Alfa Romeo CEO: MiTo probably not headed to U.S.

[2o6]

Then you missed it. It was a big deal over there and people couldn't believe that CR rated cars based on what some retarded owners reported. Either way, I think many people consider CR as a sort of light guide but not to be taken too seriously. Am I right?

Just about.

[NomisR]

Then you missed it. It was a big deal over there and people couldn't believe that CR rated cars based on what some retarded owners reported. Either way, I think many people consider CR as a sort of light guide but not to be taken too seriously. Am I right?

To be fair, CR is not just about reliability but also about overall liveability of the car to the general public, and that's American general public.  This means you won't be recommending an Elise to them even if it is the best driving car out there because they won't be able to take it. 

Plus, what enthusiasts deem as a good car does not equate a good car for the general consumer.  They want a car that's like their washer and dryer rather than a car.  They don't care about soul, heritage or driving, they want their appliance to be reliable and can do what they want.. or at most, they prefer the Subzero fridge over the Whirlpool for the extra panache.  That's it. 

[93JC]

But why is a Ford Explorer unreliable because the trunk door won't open fully when the rear is parked so close to your garage wall? Or why is a Hummer H2 a "poor quality" car because of its bad fuel economy? CR has issues, seriously.

You're thinking of J.D. Power & Assoc. survey, not Consumer Reports.

Consumer Reports doesn't actually say how they use their data.

[cawimmer430]

To be fair, CR is not just about reliability but also about overall liveability of the car to the general public, and that's American general public.  This means you won't be recommending an Elise to them even if it is the best driving car out there because they won't be able to take it. 

Plus, what enthusiasts deem as a good car does not equate a good car for the general consumer.  They want a car that's like their washer and dryer rather than a car.  They don't care about soul, heritage or driving, they want their appliance to be reliable and can do what they want.. or at most, they prefer the Subzero fridge over the Whirlpool for the extra panache.  That's it. 

[cawimmer430]

You're thinking of J.D. Power & Assoc. survey, not Consumer Reports.

Consumer Reports doesn't actually say how they use their data.

Ah, it was JD Powers, not CR? Ok. Still, a pretty weird way of rating cars, don't you think?

[NomisR]

Ah, it was JD Powers, not CR? Ok. Still, a pretty weird way of rating cars, don't you think?

CR gets surveys from their subscribers too.  I think that's where they get their reliability data from.

But they still test their cars, and they claim they buy their own so they don't get ringers.

[cawimmer430]

CR gets surveys from their subscribers too.  I think that's where they get their reliability data from.

But they still test their cars, and they claim they buy their own so they don't get ringers.

JD Powers buys these cars for the sole purpose of testing their reliability ratings? 

[Rich]

You're thinking of J.D. Power & Assoc. survey, not Consumer Reports.

+1, beat me to it.  I think the Germans would be ok if they didn't want to overcomplicate everything all the time.  Electronic dipsticks, brake pad wear sensors, Hill Start assist, Active steering etc...

[NomisR]

JD Powers buys these cars for the sole purpose of testing their reliability ratings? 

No, CR buys the cars to test the performance so they have a "performance" rating..  but it seems like their rating is more geared towards regular people, so 0-60 time of 7 sec may be considered good for them rather than piss poor by Carspin standards.   Unless you drive a Swift..

[cawimmer430]

No, CR buys the cars to test the performance so they have a "performance" rating..  but it seems like their rating is more geared towards regular people, so 0-60 time of 7 sec may be considered good for them rather than piss poor by Carspin standards.   Unless you drive a Swift..

0-60 in 7 seconds is fast.

What's 8 seconds for them? Ultra slow? 

[NomisR]

0-60 in 7 seconds is fast.

What's 8 seconds for them? Ultra slow? 

Well, 8 seconds is still fairly  quick by their standards.  I guess you can say, their standard of speed is more similar to Europeans.  Anything under 10 is good.    And they also stuff people in back seats front seat and use it like people would use it.  At least that's what their introductions about their rags say. 

Come to think of it, I don't think they would've recommended most of the cars I liked.

[cawimmer430]

Well, 8 seconds is still fairly  quick by their standards.  I guess you can say, their standard of speed is more similar to Europeans.  Anything under 10 is good.    And they also stuff people in back seats front seat and use it like people would use it.  At least that's what their introductions about their rags say. 

Come to think of it, I don't think they would've recommended most of the cars I liked.

Lotus Elise

Pros: Fast

Cons: Small and cramped, no cupholders, no cushy comfortable seats (leather not available), measly 193-horsepower (???), expensive, low dealership networks, loud, unreliable (it's British after all!)...

We recommend: Toyota Solara Coupe

[NomisR]

Lotus Elise

Pros: Fast

Cons: Small and cramped, no cupholders, no cushy comfortable seats (leather not available), measly 193-horsepower (???), expensive, low dealership networks, loud, unreliable (it's British after all!)...

We recommend: Toyota Solara Coupe

  see what I mean?

[cawimmer430]

  see what I mean?

We should seriously put enthusiasts in charge of CR. Bye bye Toyota. 

[NomisR]

We should seriously put enthusiasts in charge of CR. Bye bye Toyota. 

Haha, I don't know if that'll work at all.  The criteria for a blender would end up being, will it blend this copper tube into juice!!!     And fridge would be fitting as many kegs in there as possible. 

[cawimmer430]

Haha, I don't know if that'll work at all.  The criteria for a blender would end up being, will it blend this copper tube into juice!!!     And fridge would be fitting as many kegs in there as possible. 

But it will be a fridge with soul!

The blender will have history and heritage! 

[Madman]

I think many people consider CR as a sort of light guide but not to be taken too seriously. Am I right?

I wish that were true.  Unfortunately, it isn't.  I've spoken to many people who think Consumer Reports is The Bible and will not not even consider a car that doesn't get a good rating from CR.  Then, when I start pointing out the flaws in CR's testing and survey procedures, all I ever hear is "But they're totally unbiased!  They don't even accept outside advertising!"  To which I respond; "Just because they don't accept advertising doesn't mean they're not still full of shit!"

It's amazing the effect brainwashing has on people. 


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[cawimmer430]

I wish that were true.  Unfortunately, it isn't.  I've spoken to many people who think Consumer Reports is The Bible and will not not even consider a car that doesn't get a good rating from CR.  Then, when I start pointing out the flaws in CR's testing and survey procedures, all I ever hear is "But they're totally unbiased!  They don't even accept outside advertising!"  To which I respond; "Just because they don't accept advertising doesn't mean they're not still full of shit!"

It's amazing the effect brainwashing has on people. 


Cheers,
Madman of the People

You have awesome friends.   

Ever thought about faking a CR article? Want me to do it for you? They recommend a Range Rover and claim the Landcruiser is crap! Want me to do it for you? 

[TBR]

I am confused here. Wimmer, what do you want magazines to look at? If they value performance over practicality (ie: C&D), you bash them. If they value practicality over performance, you still bash them (ie: CR).

[ifcar]

I am confused here. Wimmer, what do you want magazines to look at? If they value performance over practicality (ie: C&D), you bash them. If they value practicality over performance, you still bash them (ie: CR).

HISTORY AND HERITAGE!

[cawimmer430]

I am confused here. Wimmer, what do you want magazines to look at? If they value performance over practicality (ie: C&D), you bash them. If they value practicality over performance, you still bash them (ie: CR).

Huh?

Someone on Germancarzone who has this issue of Car and Driver mentioned how they completely failed to talk about the technology and other qualities of the new E-Class in that recent comparison. They apparently dove right into how the engine is "weak and underpowered" and "not as sporty as the 5er and M45". This is the typical C&D way of life - test everything from a sporty point of view. My issue here is that most people in this class don't care about sport. They're not enthusiasts, they just want a car with a name that looks good, is safe, reasonably fast and satisfies a need. Sport is not one of them for the vast majority. The E-Class is a well-balanced car. Always has been. It should have placed higher based on that balanced. Instead, it is generally felt over on GCZ that C&D shelved it in last place because of the engine. 

I only bash car magazines when they test performance in THIS midsize luxury class for example. The only really sporty cars here are the 5er, M45 and XF. How the A6 won this comparison is beyond me because the impression I got was that the A6 doesn't handle as well as the 5er or the XF or M45. I guess the engine must be fantastic for C&D to place it that high but that seems to be about it. This comparison was just pretty weird to me, that's all. I don't care in the end what C&D says. I know what suits my needs and I don't need their stupid opinion about what is underpowered and what isn't. And it is fun to bitch about some car magazines. 

[ifcar]

C/D on the A6:
"The Jag's luxury, the Infiniti's strength, the BMW's balance...the full complement of speed, luxury and prestige...comfy without being cushy, sporty without being aggressive."

[TBR]

Huh?

Someone on Germancarzone who has this issue of Car and Driver mentioned how they completely failed to talk about the technology and other qualities of the new E-Class in that recent comparison. They apparently dove right into how the engine is "weak and underpowered" and "not as sporty as the 5er and M45". This is the typical C&D way of life - test everything from a sporty point of view. My issue here is that most people in this class don't care about sport. They're not enthusiasts, they just want a car with a name that looks good, is safe, reasonably fast and satisfies a need. Sport is not one of them for the vast majority. The E-Class is a well-balanced car. Always has been. It should have placed higher based on that balanced. Instead, it is generally felt over on GCZ that C&D shelved it in last place because of the engine. 

I only bash car magazines when they test performance in THIS midsize luxury class for example. The only really sporty cars here are the 5er, M45 and XF. How the A6 won this comparison is beyond me because the impression I got was that the A6 doesn't handle as well as the 5er or the XF or M45. I guess the engine must be fantastic for C&D to place it that high but that seems to be about it. This comparison was just pretty weird to me, that's all. I don't care in the end what C&D says. I know what suits my needs and I don't need their stupid opinion about what is underpowered and what isn't. And it is fun to bitch about some car magazines. 

Yet when a magazine doesn't consider performance you bash them too.

[cawimmer430]

Yet when a magazine doesn't consider performance you bash them too.

I do? I don't recall bashing a magazine when they don't consider performance. I'm all for testing cars not always based on performance - which is something ALL American car magazines seem to do. When you test sport cars I don't have a problem with that. But when you're testing 2.5 ton SUVs or ultra luxury cars I don't see performance as a big criteria, especially since most people buy these cars to be either driven or cruise in - not slam the pedal to the metal at every light.

Hell, I find Canadian Driver pretty cool since they seem to test cars from a European point of view: fuel economy, practicality, interior and trunk space, versatility etc. The performance criteria seems to be way at the bottom.

[TBR]

I do? I don't recall bashing a magazine when they don't consider performance. I'm all for testing cars not always based on performance - which is something ALL American car magazines seem to do. When you test sport cars I don't have a problem with that. But when you're testing 2.5 ton SUVs or ultra luxury cars I don't see performance as a big criteria, especially since most people buy these cars to be either driven or cruise in - not slam the pedal to the metal at every light.

Hell, I find Canadian Driver pretty cool since they seem to test cars from a European point of view: fuel economy, practicality, interior and trunk space, versatility etc. The performance criteria seems to be way at the bottom.

Those are the exact same things CR values most, yet you have criticized them severely throughout this thread.

What is clear is that in reality you simply don't like any magazine that doesn't gush over Mercedes-Benzes.

[cawimmer430]

Those are the exact same things CR values most, yet you have criticized them severely throughout this thread.

CR also has retarded participants that complain about trivial things. 

What is clear is that in reality you simply don't like any magazine that doesn't gush over Mercedes-Benzes.

Oh give me a break. 

The number one complaint about MB's is that they're "overpriced". Have these people ever heard of prestige pricing? MB can do it. They have the history and heritage. Those who want a Mercedes can afford it and I would think they would rarely complain about the price. If price is an issue they can go over to Toyota and buy a Lexus.

[nickdrinkwater]

Lotus Elise

Pros: Fast

Cons: Small and cramped, no cupholders, no cushy comfortable seats (leather not available), measly 193-horsepower (???), expensive, low dealership networks, loud, unreliable (it's British after all!)...

We recommend: Toyota Solara Coupe

Is that for a real or is it a joke?

[TBR]

CR also has retarded participants that complain about trivial things. 

That was JD Powers.

Oh give me a break. 

Really? Because every time you criticize a magazine it just happens to coincide with a bad review of a Mercedes.

The number one complaint about MB's is that they're "overpriced". Have these people ever heard of prestige pricing? MB can do it. They have the history and heritage. Those who want a Mercedes can afford it and I would think they would rarely complain about the price. If price is an issue they can go over to Toyota and buy a Lexus.

And that's good for Mercedes how?

[CALL_911]

CR also has retarded participants that complain about trivial things. 


Oh give me a break. 

If price is an issue they can go over to Toyota and buy a Lexus.

Isn't that pricing issue how Lexus came and scorched MB's ass to begin with?

[CALL_911]

Oh, and Wimmer, the history and heritage that brings the malfunctions and electric failures makes the decision of so many people I know who jumped ship from MB to Lexus rather logical.

I'd never buy a Lexus, but I'm not so sure I'd buy an MB either.



GO BMW GO