Can someone explain insurance to me?

[2o6]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have someone else fix the car, especially if you get hurt?

It's something he enjoys doing.

[ChrisV]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have someone else fix the car, especially if you get hurt?

Nope. It's part of the punishment/incentive plan. If *I* screw up the car, then *I* have to fix it or replace it, even if that means waiting until after I recover. I've never had only one car at a time, so I would never have been completely out of transportation. Also, my cars are usually customized, and I don't trust anyone else to repair a customized car to my satisfaction.

And then there is the issue of you not being at fault but being hit be someone without insurance.

That's uninsured motorist coverage, and it's usually part of the minimum legal requirements. So far none of the coverage I've ever had has been less than the replacement cost of whatever I'm driving, plus personal injury protection.

The funny thing was that the laws that require you to be insured were put in place to reduce that risk and cost, but it's done zip for that, in fact.

Again, I've never had to use it, because:

Usually all the careful in the world won't protect you from that.

Actually, it certainly can. You can reduce the risk to a level that the only time an occurrance happens, it's at such a low speed that damage is minimized to a very small amount. Certainly to the point where personal injury won't happen, and you can still legally go after the offender for material damages. Worked for me for 30 years of driving on both coasts, from Seattle to LA, and Maine to Florida. Most damage occurred to the Rangie, as far as dollar value, and I only had it repaired because I legally could, not that the truck really needed repairs to remain useful or retain it's actual value. I've gotten hit in a couple cars, and by virtue of awareness of what was going on, managed to reduce the damage to less than a hundred bucks worth of repairs in any car. It's not luck, any more than managing to keep total repair costs low for all sorts of supposedly unreliable cars has been.

[Byteme]

Nope. It's part of the punishment/incentive plan. If *I* screw up the car, then *I* have to fix it or replace it, even if that means waiting until after I recover. I've never had only one car at a time, so I would never have been completely out of transportation. Also, my cars are usually customized, and I don't trust anyone else to repair a customized car to my satisfaction.


That's uninsured motorist coverage, and it's usually part of the minimum legal requirements. So far none of the coverage I've ever had has been less than the replacement cost of whatever I'm driving, plus personal injury protection.

The funny thing was that the laws that require you to be insured were put in place to reduce that risk and cost, but it's done zip for that, in fact.

Again, I've never had to use it, because:


Actually, it certainly can. You can reduce the risk to a level that the only time an occurrance happens, it's at such a low speed that damage is minimized to a very small amount. Certainly to the point where personal injury won't happen, and you can still legally go after the offender for material damages. Worked for me for 30 years of driving on both coasts, from Seattle to LA, and Maine to Florida. Most damage occurred to the Rangie, as far as dollar value, and I only had it repaired because I legally could, not that the truck really needed repairs to remain useful or retain it's actual value. I've gotten hit in a couple cars, and by virtue of awareness of what was going on, managed to reduce the damage to less than a hundred bucks worth of repairs in any car. It's not luck, any more than managing to keep total repair costs low for dll sorts of supposedly unreliable cars has been.

In many states it's entirely optional.

Picture the situation where you are passing someone on the interstate and they slide over and sideswipe you.  Happened so fast I could do nothing but try to stay on the road, which I did.  Other driver had no insurance.  $1000 damage in 1970.  Or I'm at a stoplight stopped and the car behind me for whatever reason never touches the brakes.  Again no insurance.    More often than not people without insurance have little else of value anyway.  The cardinal rule of suing somebody is never sue anybody with empty pockets.  You may win and be able to make their life a bit more miserable but you likely won't collect.

[ChrisV]

In many states it's entirely optional.

Picture the situation where you are passing someone on the interstate and they slide over and sideswipe you.  Happened so fast I could do nothing but try to stay on the road, which I did.

Had that happen a lot of times, but like in racing, they simply can't vector sideways fast enough that you can't see or react to it in time. Never got sideswiped simply becasue i ALWAYS know wher they are and have already given speed/vector calculations to account for that possibility. Part of it is from time on the racetrack, and part is from time on a motorcycle. it's simply background calculation and I dont' even really consciously make the effort. it's liek knowing instinctively how fast you are moving vs how fast the car you are passing is moving to judge when you can move over safely, using cues from your mirrors subconsciously.

As for being rear ended, that's happened a few times, like in the Rangie, and in every time, I knew it was going to happen before it did and moved to minimize the results. As I posted, the Rangie got almost no damage, but since it's wifey's car, I made sure it was perfect afterward. Had it been mine, there wasn't enough actual damage to even be visible after a few minutes work. I was rear ended twice in the SVT Contour here in Baltimore, and in neither instance, since I saw it about to happen and did some quick mitigating steps, did I end up with more than VERY minor scuffs to the bumper. Maybe it's becasue I'm constantly scanning the mirrors and side views, constatnly calculating vectors and speeds, and constantly taking steps to minimize problems before I even get into those situations, that in 30 years, the only couple times that accidents HAVE occured, they've ended up as extremely minor scuffs that were barely noticeable, or at least easily repaired (the worst was a drunk in a '69 Chrysler Newport rear ending one of my custom Bugs at 35 mph. Saw it about to happen, did some quick mental calculations, got off the brakes and on the gas as the collision started then hit the brakes hard again to keep from hitting the car in front (which I had, as always, intentionally left some room between). Bent the rear bumper and decklid, but drove the car home. The Newport wasn't diving anywhere as the radiator had been smashed. This was on a Friday night, witnessed by a bunch of my friends. By the VW show on Sunday, the car was fixed and they were all like, "wait, wasn't this car rear ended the other night?")

Most people that say" it came out of nowhere" simply weren't paying attention beforehand, and often don't include the throttle in their escape plans.

[GoCougs]

You are far too confident in your ability to avoid accidents there ChrisV.

[Byteme]

Had that happen a lot of times, but like in racing, they simply can't vector sideways fast enough that you can't see or react to it in time. Never got sideswiped simply becasue i ALWAYS know wher they are and have already given speed/vector calculations to account for that possibility. Part of it is from time on the racetrack, and part is from time on a motorcycle. it's simply background calculation and I dont' even really consciously make the effort. it's liek knowing instinctively how fast you are moving vs how fast the car you are passing is moving to judge when you can move over safely, using cues from your mirrors subconsciously.

As for being rear ended, that's happened a few times, like in the Rangie, and in every time, I knew it was going to happen before it did and moved to minimize the results. As I posted, the Rangie got almost no damage, but since it's wifey's car, I made sure it was perfect afterward. Had it been mine, there wasn't enough actual damage to even be visible after a few minutes work. I was rear ended twice in the SVT Contour here in Baltimore, and in neither instance, since I saw it about to happen and did some quick mitigating steps, did I end up with more than VERY minor scuffs to the bumper. Maybe it's becasue I'm constantly scanning the mirrors and side views, constatnly calculating vectors and speeds, and constantly taking steps to minimize problems before I even get into those situations, that in 30 years, the only couple times that accidents HAVE occured, they've ended up as extremely minor scuffs that were barely noticeable, or at least easily repaired (the worst was a drunk in a '69 Chrysler Newport rear ending one of my custom Bugs at 35 mph. Saw it about to happen, did some quick mental calculations, got off the brakes and on the gas as the collision started then hit the brakes hard again to keep from hitting the car in front (which I had, as always, intentionally left some room between). Bent the rear bumper and decklid, but drove the car home. The Newport wasn't diving anywhere as the radiator had been smashed. This was on a Friday night, witnessed by a bunch of my friends. By the VW show on Sunday, the car was fixed and they were all like, "wait, wasn't this car rear ended the other night?")

Most people that say" it came out of nowhere" simply weren't paying attention beforehand, and often don't include the throttle in their escape plans.

You've been very very lucky.  Better professional racing drivers have been killed in the kind of situations you brush off.  If you are truely that good you are in the wrong profession.   

[JWC]

You are far too confident in your ability to avoid accidents there ChrisV.

You've been very very lucky.  Better professional racing drivers have been killed in the kind of situations you brush off.  If you are truely that good you are in the wrong profession.  

Not really.  I've found myself in the same situations and have done the same.  Yesterday, the wife and I were coming back from an MD appointment, when a driver pulled in front of the Blazer in front of us and stopped.  The Blazer was getting sideways trying to stop, I had left enough room for me to stop, but the ancient LTD behind us was in a skid and had not left enough room.  I do as Chris does, constantly scan mirrors, so I knew that the lane to my right was clear and that was my escape route.  

My 1964 Impala was reared ended in Daly City Ca, but again, I saw it coming and did everything I could to minimize the impact.  After the collision, I was pissed, of course, hopped out of the car expecting some damage to my car and was surprised that as I walked by, there was none.  The other guy had gotten sideways and his Riv was a mess.  It took the wind out of my sails, because I was going to kick the guy's ass, but since he got the worse of it... only tried to see if he was okay.  Instead, he drove off.  

[ChrisV]

You are far too confident in your ability to avoid accidents there ChrisV.

Projecting your personal failings on others is silly. It's not luck, and it's not skill. It's simply paying attention. I know that's a problem for most people, but it's really quite easy.

I've driven some really fast cars, and I've driven a lot of stuff that's considered old, ill handling, and completely unsafe. I guess if you live your life by driving basic appliance cars and not really caring about anything (and having no track time or motorcycle time, especially the latter) you might think "jeeze, that sounds impossible and superhuman." Anyone can drive this way. Most simply don't care to. If you tried it, like JWC has shown, you can easily be in the same position I am.

Going back to the motorcycle experience, a little tidbit: when you're driving your car, do you notice or even pay attention to little pebbles on the roadway ahead of you? Do you really even see them of they are smaller than dime size? in a car, almost never. Even thinking about it, you probably can't recall the last time you even saw one in your lane that was going to get hit by your tire. On a motorcycle, those things become of huge importance, especially in a corner. You can see tiny little pebble specs, realize that they can lift the tire slightly removing traction, and then drive to avoid them, all at street speeds. It's AMAZING what you can see when it becomes important enough to notice it. To me, where everyone around me is and how fast and which direction they are going is important enough to notice and keep track of, even if it's mostly subconsciously now.

Yeah, on the autocross course, I tended to be able to get into someone's car and drive it faster than they could (except for my national champion winning friends, but that's because, unlike me, they are incredible drivers, and whom I learned most of this stuff from). But part of that was simply the desire to learn how the car was moving and responding, then doing the things necessary to make it do what I wanted using it's own responses. Driving a car like my lowered old beater Falcon was the same way, and why I always say a good driver can adapt quickly and easily to any car they drive, rather than requiring the car to be adapted perfectly to them. And while there are a lot of racers, a lot of them unfortunately, are only fast in a car set up perfectly for them, but not so fast in just any car.

As for dying in race cars, one must also remember that at street speeds, even slightly elevated street speeds, there's a lot more time to make a mistake and recover than there is at race speeds, and a lot more time to see and react to stuff around you. It's why after you get off the track doing 100-150 mph, driving at 70 feels like a crawl, and everything seems to be happening in slow motion. Keep a little of that perspective intact whenever you drive and you realize that at street speeds, everything IS happening in slow motion and things are vastly easier to avoid and correct for than most people realize.

[Cookie Monster]

Projecting your personal failings on others is silly. It's not luck, and it's not skill. It's simply paying attention. I know that's a problem for most people, but it's really quite easy.

I've driven some really fast cars, and I've driven a lot of stuff that's considered old, ill handling, and completely unsafe. I guess if you live your life by driving basic appliance cars and not really caring about anything (and having no track time or motorcycle time, especially the latter) you might think "jeeze, that sounds impossible and superhuman." Anyone can drive this way. Most simply don't care to. If you tried it, like JWC has shown, you can easily be in the same position I am.

Going back to the motorcycle experience, a little tidbit: when you're driving your car, do you notice or even pay attention to little pebbles on the roadway ahead of you? Do you really even see them of they are smaller than dime size? in a car, almost never. Even thinking about it, you probably can't recall the last time you even saw one in your lane that was going to get hit by your tire. On a motorcycle, those things become of huge importance, especially in a corner. You can see tiny little pebble specs, realize that they can lift the tire slightly removing traction, and then drive to avoid them, all at street speeds. It's AMAZING what you can see when it becomes important enough to notice it. To me, where everyone around me is and how fast and which direction they are going is important enough to notice and keep track of, even if it's mostly subconsciously now.

Yeah, on the autocross course, I tended to be able to get into someone's car and drive it faster than they could (except for my national champion winning friends, but that's because, unlike me, they are incredible drivers, and whom I learned most of this stuff from). But part of that was simply the desire to learn how the car was moving and responding, then doing the things necessary to make it do what I wanted using it's own responses. Driving a car like my lowered old beater Falcon was the same way, and why I always say a good driver can adapt quickly and easily to any car they drive, rather than requiring the car to be adapted perfectly to them. And while there are a lot of racers, a lot of them unfortunately, are only fast in a car set up perfectly for them, but not so fast in just any car.

As for dying in race cars, one must also remember that at street speeds, even slightly elevated street speeds, there's a lot more time to make a mistake and recover than there is at race speeds, and a lot more time to see and react to stuff around you. It's why after you get off the track doing 100-150 mph, driving at 70 feels like a crawl, and everything seems to be happening in slow motion. Keep a little of that perspective intact whenever you drive and you realize that at street speeds, everything IS happening in slow motion and things are vastly easier to avoid and correct for than most people realize.

How do you see pebbles and stuff at highway speeds?

But I understand what you're saying about them. On my road bike, I look out for every crack, stone, bump, pothole, etc, as well as all the cars going by me since I'm going so much slower than them.

I think it makes me a better driver because I'm generally much more aware of my surroundings as a habit from riding my bicycle everywhere.

[JWC]

How do you people survive on the roadways?

I don't know about seeing pebbles, but I see plenty of nails, screws and bolts.   My wife doesn't.  We were traveling to a photo shoot a couple of weeks ago and I commented on the number of screws and bolts on the roadway as I moved slightly to miss them.  She never saw a thing.

I've also scored various tools when driving.  A few screwdrivers, pliers, and one hammer..nice, almost new claw hammer.    I also picked up a license plate, three weeks ago, and a cell phone, two years ago (that I turned over to the cell phone company).

[GoCougs]

Projecting your personal failings on others is silly. It's not luck, and it's not skill. It's simply paying attention. I know that's a problem for most people, but it's really quite easy.

I've driven some really fast cars, and I've driven a lot of stuff that's considered old, ill handling, and completely unsafe. I guess if you live your life by driving basic appliance cars and not really caring about anything (and having no track time or motorcycle time, especially the latter) you might think "jeeze, that sounds impossible and superhuman." Anyone can drive this way. Most simply don't care to. If you tried it, like JWC has shown, you can easily be in the same position I am.

Going back to the motorcycle experience, a little tidbit: when you're driving your car, do you notice or even pay attention to little pebbles on the roadway ahead of you? Do you really even see them of they are smaller than dime size? in a car, almost never. Even thinking about it, you probably can't recall the last time you even saw one in your lane that was going to get hit by your tire. On a motorcycle, those things become of huge importance, especially in a corner. You can see tiny little pebble specs, realize that they can lift the tire slightly removing traction, and then drive to avoid them, all at street speeds. It's AMAZING what you can see when it becomes important enough to notice it. To me, where everyone around me is and how fast and which direction they are going is important enough to notice and keep track of, even if it's mostly subconsciously now.

Yeah, on the autocross course, I tended to be able to get into someone's car and drive it faster than they could (except for my national champion winning friends, but that's because, unlike me, they are incredible drivers, and whom I learned most of this stuff from). But part of that was simply the desire to learn how the car was moving and responding, then doing the things necessary to make it do what I wanted using it's own responses. Driving a car like my lowered old beater Falcon was the same way, and why I always say a good driver can adapt quickly and easily to any car they drive, rather than requiring the car to be adapted perfectly to them. And while there are a lot of racers, a lot of them unfortunately, are only fast in a car set up perfectly for them, but not so fast in just any car.

As for dying in race cars, one must also remember that at street speeds, even slightly elevated street speeds, there's a lot more time to make a mistake and recover than there is at race speeds, and a lot more time to see and react to stuff around you. It's why after you get off the track doing 100-150 mph, driving at 70 feels like a crawl, and everything seems to be happening in slow motion. Keep a little of that perspective intact whenever you drive and you realize that at street speeds, everything IS happening in slow motion and things are vastly easier to avoid and correct for than most people realize.

Uh, huh. "Personal failings."

There are realities of physics and limits of physiology that simply cannot be wished away - there are myriad accident scenarios for which skill will matter naught.

There's certainly something to be said for defense driving as noted by JWC. You, however, are simply delusional.

[hotrodalex]

Uh, huh. "Personal failings."

There are realities of physics and limits of physiology that simply cannot be wished away - there are myriad accident scenarios for which skill will matter naught.

There's certainly something to be said for defense driving as noted by JWC. You, however, are simply delusional.

Start riding a bike. You will understand the level of observation Chris is talking about. I'm sure gotta-quik-Z28 can relate as well.

[MX793]

Start riding a bike. You will understand the level of observation Chris is talking about. I'm sure gotta-quik-Z28 can relate as well.

Alertness can account for a lot, but there are some accidents you simply cannot avoid.  If you're stopped in traffic with a car ahead of you and cars to either side and the car coming up behind you fails to stop and smashes into you, there's no way you can avoid that.  You're entirely at the mercy of the driver behind you.

[hotrodalex]

Alertness can account for a lot, but there are some accidents you simply cannot avoid.  If you're stopped in traffic with a car ahead of you and cars to either side and the car coming up behind you fails to stop and smashes into you, there's no way you can avoid that.  You're entirely at the mercy of the driver behind you.

Of course. I've been hit a few times in my Mazda in situations like that. Sometimes you can inch up a bit to make the collision happen at a slower speed, but it's not always possible to prevent it. You just have to be observant and also lucky.

Though I should say I usually leave plenty of space in front of me while I'm on my bike so I can scoot up. Like 1-2 bike lengths in some places.

[ChrisV]

Alertness can account for a lot, but there are some accidents you simply cannot avoid.  If you're stopped in traffic with a car ahead of you and cars to either side and the car coming up behind you fails to stop and smashes into you, there's no way you can avoid that.  You're entirely at the mercy of the driver behind you.

You can leave enough room ahead of you to have a bit of cushion, and watch people coming up behind you. Really, as a motorcycle rider you simply expect it to happen all the time.

I'm frankly amazed, as I don't find paying attention all that hard, and ensuring that those types of situations either don't get around to occurring to start with or are at least minimized (even if I HAVE to drive boxed in, there are escape routes and cushions built in to my awareness), and have been doing so successfully in all sorts of traffic conditions, in all sorts of vehicles, for 30 years. I really don't give it much thought, as it's a subconscious process, much like shifting is.

But I can see why the average driver can't be bothered to pay attention anymore, if even car enthusiasts think it's simply too hard to do...

[ChrisV]

How do you see pebbles and stuff at highway speeds?

Frankly, I don't know. You just find that you do. I was shocked the first time I noticed it, as I was like, "damn, I'd never see this stuff in the car..." And after talking to other motorcyclists, I found that most of them saw the same stuff.

[Cookie Monster]

Frankly, I don't know. You just find that you do. I was shocked the first time I noticed it, as I was like, "damn, I'd never see this stuff in the car..." And after talking to other motorcyclists, I found that most of them saw the same stuff.

Hmm, it must be something I have to try for my self then.

I've never exceeded about 40-45 mph on my bicycle so I don't know what it's like on two wheels at highway speeds.

[MX793]

You can leave enough room ahead of you to have a bit of cushion, and watch people coming up behind you. Really, as a motorcycle rider you simply expect it to happen all the time.

I'm frankly amazed, as I don't find paying attention all that hard, and ensuring that those types of situations either don't get around to occurring to start with or are at least minimized (even if I HAVE to drive boxed in, there are escape routes and cushions built in to my awareness), and have been doing so successfully in all sorts of traffic conditions, in all sorts of vehicles, for 30 years. I really don't give it much thought, as it's a subconscious process, much like shifting is.

But I can see why the average driver can't be bothered to pay attention anymore, if even car enthusiasts think it's simply too hard to do...

Leaving a cushion doesn't mean you can escape the accident.  You might soften the blow or prevent your car from being punted into the car ahead of you, but if the driver behind you is totally oblivious and doesn't even touch the brakes, you are going to get hit.  Motorcycles do have the advantage of being able to dart between cars if you see someone coming up behind you who isn't going to stop when you're in a "boxed in" situation at a light.

[Byteme]

Start riding a bike. You will understand the level of observation Chris is talking about. I'm sure gotta-quik-Z28 can relate as well.

I see that kind of stuff all the time.  Drives my wife and son insane on trips.  I'll point out stuff in the median, the shoulder, side streets ("Damn, a 66 Impala SS, green with whitewalls").  About 2 months ago I'm driving down a two lane street at about 40MPH and pull over.  Had to stop to pick up that $20 bill I spotted.  When sitting in stop and go traffic on the freeway it's interesting to see the various crap people discard.  Sparkplugs, fanbelts, oil filters, panty hose, bras, shoes (rolling strip club perhaps?), socks, CDs.  One time at night in the middle of nowhere I came across a 4 foot tall stuffed bear.  Must have fallen out of somene's open U-haul. 

And I can pretty much describe what kind of car(s) are behind me, to the sides and in front at any given time.

[Byteme]

Leaving a cushion doesn't mean you can escape the accident.  You might soften the blow or prevent your car from being punted into the car ahead of you, but if the driver behind you is totally oblivious and doesn't even touch the brakes, you are going to get hit.  Motorcycles do have the advantage of being able to dart between cars if you see someone coming up behind you who isn't going to stop when you're in a "boxed in" situation at a light.

That's why every time, literally every time, I'm forced to quickly stop in traffic I spend as much time eyeing the car behind me and beside me as I do the one in front of me.  I'm generally in an inside or outside lane so I have a shoulder to pull on to if it looks like the guy behind me isn't going to stop in time.  The one time I was rear ended I was in a 66 Charger and the girl in the Camaro was clueless and never touched the brakes.  With cars in front and to the sides of me I could do little but be a spectator.  How fast was she going?  Don't know but the speed limit was 35 there.

[hotrodalex]

I see that kind of stuff all the time.  Drives my wife and son insane on trips.  I'll point out stuff in the median, the shoulder, side streets ("Damn, a 66 Impala SS, green with whitewalls").  About 2 months ago I'm driving down a two lane street at about 40MPH and pull over.  Had to stop to pick up that $20 bill I spotted.  When sitting in stop and go traffic on the freeway it's interesting to see the various crap people discard.  Sparkplugs, fanbelts, oil filters, panty hose, bras, shoes (rolling strip club perhaps?), socks, CDs.  One time at night in the middle of nowhere I came across a 4 foot tall stuffed bear.  Must have fallen out of somene's open U-haul. 

And I can pretty much describe what kind of car(s) are behind me, to the sides and in front at any given time.

I'm amazed sometimes when I'm in the car with other people and I'll make a comment about something that was on the road or a car that went by and they go "what car?". Even if I'm the passenger I still seem to see more.

I remember one time when I was driving with my mom (I was a teen) and I saw a cop car on a hill in front of us. I didn't say anything because I figured she saw it too. She got to the stop sign at the bottom of the hill and didn't really stop to turn, just did (it was early in the morning). I said something about the cop being there and she said "there was a cop there?!".

[dazzleman]

What sense does it make to pay 1500-2000 a year (or in this case, close to 5 grand) in insurance premiums on a car that's only worth 2 grand?

Bingo.

You have to look at the cost/benefit of insurance.  You always need to carry liability insurance, mainly to pay for damage to other people's cars from accidents you cause, and to pay medical bills if anybody is hurt (or worse).

But collision/comprehensive is a whole different story.  Since the insurance company penalizes people who file claims (whatever they say in their commercials, they don't consider it a joy to pay claims), it's better to have a high deductible because for smaller damage, people often pay themselves rather than file a claim and face much higher rates.  If the car isn't worth that much more than the deductible, then it's not worth carrying collision/comprehensive insurance on it at all.

[AutobahnSHO]

It's why after you get off the track doing 100-150 mph, driving at 70 feels like a crawl,

+1 for this part, -2 for the rest on this page.

[Eye of the Tiger]

+1 for this part, -2 for the rest on this page.

On a slightly related note, if you feel like you're driving too slow, tilt your head to the side 90?. It makes you feel fast.

[TBR]

Your deductible on a cheap car should never exceed $500.

Having anything more is basically asking to get eaten alive if you have an accident.

Wrong answer. You should never have a deductible on a cheap car at all. Liability only FTW.

Yeah, but if you have only liability then you're now $2,000 in the crapper because you just lost your $1,000 car and you're paying $1,000 to fix the other guy's car.

Another wrong answer. Liability covers all liability, this includes damage to the other car.

[AutobahnSHO]

On a slightly related note, if you feel like you're driving too slow, tilt your head to the side 90?. It makes you feel fast.

Or tilt the seat WAAAAAY back?

[hotrodalex]

Or tilt the seat WAAAAAY back?

Turn da bass up, yo!

[AutobahnSHO]

Turn da bass up, yo!

fart cannon and RIMZ make you FAST.

[hotrodalex]

fart cannon and RIMZ make you FAST.

VTAK STICKERZZZZZ!

[AutobahnSHO]

VTAK STICKERZZZZZ!

WING ftw