Promises, Promises

[MrH]

My opinions aren't factually wrong.  Facts are facts.  And my opinions can't be facts.

But I do agree that my opinion stands in conflict with a lot of other people's opinions.  Drive the E46 and E90 on the street, back-to-back.  I don't care if the E90 is a better track car because people rarely track their cars.  The 46 is a more enthralling DD.

Your opinion that the 335i feels like it has more torque than the M3 is factually wrong.  The M3 makes more torque at the wheels at any reasonable engine speed in any given gear.

[S204STi]

If I could afford the costs of ownership, I'd get an E46 M3 in a heartbeat.  There are very few cars I can say that about right now.  I believe I got enough seat time to figure that one out.

Any of the M3 or M5 brigade up till the current gen are cars that I would (and could afford to) own.  Particularly the last-gen M5.  Saw a blue one the other day, and thought I was in heaven, following him around colorado like a puppy to his master.

[S204STi]

Your opinion that the 335i feels like it has more torque than the M3 is factually wrong.  The M3 makes more torque at the wheels at any reasonable engine speed in any given gear.

Come on man, it's an objective observation about feel.  You can't break down a feeling into facts and have it make sense.  Some cars just feel like they have more thrust than they really do.

[MrH]

Come on man, it's an objective observation about feel.  You can't break down a feeling into facts and have it make sense.  Some cars just feel like they have more thrust than they really do.

He said the M3 was relatively torqueless by comparison, yet the M3 makes more torque at the wheels in any given situation.  It just proves you can't get a feel for these things by driving them around a parking lot a few times.

[the Teuton]

Your opinion that the 335i feels like it has more torque than the M3 is factually wrong.  The M3 makes more torque at the wheels at any reasonable engine speed in any given gear.

What you engineering peeps don't realize is that seat of the pants is often a better indicator than some graphs and charts.

Speaking of engineering, go to the SAE site and see if there are any books you're interested in.  Srsly.

[S204STi]

He said the M3 was relatively torqueless by comparison, yet the M3 makes more torque at the wheels in any given situation.  It just proves you can't get a feel for these things by driving them around a parking lot a few times.

Well that's true too.  Sometimes it takes a particular road to really get a feel for that sort of thing.  Missilling out of a corner in a taller gear than the other car is generally a good indication of superior torque.

[MrH]

What you engineering peeps don't realize is that seat of the pants is often a better indicator than some graphs and charts.

Speaking of engineering, go to the SAE site and see if there are any books you're interested in.  Srsly.

My pants aren't calibrated.  You provide the calibration specs on your pants, and I'll believe you  

[the Teuton]

My pants aren't calibrated.  You provide the calibration specs on your pants, and I'll believe you  

I don't give the specifications of what's in, out of, or around my pants to people like you.

[Raza]

All your reviews read the same to me.  And most cars you blast without driving them, and you end up praising cars that you claim you should hate.  You seem to hate every car until you drive it, and after that you seem to like most cars.

Maybe you need to just get out and drive more cars without being such a negative nancy.  Maybe this car will serve as a point you shouldn't hate every new car because it's a little heavy.

Hey, if you don't like the reviews, don't read them. 

[MX793]

Your opinion that the 335i feels like it has more torque than the M3 is factually wrong.  The M3 makes more torque at the wheels at any reasonable engine speed in any given gear.

Torque at the wheels at engine speed isn't what you sense, it's torque at the wheels at a given road speed.  Depending on how they're geared, the 335i may feel like it has more grunt when you punch it at 35 mph than the M3 if you're cruising at a "reasonable" gear for that speed.

[MX793]

What you engineering peeps don't realize is that seat of the pants is often a better indicator than some graphs and charts.

Speaking of engineering, go to the SAE site and see if there are any books you're interested in.  Srsly.

A seat of your pants sensation that something is faster doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

[MrH]

Torque at the wheels at engine speed isn't what you sense, it's torque at the wheels at a given road speed.  Depending on how they're geared, the 335i may feel like it has more grunt when you punch it at 35 mph than the M3 if you're cruising at a "reasonable" gear for that speed.

My response to that is, "Teuts, stop driving like such a nancy."  There's no excuse to putt-putt around in an M3 in 6th gear.

[the Teuton]

My response to that is, "Teuts, stop driving like such a nancy."  There's no excuse to putt-putt around in an M3 in 6th gear.

I got it up to fifth gear in in-town driving.  I was basically coasting at that point.  During my tenure, I only drove one 6-speed and one SMG.  The season after I worked there is when they released the DCT transmission.

[MrH]

I got it up to fifth gear in in-town driving.  I was basically coasting at that point.  During my tenure, I only drove one 6-speed and one SMG.  The season after I worked there is when they released the DCT transmission.

As cool as the dual clutch stuff is technically to me, I still like that goofy third pedal.  I had a DSG in the Scirocco when I was on the 'Ring.  I don't think I'd buy one if given the choice.  Throw in the fact it's usually an extra grand or two, and I definitely wouldn't get one.  Was the old SMG as jerky at slow speeds as everyone says it is?

[the Teuton]

As cool as the dual clutch stuff is technically to me, I still like that goofy third pedal.  I had a DSG in the Scirocco when I was on the 'Ring.  I don't think I'd buy one if given the choice.  Throw in the fact it's usually an extra grand or two, and I definitely wouldn't get one.  Was the old SMG as jerky at slow speeds as everyone says it is?

Remember how I mentioned that you could feel the shift shock in the 6A more than I thought was appropriate in a lux car?  Most people disagree with me on that one, too, but I didn't think the SMG was really that  much worse. (I drove plenty more SMG E46s, 550is, M5s, and M6s than I ever did E90 M3s).  I didn't like how it wouldn't hold the gear for you -- it shifted into the next gear in the upper rev range just like an auto, and the shifts were more abrupt than a standard automatic.  But I didn't think it was was really that rough.  It wasn't good by lux car standards or really even modern auto standards, and it really wasn't that fun at in-town speeds, but it probably would have been ok on a track.  It wasn't too jerky, either.

It also didn't creep forward like an auto or manual when it's at the engagement point, so it was a little weird.  I probably wouldn't get one in a car, either.  Not my cup of tea at all.

[CALL_911]

Speaking of older M-cars, my uncle has an E46 M3 that I'll be driving next month, from mid-Jersey to central PA. 

[SVT666]

But at what cost?  Besides the Viper and Vette, the others are vault-like.  Ford engineers even had to go back through the 'Stang to run some tubing to make sure you could hear the exhaust.  It was that quiet.

What does that have to do with being fun?  Yes, noise adds to the excitement, but it's not what makes a car fun.

[the Teuton]

Cars aren't just about numbers.  Cars are about an experience.

[SVT666]

Cars aren't just about numbers.  Cars are about an experience.

I'm not talking about numbers.  I'm talking about the experience.  By the way, Ford engineers put that tube in to hear the exhaust because they were engineering fun into the car which is what you said they weren't doing.

[GoCougs]

Sat in one this weekend. No V8s in the area nor the lot, so no interest in a test drive.

The interior definitely has a cockpit type feel, but in such a car it works okay IMO. In the 300C, which is somewhat similar experience I found, not so much.

It's every bit the knockout in person. It's amazing IMO that GM had the gumption to bring such a bold car to market.

[the Teuton]

I'm not talking about numbers.  I'm talking about the experience.  By the way, Ford engineers put that tube in to hear the exhaust because they were engineering fun into the car which is what you said they weren't doing.

I think I stand corrected.  I think.

[CALL_911]

I think I stand corrected.  I think.

Shouldn't be the first time in this thread.

[the Teuton]

Shouldn't be the first time in this thread.

Your whore mouth can shut anytime now.