Tasered during a traffic stop

[SVT_Power]

tasering should be a last resort for cops. Like someone said above, it seems like the cops just go "oh yeah? Well I'm gonna taser you" to just about everything...

[dazzleman]

tasering should be a last resort for cops. Like someone said above, it seems like the cops just go "oh yeah? Well I'm gonna taser you" to just about everything...

If that were true, stories like this would be far too common to make the national news.

[Northlands]

She also may not have known that she could go to court over a traffic ticket.

I don't know how it works in the U.S. ( or might be different by state too.. ) , but officers here inform you that you can take your ticket to a magistrate in traffic court here if you want to disagree with the charge laid.

[dazzleman]

She also may not have known that she could go to court over a traffic ticket.

If she didn't know that, then she's really dumb.

[bing_oh]

tasering should be a last resort for cops. Like someone said above, it seems like the cops just go "oh yeah? Well I'm gonna taser you" to just about everything...

Why should a tool that usually leads to an arrest of resisting suspects with no injury or long-term side effects be a last resort? Wouldn't you prefer that officers use such a device instead of risking injury by wresting around with them or beating someone into compliance?

[bing_oh]

I don't know how it works in the U.S. ( or might be different by state too.. ) , but officers here inform you that you can take your ticket to a magistrate in traffic court here if you want to disagree with the charge laid.

She never let it get to the point where she was issued a citation and it was explained to her that she could take it to court. She was out of her car before the officer even got back to his cruiser after getting her license and it escalated from there. Besides, you'd be hard-pressed to tell me that an adult driver out there doesn't know that you can plead not guilty to a traffic ticket. Hell, I'm not even sure that she knew she was getting a ticket at that point...she never says anything about knowing she's getting a ticket and most LEO's don't tell people before the ticket is written.

[Northlands]

She never let it get to the point where she was issued a citation and it was explained to her that she could take it to court. She was out of her car before the officer even got back to his cruiser after getting her license and it escalated from there. Besides, you'd be hard-pressed to tell me that an adult driver out there doesn't know that you can plead not guilty to a traffic ticket. Hell, I'm not even sure that she knew she was getting a ticket at that point...she never says anything about knowing she's getting a ticket and most LEO's don't tell people before the ticket is written.

Yeah that much I figured. My response was a tiny bit smart alec-ish. 

[S204STi]

Why should a tool that usually leads to an arrest of resisting suspects with no injury or long-term side effects be a last resort? Wouldn't you prefer that officers use such a device instead of risking injury by wresting around with them or beating someone into compliance?

I think that a Rodney King - style beating is in order any time you get out of line with the police.  Way more civil than shocking someone.

[dazzleman]

The initial minute or so of the video says it all.  The tone of voice, the arched eyebrows, and other non-verbal cues by the newspeople are dead giveaways of their bias, and once I see that, I don't generally trust anything further that they say.  Then the woman said she got out of the car because she wanted to see the tape.  Right there you know she's a troublemaker.  The place to review the evidence, if you're going to dispute it, is in court, not at the side of the road.

[Catman]

Funny how she remembered what happened clearly on the YT video.  Personally, I think the officer's actions were justified but I think a savvy officer could have handled her a bit differently.  Once he told her she was under arrest she had no right to resist by jumping back in the car.  Whether she thought it was justified or not is inconsequential.  I don't think she has a case.

[Rupert]

I got the impression that she got back in the car because she was confused (i.e. she didn't realize that when he said she was under arrest, she was actually under arrest-- maybe she thought he said "or I will put you under arrest"). Same with resisting getting back out of the car (i.e. why is this person trying to pull me out of my car?-- not thinking, oh, this police officer is telling me to do something). I get the impression that she doesn't have to deal with police very often, and doesn't think about it. Those of us in this thread obviously do think about police interactions, so we naturally think differently than her.

Of course, we can't know that stuff for sure, and the officer couldn't have known it, either.

[S204STi]

I got the impression that she got back in the car because she was confused (i.e. she didn't realize that when he said she was under arrest, she was actually under arrest-- maybe she thought he said "or I will put you under arrest"). Same with resisting getting back out of the car (i.e. why is this person trying to pull me out of my car?-- not thinking, oh, this police officer is telling me to do something). I get the impression that she doesn't have to deal with police very often, and doesn't think about it. Those of us in this thread obviously do think about police interactions, so we naturally think differently than her.

Of course, we can't know that stuff for sure, and the officer couldn't have known it, either.

Without audio we really can't draw any conclusions.  I'd be interested in seeing what the result of the investigation decides.

[Catman]

I got the impression that she got back in the car because she was confused (i.e. she didn't realize that when he said she was under arrest, she was actually under arrest-- maybe she thought he said "or I will put you under arrest"). Same with resisting getting back out of the car (i.e. why is this person trying to pull me out of my car?-- not thinking, oh, this police officer is telling me to do something). I get the impression that she doesn't have to deal with police very often, and doesn't think about it. Those of us in this thread obviously do think about police interactions, so we naturally think differently than her.

Of course, we can't know that stuff for sure, and the officer couldn't have known it, either.

In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter if she was confused or not.  The officer told her she was under arrest, that's good enough.

[Rupert]

In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter if she was confused or not.  The officer told her she was under arrest, that's good enough.

Yeah, more or less. It's an unfortunate incident, but I think both parties screwed up to some degree.

[565]

Yes, because her being fat is a pretty big factor, here.

She shrugged off that first taser shot like it was nothing.  Blubber to the rescue!

Anyway regardless of what actually happened is infinitely debatable as there is no audio.  Yet I can totally see why this made the national news and why that officer is probably gonna lose the case.  This is video of a woman getting tasered, and then yanked from her car and then tasered again for good measure.  She didn't look to be fighting back or a real danger, and had her kids in her minivan.  

Anyway here's my guess on the whole matter.  Police officers aren't law enforcing robots that only follow the rules to the letter.  They are people with regular human emotions of anger and frustration.  If you act very polite, they will be polite back.  If you act like a dickwad, they will respond in kind.  This lady was probably a major asshole to the police officer, and I'm guessing he got pretty pissed and made a decision he probably now regrets.   But I'm glad he is being made an example of, because law enforcement have to be held to a higher standard of resisting their own emotions, as they carry and are allowed to use weapons that can wound or kill.

[Submariner]

A few things.

1.  Getting out of the car is a BIG    When you're pulled over, let the officer come to you, it's his or her job.  Getting out of the car can only put stress on a situation, and although 99% of stops are routine traffic violations, I think all cops have the right to feel a little on edge.

2.  Big money say's looking for a fat cash payout (I only watched the first few minutes or so, because my internet is so slow)

3.  Audio would help greatly. 

4.  Although I would have handled the situation differently, getting back into the car when the officer appeared to have not wanted that is another huge mistake.  It seems the woman is more at fault than the officer, by a long shot.

[Rupert]

4.  Although I would have handled the situation differently, getting back into the car when the officer appeared to have not wanted that is another huge mistake.  It seems the woman is more at fault than the officer, by a long shot.

It didn't look like it was super obvious that the officer changed his demand from "get back in the car" to "stay out," even though he did tell her she was under arrest. Who knows, though...

[bing_oh]

I got the impression that she got back in the car because she was confused (i.e. she didn't realize that when he said she was under arrest, she was actually under arrest-- maybe she thought he said "or I will put you under arrest"). Same with resisting getting back out of the car (i.e. why is this person trying to pull me out of my car?-- not thinking, oh, this police officer is telling me to do something). I get the impression that she doesn't have to deal with police very often, and doesn't think about it. Those of us in this thread obviously do think about police interactions, so we naturally think differently than her.

Of course, we can't know that stuff for sure, and the officer couldn't have known it, either.

I don't agree. Watch the Youtude video and listen to her commentary. She makes it clear in the commentary when the officer told her she was under arrest (unlike on the Today show, when she had a convenient case of alzheimers...probably brought on by her lawyer). Her body language makes it clear that she has no intention of following his direction to get back into the car when she's directed to do so, and only does so to attempt to placate the officer into not arresting her. She simply didn't want to be arrested. And, while there's no audio, I'll bet ya that the officer was yelling at her as he was trying to remove her from the vehicle. Again, I don't think there was any confustion on her part, she didn't want to be arrested and resisted.

[bing_oh]

She shrugged off that first taser shot like it was nothing.  Blubber to the rescue!

Anyway regardless of what actually happened is infinitely debatable as there is no audio.  Yet I can totally see why this made the national news and why that officer is probably gonna lose the case.  This is video of a woman getting tasered, and then yanked from her car and then tasered again for good measure.  She didn't look to be fighting back or a real danger, and had her kids in her minivan.  

Anyway here's my guess on the whole matter.  Police officers aren't law enforcing robots that only follow the rules to the letter.  They are people with regular human emotions of anger and frustration.  If you act very polite, they will be polite back.  If you act like a dickwad, they will respond in kind.  This lady was probably a major asshole to the police officer, and I'm guessing he got pretty pissed and made a decision he probably now regrets.   But I'm glad he is being made an example of, because law enforcement have to be held to a higher standard of resisting their own emotions, as they carry and are allowed to use weapons that can wound or kill.

My guess is that, if the officer has a department with a spine (ie, they don't pay her off to shut her up), that he'll come out on top. Like I pointed out in my earlier post, she never really got tasered...let alone tasered twice. Also, the taser is not limited in its use for combatative subjects. It's placed in the use of force for most departments where it can be used on people who are passively or actively resisting, even if they're not a direct physical threat to the officer.

I'm also guessing that this was not a totally emotion-driven encounter for the officer. Her defiance was clear and she was not following his directions during the stop. He was reacting to her actions. The only thing he probably regrets is that this has gotten into the media.

[hotrodalex]

I see nothing wrong. She needs to learn to shut up and listen when an LEO is talking to her.

[Lebowski]

He probably was a bit trigger happy w/ the taser, but she's an idiot and I have no sympathy for her.  Any idiot knows you don't get out of your car during a traffic stop, just as any idiot knows you don't get back into your car when instructed not to.  Most importantly - any idiot knows better than to do anything that can be misconstrued as going for a weapon, which is exactly what getting back into the car when told not to will logically be construed as.  She certainly doesn't deserve any money for this.

As a matter of character I'm a loudmouthed, snot-nosed, back-talking asshole myself, yet even I have figured out that if I'm polite to the police during a traffic stop (and follow their instructions), 9 times out of 10 they will be polite back.  It really doesn't take that much self control when they have a gun, a taser, a can of pepper spray, and the legal authority to utterly ruin your day if not your year.

[Catman]

He probably was a bit trigger happy w/ the taser, but she's an idiot and I have no sympathy for her.  Any idiot knows you don't get out of your car during a traffic stop, just as any idiot knows you don't get back into your car when instructed not to.  Most importantly - any idiot knows better than to do anything that can be misconstrued as going for a weapon, which is exactly what getting back into the car when told not to will logically be construed as.  She certainly doesn't deserve any money for this.

As a matter of character I'm a loudmouthed, snot-nosed, back-talking asshole myself, yet even I have figured out that if I'm polite to the police during a traffic stop (and follow their instructions), 9 times out of 10 they will be polite back.  It really doesn't take that much self control when they have a gun, a taser, a can of pepper spray, and the legal authority to utterly ruin your day if not your year.

SOmething tells me this woman is divorced or her husband lets her do the talking.

[Raza]

Why should a tool that usually leads to an arrest of resisting suspects with no injury or long-term side effects be a last resort? Wouldn't you prefer that officers use such a device instead of risking injury by wresting around with them or beating someone into compliance?

Well, it should at least be a second to last resort.  Last being, you know, shooting with a real gun.   

Anyway, I fully support tasers.  I hope the perception of abuse doesn't lead to their banning. 

[bing_oh]

Well, it should at least be a second to last resort.  Last being, you know, shooting with a real gun.   

Anyway, I fully support tasers.  I hope the perception of abuse doesn't lead to their banning.

Most non-LEO's probably don't know it, but OC (pepper) spray went through a long period of debate after it entered into widespread use. In fact, it's very similar to the debates about the Taser now (accusations of deaths related to its use, abuse, etc). I strongly suspect that the Taser is here to stay and the debate will die down, as it did with OC...it's simply too useful of a tool and I don't believe the reports of its direct connection to in-custody deaths.

[Raza]

Most non-LEO's probably don't know it, but OC (pepper) spray went through a long period of debate after it entered into widespread use. In fact, it's very similar to the debates about the Taser now (accusations of deaths related to its use, abuse, etc). I strongly suspect that the Taser is here to stay and the debate will die down, as it did with OC...it's simply too useful of a tool and I don't believe the reports of its direct connection to in-custody deaths.

I never heard of deaths related to pepper spray, but I remember the controversy when they linked pepper spray use to blindness. 

I, for one, like the idea of cops having a non-lethal way of subduing a suspect.  Tasering the wrong guys is a lot better than shooting the wrong guy to death.

[bing_oh]

I never heard of deaths related to pepper spray, but I remember the controversy when they linked pepper spray use to blindness. 

I, for one, like the idea of cops having a non-lethal way of subduing a suspect.  Tasering the wrong guys is a lot better than shooting the wrong guy to death.

Pepper spray was accused of numerous in-custody deaths. The claim was that it caused respiratory arrest. Medical studies showed that it was bogus (these deaths were later blamed on positional asphyxia, which itself was found to be bogus), but the rumors, accusations, and lawsuits continued for some time. There are some people who believe that the current crop of "taser-related deaths" is from the same medical condition that's been blamed on OC-related respiratory arrest and positional asphyxia...currently being called excited delirium.