora that she put about 105,000 miles on.  The only probelms she had with the car were the front passenger window motor quit, and the door seals were fragile and had to be replaced a couple times. 

One of my sister-in-laws bought it around 2002 is still driving the car, and as far as I know has yet to have any problems with it. 

I still think the line was a very good engine line, and the STS was a very fast car for its day. 

Yeah, it's not bad necessarily.  I just think they blew it on some details.

[hounddog]

GM blow something? 

Say it aint so, Joe!

[S204STi]

GM blow something? 

Say it aint so, Joe!

[S204STi]

The Oldsmobile Aurora V8 was a derivation of the Cadillac Northstar engine.  Nobody's mentioned the Northstar yet?  That's a surprise.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

We've been talking about it; it's more or less the same motor, or at least the same family.