Have you ever thought a speed limit was too fast?

[James Young]

Anyone else ever get the feeling that Bing Oh and James Young are the same person? I just feel like they are talking back and forth, but from the same brain. Trippy, I know.

Oh, the horror!  bing_oh is better read, more articulate, slower to anger and more rational than the other LEOs except perhaps Catman.  I appreciate the civility and would rather discuss with him than . . .

[bing_oh]

Economics is not always about equations, especially public policy economics.  My problem with your approach is that it confuses and, worse, substitutes the techniques of the process for the goals that the public demands.  Remember, techniques by definition are secondary to results.

If you have enforcement techniques that both comply with the law and generate better results, I'd be more than happy to give them a try. Please remember that it can't be anything that requires a change in the law...no matter how much you protest it, it's beyond my ability to alter the law as it's written...and has to be useable in real-world enforcement and within the time and budegtary limitations under which I (a lowly patrol officer) work.

[J86]

Please feel free to quote any inapproprate comments I've made on here, J86. In fact, please forward them to the mods so that they can discipline me approprately. Of all the things I may do around here, I try my damndest to keep the debate civil and adult.

From a couple posts above mine, "Fuck off."  I believe it was coupled with a statement about proper response.  One might argue that the proper response (or at the very least, one more appropriate than directed profanity) would be simple silence.

I understand hackles get raised when a personal attack is perceived (either rightly or wrongly perceived), but I don't think that justifies a hypocritical response.  However, you know what they say about arguing on the internet...

[bing_oh]

Oh, the horror!

I hate to agree with James on anything, but I was thinking something similar...

[bing_oh]

From a couple posts above mine, "Fuck off."  I believe it was coupled with a statement about proper response.  One might argue that the proper response (or at the very least, one more appropriate than directed profanity) would be simple silence.

I understand hackles get raised when a personal attack is perceived (either rightly or wrongly perceived), but I don't think that justifies a hypocritical response.  However, you know what they say about arguing on the internet...

You can't exactly use the "fuck off" comment...besides the fact that it was the phrase that garnered your pot/kettle comment, it was in response to prolonged abuse by NACar, including a tyrade of "fuck off's" in large type for better than half a page that I requested be deleted by the mods without comment or request for discipline. I've done my best to ignore his comments, but I thought that it would be an approprate time to sign off with a simple, apt phrase. From here on out, you can rest assured that NACar will not be graced with any further responses from me...unless they're with a press of the "report to moderator" button if he decides to get too far out of hand.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You can't exactly use the "fuck off" comment...besides the fact that it was the phrase that garnered your pot/kettle comment, it was in response to prolonged abuse by NACar, including a tyrade of "fuck off's" in large type for better than half a page that I requested be deleted by the mods without comment or request for discipline. I've done my best to ignore his comments, but I thought that it would be an approprate time to sign off with a simple, apt phrase. From here on out, you can rest assured that NACar will not be graced with any further responses from me...unless they're with a press of the "report to moderator" button if he decides to get too far out of hand.

This thread is not the place, I suppose.

[James Young]

bing_oh writes: {If you have enforcement techniques that both comply with the law and generate better results, I'd be more than happy to give them a try. Please remember that it can't be anything that requires a change in the law...no matter how much you protest it, it's beyond my ability to alter the law as it's written...and has to be useable in real-world enforcement and within the time and budegtary limitations under which I (a lowly patrol officer) work.}

That?s an awful lot of restrictions; so many, in fact, that one might think you were trying to avoid any changes at all.  First, no significant changes will ever occur unless the law itself changes, significant numbers of agencies change and the entire philosophy changes. 

What can any single officer do on his own?  Don?t stop drivers for excessive speed absent some other immediate and compelling reason, e.g., swerving or ignoring control devices.  What does it matter if somebody is running 50 mph in a 30 mph zone, especially where the 85th percentile speed is 42 mph and the design speed is 55 mph.  Concentrate instead on the impaired, the distracted and the sleepy.  Sleep-deprived drivers kill far more people than speeders, yet get little attention. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

bing_oh writes: {If you have enforcement techniques that both comply with the law and generate better results, I'd be more than happy to give them a try. Please remember that it can't be anything that requires a change in the law...no matter how much you protest it, it's beyond my ability to alter the law as it's written...and has to be useable in real-world enforcement and within the time and budegtary limitations under which I (a lowly patrol officer) work.}

That?s an awful lot of restrictions; so many, in fact, that one might think you were trying to avoid any changes at all.  First, no significant changes will ever occur unless the law itself changes, significant numbers of agencies change and the entire philosophy changes. 

What can any single officer do on his own?  Don?t stop drivers for excessive speed absent some other immediate and compelling reason, e.g., swerving or ignoring control devices.  What does it matter if somebody is running 50 mph in a 30 mph zone, especially where the 85th percentile speed is 42 mph and the design speed is 55 mph.  Concentrate instead on the impaired, the distracted and the sleepy.  Sleep-deprived drivers kill far more people than speeders, yet get little attention. 

Oh, wouldn't it be lovely if we were all required by law to get a full 8-hours of sleep every night!
Oh, sorry, I'll be late for work; I stayed up to watch Conan and but I have to sleep 8 hours no matter what, or I'll get a ticket from the sleep police!

[bing_oh]

That?s an awful lot of restrictions; so many, in fact, that one might think you were trying to avoid any changes at all.  First, no significant changes will ever occur unless the law itself changes, significant numbers of agencies change and the entire philosophy changes.  

What can any single officer do on his own?  Don?t stop drivers for excessive speed absent some other immediate and compelling reason, e.g., swerving or ignoring control devices.  What does it matter if somebody is running 50 mph in a 30 mph zone, especially where the 85th percentile speed is 42 mph and the design speed is 55 mph.  Concentrate instead on the impaired, the distracted and the sleepy.  Sleep-deprived drivers kill far more people than speeders, yet get little attention.

Yes, it's an awful lot of restrictions, though I'm not trying to avoid any change as you may think. Those are the restrictions I'm bound by. I don't make the rules, I just work within them. I'm just a patrol officer in a small town PD...I don't get to make policy changes for my own department, let alone those across the state or the entire country. Hell, I can't talk my chief into buying us new staplers for the patrol room, let alone get him to change department policy!

As for arbitrarily ignoring a law (speeding), I can't do that either. "Protect, defend, and uphold the Constitution and the laws of the state of Ohio" was the oath I took and the job I get paid for. To intentionally not enforce the law isn't just a violation of my oath, but potentially a criminal act on my part. Interestingly enough, most of my traffic enforcement is centered around locating impaired drivers. I'm on midnight shift, where virtually every traffic stop I make is in search of intoxicated drivers or non-related criminal activity. What is interesting about that is, most imparied drivers I arrest aren't stopped for clear indications of impairment but for minor traffic violations...like speeding. In my current assignment, most minor traffic violations are used as pretextual stops to search for larger violations like DUI.

[TurboDan]

Well, in this area, there are different speed limits between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Also, the traffic lights are turned off in October and revert to flashing amber until Memorial Day. On our main road, Long Beach Boulevard, the speed limit goes from 30 in the summer to 50 during the off-season.