Consumer Reports comparison: Camaro vs. Mustang vs. Genesis Coupe

[SVT666]

Charger is ugly, Challenger is sexy as hell.

[ifcar]

Challenger sales are currently 1100 per month, very equivalent to the last year of GTO sales (just over 12,000 per year in its last year--seriously insufficient to justify continued production--and Pontiac only had to engineer some badges, a steering wheel, some interior stitching, and a gas tank for the trunk). 

The Nethead here can't say how well a two-door Charger woulda sold--a lot of those sales would surely have been at the expense of sales of the four-door Charger--but I'll bet a two-door Charger woulda sold at least 1100 per month!  A lot less expensive to develop, too--which mighta translated into lower sticker prices and consequently the possibility of higher sales than the overpriced Challenger has managed.

Contrary to the opinions of many, I like the current Charger's styling (sure, it ain't no '68, but few cars in history have had the striking, awesome looks of that greatest of all Chargers, before or since) much more than the current Challenger's looks.  I didn't like the original Challenger's looks either , and the current Challenger looks like the original Challenger with cellulite.  Note that the original Challenger--available with a 440 Six-Pak or the real Hemi--went defunct really, really fast (only the imitation Mustang from American Motors (Javelin, was it?) went defunct faster than the original Challenger).  I consider that to be the marketplace's verdict on the looks of the Challenger...

But then you have a car that's nothing special to look at yet still doesn't drive as well as a Camaro or Mustang. Why would someone buy that?

[Nethead]

But then you have a car that's nothing special to look at yet still doesn't drive as well as a Camaro or Mustang. Why would someone buy that?

ifcar:  Looked at that way, both the Charger and the Challenger may be in big trouble.

[ChrisV]

yeah, I love the looks of the Challenger. I'm glad they made it, too.

they didn't have to give us a musclecar at all. They could have just made bland cars that sell well, like Camry's, and I for one am thankful that that didnt' happen.

And in any comparo, there are going to be winners and losers. Doesn't mean the loser is bad. and I'm franklly tired of the implication that not being the flawless, perfect victor means total utter failure and crap. The bar is so high now that even the worst of the three is a really decent vehicle. Hell, the Camry and Accord are considerably better at the job of being cars than ANY of the pony cars/muscle cars. But I know what I'd rather OWN, and the plain people haulers ain't it.







ANY of those three could grace my driveway and I'd be a happy camper.

[ifcar]

"They could have just made bland cars that sell well, like Camry's, and I for one am thankful that that didnt' happen."

I think if they could, they would. But they haven't successfully made a bland car that sells well in quite some time. The Camry outsells the Sebring more than 10:1, and it's not because Chrysler went out on a limb to make the Sebring something unique.

EDIT: make that more than 20:1. Hadn't checked the latest figures.

[Raza]

I really hope the market softens considerably on used Challengers.  I want one. 

[SVT666]

I really hope the market softens considerably on used Challengers.  I want one. 

I think it will considering they can barely sell them when they're new.

[Raza]

I think it will considering they can barely sell them when they're new.

Yeah, but that could backfire.  Lower new car demand could rollover into higher used car demand.

[MX793]

Yeah, but that could backfire.  Lower new car demand could rollover into higher used car demand.

Indeed.  The number of people who could afford and want a used one are likely much higher than those who could afford and actually bought new ones.  You might have a scenario like with Mk IV Supras, where poor new sales resulted in rarity on the used market and helped hold prices up.

[Raza]

Indeed.  The number of people who could afford and want a used one are likely much higher than those who could afford and actually bought new ones.  You might have a scenario like with Mk IV Supras, where poor new sales resulted in rarity on the used market and helped hold prices up.

There does seem to be a sweet spot for situations like that.  I'd imagine that immediately after the Supra's demise (say for 2-3 years), the prices stayed soft, and then strengthened through underground movements (drag racing, drifting, movie spots) after that.  It's hard to predict what will happen; which cars will become collectibles and which will not.  But Top Gear's formula does seem to apply--two out of the following three: rare, beautiful, interesting.  The Challenger is fairly rare; rare enough, I can't say.  I find it beautiful, I don't know if many others do.  And interesting?  Well, maybe as a historical showpiece of the last gasp of a dying company.  But if Chrysler survives this tumult, it may just fall off into the "loved by few, ignored by most" category. 

[SVT666]

Yeah, but that could backfire.  Lower new car demand could rollover into higher used car demand.

That is very true.

[sportyaccordy]

Yeah, but that could backfire.  Lower new car demand could rollover into higher used car demand.

Yea for some reason cars like this w/a slight "cult" following retain their value. Supras, Corrados, 240SXs, 8-series"es" etc... as long as the cars keep running for a reasonable cost they will retain their value. However, right now 40K or w/e they want for a Challenger R/T is too much, and I don't think the V6 makes sense with the Camaro or Genesis V6 (or used G35/37, 3 series etc) being available

[SVT666]

Yea for some reason cars like this w/a slight "cult" following retain their value. Supras, Corrados, 240SXs, 8-series"es" etc... as long as the cars keep running for a reasonable cost they will retain their value. However, right now 40K or w/e they want for a Challenger R/T is too much, and I don't think the V6 makes sense with the Camaro or Genesis V6 (or used G35/37, 3 series etc) being available

Up here an R/T outfitted pretty much the same as the Camaro goes for the same price.  I just built one on the Dodge.ca website and it came to $42,880 CDN which is almost exactly what a 2SS Camaro goes for.

[Vinsanity]

The thing is, I don't see a reason to buy one over a Camaro

[565]

The Challenger looks like complete and utter shit.

There I said it.

They had an SRT8 at the mall and the thing looked ridiculous.  It managed to look boring, slab sided, misproportioned, and comical all at the same time from every angle.

There is way too much "OMFG it looks just like the old one!" retro shit going on.  Honestly this kind of retro desperation appeals to people who think just because their car looks like it's from 1970 that they will look in the mirror and see they have hair and a six pack again.

[GoCougs]

The Challenger looks like complete and utter shit.

There I said it.

They had an SRT8 at the mall and the thing looked ridiculous.  It managed to look boring, slab sided, misproportioned, and comical all at the same time from every angle.

There is way too much "OMFG it looks just like the old one!" retro shit going on.  Honestly this kind of retro desperation appeals to people who think just because their car looks like it's from 1970 that they will look in the mirror and see they have hair and a six pack again.

Yeah, I completely agree - far too lazy of a retro design job. As I've said 30 times, it wasn't a good idea. The original ('70 - '74) had terrible sales and didn't get much cache until the '80s and '90s, and then only with the uber expensive Hemi versions.

It's playing itself out all over again - in the last few months the Camaro and Mustang are selling 7,000 - 8,000+ units a month, and the Challenger has struggled to crack 1,000.

I don't go so far as to say it looks terrible, but next to the Camaro and Mustang, it is simply outclassed in the styling and design department. These things will be mega bargains on the used market.

[Sigma Projects]

Iono, i think the Challenger looks great, but could gain a little if it was lowered. But I think people in general are just not interested in Dodge. The Charger was the first good step, but after that what else did they do? Basically nothing good IMO. The Challenger probably would do better if Dodges whole line up was more reputable, I think there are a lot of people who think hey "this Challenger looks cool, but eww it's a Dodge must suck, oh it's expensive too, yea I'm not going to chance it." Just like the people on the far side of the spectrum who don't like American cars in general because of the bad rep they acquired in the 80's through mid 90's. It's going to be another 5~10 years before people think completely different about American cars. Dodge seriously should have just reworked all MBs old models, like they got to do with the LX platform at least before they got cut from from them.

I mean people just said how poorly the sales were of the GTO, but the GTO was a good car, but who would give the car a chance when it was lined up next to a Grand Prix and Grand Am... Pontiac in general just wasn't (still really isn't) a popular brand. When a band goes on the deep end of being stereo typed for something for 10~20 years then it's going to take just as long to change that image.

[Raza]

The Challenger looks like complete and utter shit.

There I said it.

They had an SRT8 at the mall and the thing looked ridiculous.  It managed to look boring, slab sided, misproportioned, and comical all at the same time from every angle.

There is way too much "OMFG it looks just like the old one!" retro shit going on.  Honestly this kind of retro desperation appeals to people who think just because their car looks like it's from 1970 that they will look in the mirror and see they have hair and a six pack again.

Wow, you totally described me.  Like, exactly!  I totally wish I were back in the 70s, when I was young and fit and had a great head of hair.  I miss those days.  The bell bottoms, the pot, the....wait a minute....


You like that jumped up Datsun's looks and you don't like this?

[ChrisV]

The Challenger looks like complete and utter shit.

There I said it.

They had an SRT8 at the mall and the thing looked ridiculous.  It managed to look boring, slab sided, misproportioned, and comical all at the same time from every angle.

There is way too much "OMFG it looks just like the old one!" retro shit going on.  Honestly this kind of retro desperation appeals to people who think just because their car looks like it's from 1970 that they will look in the mirror and see they have hair and a six pack again.

Yeah, you got me. I like the Challenger because I wish I was 7 years old again, like when the original came out. 

Personally, I find in person it looks better than the original, with better overall proportions. Not so much a retro version, but a full custom version. Great lines, good overhangs, aggressive treatments front and rear, chunky, aggressive, powerful stance... Looks really good going through traffic. Sounds great and I'd love to have one. It is definitely not generic Japanese/Bangle like so many modern forms have become, and it's not a simple aero jellybean, either.

Sorry, I love it.

[SVT666]

Yeah, you got me. I like the Challenger because I wish I was 7 years old again, like when the original came out. 

Personally, I find in person it looks better than the original, with better overall proportions. Not so much a retro version, but a full custom version. Great lines, good overhangs, aggressive treatments front and rear, chunky, aggressive, powerful stance... Looks really good going through traffic. Sounds great and I'd love to have one. It is definitely not generic Japanese/Bangle like so many modern forms have become, and it's not a simple aero jellybean, either.

Sorry, I love it.

Apparently I like the Challenger because I wish I hadn't been born.