tC needs new tires

[Eye of the Tiger]

Can we just remember that FWD relies on static weight distribution for its traction advantage, while RWD has the advantage dynamically? It's not rocket science.

[Raza]

Pretty sure you're making that up.

Remember MB traction control never turns off, perhaps that was the reason?

It never stopped me from doing burnouts or doughnuts. 

[TBR]

It never stopped me from doing burnouts or doughnuts. 

Then tires probably?

The only a very well balanced FWD car would have worse traction than a RWD car since there will be more weight over the drive wheels.

[MX793]

I'm pretty sure that FWD have inherently worse traction than RWD cars, and are favored for foul weather because they bias to understeer in low traction situations whereas RWD cars bias to oversteer, which is considered less recoverable than understeer.  My friend's 140hp 91 Buick Regal could get wheelspin at a time my 221hp Mercedes could not under the same conditions.  Anyone should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or affirm if I am right. 

Traction is a function of how much weight you have over the drive wheels.  Since FWD cars will generally have a greater percentage of their weight over the drive wheels than an FR layout, they'll have more traction from a standstill than an FR car.  Throw weight transfer into the equation, and as the car accelerates the FF car loses traction while the FR car gains traction as weight shifts rearward.  On dry ground, the FF car will initially have more traction, but once accelerating the weight transfer will result in the FR car having more grip once under way.  However, in very low traction situations (snow and ice), weight transfer effect is not significant enough to allow the FR car to gain the traction advantage of the FF.

[Cookie Monster]

I'm pretty sure that FWD have inherently worse traction than RWD cars, and are favored for foul weather because they bias to understeer in low traction situations whereas RWD cars bias to oversteer, which is considered less recoverable than understeer.  My friend's 140hp 91 Buick Regal could get wheelspin at a time my 221hp Mercedes could not under the same conditions.  Anyone should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or affirm if I am right. 

No, it's because FWD cars have more weight over the drive wheels.

Why else do you think people with 2WD pickup trucks throw sandbags in the bed?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Traction is a function of how much weight you have over the drive wheels.  Since FWD cars will generally have a greater percentage of their weight over the drive wheels than an FR layout, they'll have more traction from a standstill than an FR car.  Throw weight transfer into the equation, and as the car accelerates the FF car loses traction while the FR car gains traction as weight shifts rearward.  On dry ground, the FF car will initially have more traction, but once accelerating the weight transfer will result in the FR car having more grip once under way.  However, in very low traction situations (snow and ice), weight transfer effect is not significant enough to allow the FR car to gain the traction advantage of the FF.

I just said that, but it only took one sentence.

[NomisR]

I just said that, but it only took one sentence.

I don't think people understood that though.

Easier explanation would be.. the only reason rear wheels are needed for FWD cars is to keep the back end from dragging on the ground.  Front wheels are responsible for all the traction for acceleration, braking and turning so it's more limited than RWD cars. 

[MrH]

An elastic compound that deforms onto a hard, coarse, irregular surface can hardly be described by the laws of friction in the high-school physics kinda way.

It reinforces that width doesn't always equal traction.  That's my point.

I've got 225s, and they can't keep my car stuck all that well.  I've got more power though.

[Raza]

It reinforces that width doesn't always equal traction.  That's my point.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what I was trying to say there.  I think I was combining wheel size (as in, will a 225 physically fit on your wheel) and then I started talking about traction.  Obviously tire width and traction are not the same.

[Raza]

No, it's because FWD cars have more weight over the drive wheels.

Why else do you think people with 2WD pickup trucks throw sandbags in the bed?

I'm not so sure.  In my experience, even in a straight line, FWD cars have less traction.  Hell, my dad's car won't break loose if I floor it in first, and that has nearly twice the power of my car. 

[MrH]

I'm not so sure.  In my experience, even in a straight line, FWD cars have less traction.  Hell, my dad's car won't break loose if I floor it in first, and that has nearly twice the power of my car. 

The faster you accelerate, the more weight is shifted towards the rear, which equals more traction.

From a stand still, FWD cars will have more traction initially.  If you're flooring it, the weight transfers rather quickly, and that advantage is lost.

That's why 911's are awesome.  Great traction from a stand still, that only improves once you start moving .

[SVT_Power]

That's why 911's are awesome.  Great traction from a stand still, that only improves once you start moving .

yeah until you hit the gas going around the corner and the rear comes around and you're done 

[The Pirate]

yeah until you hit the gas going around the corner and the rear comes around and you're done 

More like let off the gas.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It reinforces that width doesn't always equal traction.  That's my point.

All other things being equal, width does equal traction; that's my point.

[TBR]

I'm not so sure.  In my experience, even in a straight line, FWD cars have less traction.  Hell, my dad's car won't break loose if I floor it in first, and that has nearly twice the power of my car. 

But it's a Lexus which means it has uber-strength TC that can't be turned off. I bet a ES350 won't spin its wheels either.

[Raza]

But it's a Lexus which means it has uber-strength TC that can't be turned off. I bet a ES350 won't spin its wheels either.

Traction control isn't perfect.  There's not even a hint of wheelspin. 

Anyway, the explanations I'm getting have satisfied me.  That is, if we define "initially" as "the exact moment you hit the gas" and not a moment longer.

[rohan]

yeah until you hit the gas going around the corner and the rear comes around and you're done  

Well if you are doing it right you should be back on the gas right about half way through the turn and all the way out through it.  

set up
brake hard to load springs
hold proper entry position
hit apex/gas gas gas
exit turn

[S204STi]

Well if you are doing it right you should be back on the gas right about half way through the turn and all the way out through it. 

set up
brake hard to load springs
hold proper entry position
hit apex/gas gas gas
exit turn

Kinda like Slow In, Fast Out?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Kinda like Slow In, Fast Out?

I prefer fast in, fast out.

[SVT_Power]

I prefer fast in, fast out.

or fast in, fast into wall?

[S204STi]

I prefer fast in, fast out.

[Minpin]

I have an appointment tomorrow to get Goodyear Eagle GT's on it. My dad is friends with the owner so he gave us a good deal, and this was the best choice as far as performance/price goes that they have in stock. They look like decent enough tires, should do the job I ask of good enough.