My dad bought a... Volvo?

[Pommes-T]

Damn nice car. Love the colour and the fact that it's a 300 hp Volvo! 

[cawimmer430]

Yeah, why isn't that in Luxury talk either?

Because 99% of Carspin are such Toyota haters that way! Toyota competes with Mercedes and Lexus competes with Bentley and Rolls Royce. Everyone knows that. 

[Madman]

DUDE!!! A V6 Camry has over 300-horsepower too!!! 

Not to sound pedantic, but the current Camry V6 only has 268 horsepower.  It also doesn't have all wheel drive and a host of other features the S60R has.  Also, Volvo is regarded as a premium brand.  Therefore, this thread belongs in either Luxury Talk or Fast Lane.  An S60R is certainly not "Mainstream" by any stretch of the imagination!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[CJ]

Your dad now owns one of my dream cars, though I'd rather have a V70R.

[VTEC_Inside]

Your dad now owns one of my dream cars, though I'd rather have a V70R.

So would have he, alas the stick shift thing.

[CJ]

Of course.

[cawimmer430]

Not to sound pedantic, but the current Camry V6 only has 268 horsepower.  It also doesn't have all wheel drive and a host of other features the S60R has.  Also, Volvo is regarded as a premium brand.  Therefore, this thread belongs in either Luxury Talk or Fast Lane.  An S60R is certainly not "Mainstream" by any stretch of the imagination!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

The current V6 Camry only has 268-horsepower? Even the top of the line Passat has less horsepower than that (3.2 V6 with 250-hp). The only Passat which has more horsepower than the V6 Camry is the R36 which has 300-horsepower - and you don't see any of them around (much less the normal 3.2 V6 version).

Why does the typical boring mainstream family in America need such a powerful Camry? 

[The Pirate]

The current V6 Camry only has 268-horsepower? Even the top of the line Passat has less horsepower than that (3.2 V6 with 250-hp). The only Passat which has more horsepower than the V6 Camry is the R36 which has 300-horsepower - and you don't see any of them around (much less the normal 3.2 V6 version).

Why does the typical boring mainstream family in America need such a powerful Camry? 

We like our power.  As mentioned before, it's a different market than Europe.  Wider roads, generally longer commutes, etc.  Fuel is still relatively cheap here, and we like our engines big.

[nickdrinkwater]

The current V6 Camry only has 268-horsepower? Even the top of the line Passat has less horsepower than that (3.2 V6 with 250-hp). The only Passat which has more horsepower than the V6 Camry is the R36 which has 300-horsepower - and you don't see any of them around (much less the normal 3.2 V6 version).

Why does the typical boring mainstream family in America need such a powerful Camry? 

I think the US Passat comes with a 3.6 litre V6, I recall seeing a few.

[The Pirate]

I think the US Passat comes with a 3.6 litre V6, I recall seeing a few.

Yes, I forgot about that.  It has 276 hp, I think.  So, just a bit more than the Camry. 

[93JC]

Why does the typical boring mainstream family in America need such a powerful Camry? 

It's not about need. It's about what people want and can afford.

Europeans can't afford big engines, in general, because of the costs associated with fuel and taxes. North Americans are limited by fuel prices to a much lesser extent, and are not limited by taxes whatsoever.

Trust me: if you guys ditched your taxes and fuel was as inexpensive over there as it is over here, you'd all be driving 268 hp Camrys too.

[CALL_911]

The 3.6 is only in the CC, now. It's no longer in the regular Passat. It has 280 hp.

[Vinsanity]

The 3.6 is only in the CC, now. It's no longer in the regular Passat. It has 280 hp.

holy shit, $28 grand for a 2.0T and no other engine options?

[Raza]

holy shit, $28 grand for a 2.0T and no other engine options?

The current Passat is being phased out and completely replaced by the CC until the USM Passat comes out.

[CALL_911]

holy shit, $28 grand for a 2.0T and no other engine options?

2.0T FTW

[nickdrinkwater]

I think it'd be cool to have a Passat 3.6.  I've driven my dad's 1.9 TDI PD and it's nippy enough for mid-range acceleration.  So the 3.6 would absolutely fly!  And like 'JC says, it's matter of affordability.  If I could have a Passat 3.6 for the price of a 1.9 TDI, damn sure I would.

[ifcar]

It's not about need. It's about what people want and can afford.

Europeans can't afford big engines, in general, because of the costs associated with fuel and taxes. North Americans are limited by fuel prices to a much lesser extent, and are not limited by taxes whatsoever.

Trust me: if you guys ditched your taxes and fuel was as inexpensive over there as it is over here, you'd all be driving 268 hp Camrys too.

There are other variables. There's less suburban sprawl in Europe, which is what Camrys are made for. They're not great city cars; not compact or agile enough.

[Madman]

The current Passat is being phased out and completely replaced by the CC until the USM Passat comes out.

Really?  That sucks!  Bad move, Volkswagen!  If I wanted an "American" car, I'd buy a Chevy.  Keep your Americanised Volkswagens and give me the real thing.  Looks like when it comes time the replace the Volvos, I WON'T be looking at VWs.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Vinsanity]

Really?  That sucks!  Bad move, Volkswagen!  If I wanted an "American" car, I'd buy a Chevy.  Keep your Americanised Volkswagens and give me the real thing.  Looks like when it comes time the replace the Volvos, I WON'T be looking at VWs.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

do you know something about this upcoming American Passat that everyone else doesn't?

[Raza]

do you know something about this upcoming American Passat that everyone else doesn't?

He's making an assumption, and it's a pretty valid one.  The Passat and Jetta will become locally produced and marketed, and will likely be a bad thing for enthusiasts and a good thing for sales.  Looking at the cars that dominate the sales charts, it's a short jump to surmise that the new cars will fell less European. 

I'm hoping he's wrong, but until it's proven otherwise, an A6 Jetta is probably not on my list of possible replacements for my A5 when the time comes. 

[ifcar]

He's making an assumption, and it's a pretty valid one.  The Passat and Jetta will become locally produced and marketed, and will likely be a bad thing for enthusiasts and a good thing for sales.  Looking at the cars that dominate the sales charts, it's a short jump to surmise that the new cars will fell less European. 

I'm hoping he's wrong, but until it's proven otherwise, an A6 Jetta is probably not on my list of possible replacements for my A5 when the time comes. 

Meh. It's not as if either the current Passat or most Jetta versions are top fun choices either. The Jetta 2.5 is a snooze and the Passat is too expensive.

[Raza]

Meh. It's not as if either the current Passat or most Jetta versions are top fun choices either. The Jetta 2.5 is a snooze and the Passat is too expensive.

I disagree about the Jetta 2.5.

[Galaxy]

There is an interview in the current AMS with VW head of R&D Ulrich Hackenberg. About the future product placement he said:  The Passat will Still remain a Passat. Tailored towards the American market will be the New Compact Sedan (Jetta replacement) and the New Midsize Sedan. The NMS especially will be americanised with a softer suspension, cupholders in all shapes and sizes etc. All three cars will share the Modular Transverse Component system, along with the next Golf, Polo, A3, etc, etc. The MTCS is really amazing in it?s flexability. They can change the length, width, height, wheel base, and wheel track and yet still have over 60% common components.

[ifcar]

I disagree about the Jetta 2.5.

Do you think enthusiasts actually buy it though, whether you personally like it or not?

[Galaxy]

It should be noted that the often criticised 2.5 Jetta engine forms the bases for the Audi TT-RS.

[ifcar]

It should be noted that the often criticised 2.5 Jetta engine forms the bases for the Audi TT-RS.

It's not just the engine. The base Jetta in general just isn't an enthusiast-mobile.

[2o6]

There are other variables. There's less suburban sprawl in Europe, which is what Camrys are made for. They're not great city cars; not compact or agile enough.

Is that an aside? I'm having trouble as to how it relates to the topic 93JC or Wimmer was making.


Yeah, the city car and subcompact market is large and fierce, and the C-segment range is a big one, but europe does make large cars, though.

[Raza]

Do you think enthusiasts actually buy it though, whether you personally like it or not?

Not as many in the base Jetta, no.  But I know plenty who buy the basically identical Rabbit 2.5.

[ifcar]

Is that an aside? I'm having trouble as to how it relates to the topic 93JC or Wimmer was making.

Was I talking to either 93JC or Wimmer?

[ifcar]

Not as many in the base Jetta, no.  But I know plenty who buy the basically identical Rabbit 2.5.

Is VW replacing both the Golf and the Jetta with a new US car, or will the Golf continue? If the latter, there would be no problem from the enthusiast perspective, except from those who hate hatchbacks.