My engine...what's wrong!?

[r0tor]

i got lost at Verteilerkappe... lol

[MexicoCityM3]

Get a rental for your photography gig. The SL won't probably be ready by Friday.

[cawimmer430]

UPDATE!!!

I just started the up the 500SL to see if it would start and if the problem was still there. Amazingly the car started up right away, no hassle at all. And the engine was idling smoothly at precisely 900 RPM. "Had to problem gone away by itself?", I thought.

The transmission was in "P" so I press the accelerator slowly and give it a very light rev up to about 1,200 RPM. That's when the trouble started again. The engine RPM then began fluctuating between 900 all the way down to 400 RPM again although I have to say the vibrations weren't as bad as they were yesterday (I wish that was a good sign...). The smell of unburnt gasoline was still there, though, when I exited the car a few seconds later.

My father thinks I can risk driving down to M?hldorf on Friday with the car, do my job and drive back to Munich with the Mercedes E320.


Here's a little question. Can this "problem" (whatever it is - spark plug timing, fuel pump etc.) be fixed if I drive a little faster? My father thinks it is a lack of driving which did this to the engine so his advice (yep, his advice) was to "drive fast" on the Autobahn that leads from Munich to M?hldorf. IS THAT REALLY SAFE? CAN I DO THAT? 


Thanks for all the help so far. 

I'm as far from an expert as you can get here, mechanically, but it's possible that the weather conditions could have aided in wear of lines or wires, or something of the sort.  I remember when my brother's car started having problems, it was a few cranks before the engine would finally turn on.  I thought it was heat related (it was over the summer), but then later on we learned otherwise. 

In my truly novice opinion, I'd say if it's not the spark plugs, it could be the fuel lines, because he had both of those replaced before his car started running again.

Thanks for the info. 

You may have fouled plugs by either crap fuel or water in the fuel.  That just occured to me.

Thanks for the info. 

[cawimmer430]

Unburnt fuel small, loss of power and engine stuttering leads me to suspect misfire.  Could be as simple as a plug wire that has come loose and has an inconsistant connection.  Could be one or more fouled sparkplugs.  Could be the plugs just need to be changed.  Could be one or more bad plug wires.  Worst case is that there is a problem with the ignition.  Did those have a distributor or were they coil on plug ignition?

Thanks for the info. 

I'm not very technically knowledgeable so I hope these pictures can help you out (not mine since I don't have any pics of engine at the moment and am too lazy to take some shots of the motor...). If I were to guess I'd say the engine still uses a distributor. Most google searches seem to hint at that as well. 

[cawimmer430]

Get a rental for your photography gig. The SL won't probably be ready by Friday.

I'm even thinking of borrowing a 55-hp VW Polo from a friend.   

[S204STi]

Best to remove the plugs, clean off whatever fouling there might be, and then take it on a nice flogging.  (Basically give it an Italian Tuneup).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

You can use a brush or even better a creme brulee torch to burn off the fouling right around the electrodes.

[cawimmer430]

Best to remove the plugs, clean off whatever fouling there might be, and then take it on a nice flogging.  (Basically give it an Italian Tuneup).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup

Sounds like a plan. 

Can't wait for the "Italian tune-up" - Munich is surrounded by Autobahns. 

[S204STi]

Sounds like a plan. 

Can't wait for the "Italian tune-up" - Munich is surrounded by Autobahns. 

haha nice.

How much fuel is in the tank?  Consider running it down a good way and putting in some fresh stuff, along with fuel stabilizer if this vehicle sits for long periods on the same tank of gas.

[cawimmer430]

haha nice.

How much fuel is in the tank?  Consider running it down a good way and putting in some fresh stuff, along with fuel stabilizer if this vehicle sits for long periods on the same tank of gas.

The fuel tank is actually more than 3/4 full. Which makes me wonder if the fuel quality had something to do with it. Knowing my dad, he refueled in Austria where gas is much cheaper. The gas station he usually visits is small and almost family-run. Makes me wonder if they did something to the fuel...   

[S204STi]

Sounds like a plan.  

Can't wait for the "Italian tune-up" - Munich is surrounded by Autobahns.  

Just keep in mind that once the plugs are fouled it's possible that they will stay that way, in which case you're just pumping unburned fuel through the cylinder, washing down the walls and getting fuel into your crank case as well.  Make sure it's firing right on all cylinders before you drive it too much or too hard.  I want to make sure I emphasized that point.

Therefore it is important that you at the very least remove the spark plugs, clean them, and maybe even let the vehicle sit overnight without the plugs in to air dry the cylinders that were misfiring.

[cawimmer430]

Just keep in mind that once the plugs are fouled it's possible that they will stay that way, in which case you're just pumping unburned fuel through the cylinder, washing down the walls and getting fuel into your crank case as well.  Make sure it's firing right on all cylinders before you drive it too much or too hard.  I want to make sure I emphasized that point.

Therefore it is important that you at the very least remove the spark plugs, clean them, and maybe even let the vehicle sit overnight without the plugs in to air dry the cylinders that were misfiring.

GOOD ADVICE. 

I will have a detailed look at the engine tonight but I doubt I have the knowledge to remove the spark plugs correctly and then put them back in the right way too. I'll see if the instruction manual offers any help on that.

The distance from Munich to M?hldorf is 79 km (50 miles). If I take the 500SL there is such a distance doable, you think? Because I would feel a lot better if the car was in M?hldorf and I could take the E320 back.

[S204STi]

GOOD ADVICE. 

I will have a detailed look at the engine tonight but I doubt I have the knowledge to remove the spark plugs correctly and then put them back in the right way too. I'll see if the instruction manual offers any help on that.

The distance from Munich to M?hldorf is 79 km (50 miles). If I take the 500SL there is such a distance doable, you think? Because I would feel a lot better if the car was in M?hldorf and I could take the E320 back.

Well if leaving the car in Muhldorf allows you to use it less and minimize potential damage to the vehicle, go ahead and do that.  In the process you might find it clears up, who knows?

[VTEC_Inside]

The problem I see is that it will probably smooth out at higher speeds but not because its running any better, only because of inertia.

If it doesn't start firing on all 8 you run the risk of destroying/clogging the cat because the unburnt fuel will start to burn up in it and melt it.

That said, it will probably make it 80kms. Personally would have pulled that cover already and started snooping around... C'mon wimmer, you can do it!

[cawimmer430]

Well if leaving the car in Muhldorf allows you to use it less and minimize potential damage to the vehicle, go ahead and do that.  In the process you might find it clears up, who knows?

I was thinking the fast driving could help things a bit. You see, when I leave Munich it takes about 15 minutes to reach the Autobahn I need and by then the car is properly warmed up. Then we have an Autobahn extending for about 35 km with no speed limit. Perhaps the high speeds and high RPMs can help the problem (drying the foul spark plugs perhaps in some way???). After the Autobahn the rest of the journey is on a state roads where you can drive 100 km/h.

I would really feel better with the E320. It's more comfortable and handles better (yep!). The 500SL just feels so wrong as a city car. I have trouble parking this massive car in the small parking garages here. I really need the BMW 118i. 

[cawimmer430]

The problem I see is that it will probably smooth out at higher speeds but not because its running any better, only because of inertia.

If it doesn't start firing on all 8 you run the risk of destroying/clogging the cat because the unburnt fuel will start to burn up in it and melt it.

That said, it will probably make it 80kms. Personally would have pulled that cover already and started snooping around... C'mon wimmer, you can do it!

THANKS FOR THE WARNING.  

Tell you what. I'll take a look later and I'll take some pictures and a video too. Ok? Maybe you guys can see something that might be wrong with the motor. I'll take some videos of the engine running etc.  

[S204STi]

THANKS FOR THE WARNING. 

Tell you what. I'll take a look later and I'll take some pictures and a video too. Ok? Maybe you guys can see something wrong. 

Awesome, I look forward to hearing your sexy voice.

[cawimmer430]

Awesome, I look forward to hearing your sexy voice.

[cawimmer430]

VIDEOS

1) Engine startup and engine noise upclose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8vmWUqHbEc


2) Engine off, details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKggRCPaFME

[S204STi]

So it looks like it's not a hard misfire, or else I would have expected to see the engine shaking somewhat in the engine bay, and the tail pipe would have probably been wagging a bit too.  Seems like a rough idle basically, not necessarily a full-on misfire.  It does look like you have to remove a lot of things to get at the plugs on that engine, and the fuel seems to be in question, so there seems like enough variables there to to consider taking it into the shop at your leisure.  For now I'd say you're safe taking it to Muldorf and swapping our cars for now, but it doesn't seem like an urgent problem. 

Maybe someone else has a different interpretation, feel free to throw it out there...

[cawimmer430]

So it looks like it's not a hard misfire, or else I would have expected to see the engine shaking somewhat in the engine bay, and the tail pipe would have probably been wagging a bit too.  Seems like a rough idle basically, not necessarily a full-on misfire.  It does look like you have to remove a lot of things to get at the plugs on that engine, and the fuel seems to be in question, so there seems like enough variables there to to consider taking it into the shop at your leisure.  For now I'd say you're safe taking it to Muldorf and swapping our cars for now, but it doesn't seem like an urgent problem. 

Maybe someone else has a different interpretation, feel free to throw it out there...

Good to hear that the problem might not be as severe. The rough idle sounds plausible when you think about it.

Any idea though why the car wouldn't start yesterday after a few tries? Might indeed be a spark plug related problem, eh?


Got to go. Lot's of work for school to finish. 

[VTEC_Inside]

I just did some quick research and that isn't the distributor out back there... That car uses a Bosch KE-5 Jetronic MECHANICAL-Electrical fuel injection system.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-?page=14

I really can't tell whats going on from the videos, but I still suspect ignition problems.

[VTEC_Inside]

Ok, so a little further digging has indicated that the car has two ignition coils (one on either side of the engine bay), and two distributors...



Be nice if all that plastic wasn't in the way...

Just another word of warning, as I was googling away, the prices I was seeing for some of these parts weren't pretty.

[cawimmer430]

VTEC is the man! 

Yeah, the spare parts for the SL are expensive because it is a Benz and an SL. 

I gotta run and do some work now. Just checked back in real quick to see if there was something new here...

[CALL_911]

I can't really contribute much to this thread, but man, that thing looks amazing.

[TBR]

I had an almost identical problem, though it was a bit more stubborn. Turned out that the PO had installed an alarm system and then removed it prior to me buying the car. They failed to reconnect one of the wires properly. A wire nut later and it hasn't caused me any more problems. I suspect your problem is something similar, a loose connection somewhere in the ignition system.

[Cobra93]

Does this fuel injection system have some variation of a throttle position sensor?

[Raza]

The fuel tank is actually more than 3/4 full. Which makes me wonder if the fuel quality had something to do with it. Knowing my dad, he refueled in Austria where gas is much cheaper. The gas station he usually visits is small and almost family-run. Makes me wonder if they did something to the fuel...   

My brother was running on Wawa fuel (great hoagies, bad gas) when his engine fouled up. 

[r0tor]

how bad does it smell... my smellavision seems to be broken  


I'd say step one should be take the engine cover off and just make sure all the spark plugs and sparkplug wires are still attached

step 2 might be have the engine running and spray the distributor caps with a water spray bottle and see if the engine dies...

[Cobra93]

step 2 might be have the engine running and spray the distributor caps with a water spray bottle and see if the engine dies...

Make sure you're leaning against the car when the water completes that electrical circuit.

[S204STi]

Make sure you're leaning against the car when the water completes that electrical circuit.

I've never seen that cause a problem for the individual, have you?