Lexus crash raises some questions.

[Raza]

The ones that are raised up over the lip and have the small opening?  I really like those.  No spills in the cupholder.  I hate cleaning coffee out of my cupholder. 

Not that I really drink coffee in the car anymore. 

[VTEC_Inside]

Sorry, if you had time to call 911, you had plenty of time to figure out at least one way of stopping the car.

As far as I know, there is no car that has any type of lock mechanism to prevent a shift from D to N.

The rev limiter would prevent the engine from blowing while you figured out how to shut it off anyway. Plus when you come to a stop the lower rev limiter would kick in and drop the revs to around 4000rpms as well.

What makes this more difficult to believe is that I can understand reluctance to do that in your own car, but this was a freakin loaner, who cares...

[JWC]

Maybe. 

The BMW 118i has an engine start/stop button and I can't for the love of Christ try to imagine how I might accidentally press it while driving. 

A friend has a Toyota ( I think) that has a push-to-start button located on the right side of the steering column.   At that position, it isn't that difficult for someone in the passenger seat to reach over and push the button...say a child.  When I worked for a Honda dealer, we towed in an Accord that had been shoved into park at over 60mph.  It was an irate child, pissed because he couldn't have ice cream.  The transmission exploded and the car started doing 360's down the 680.

Three seconds is probably to make it child proof.  You wouldn't believe the number of vehicles that came in for warranty radio repairs that turned out to have pennies and dimes in them from kids feeding coins into the CD player slot.  A lot of seat belt problems also result from coin insertion.   

[Speed_Racer]

A friend has a Toyota ( I think) that has a push-to-start button located on the right side of the steering column.   At that position, it isn't that difficult for someone in the passenger seat to reach over and push the button...say a child.  When I worked for a Honda dealer, we towed in an Accord that had been shoved into park at over 60mph.  It was an irate child, pissed because he couldn't have ice cream.  The transmission exploded and the car started doing 360's down the 680.

Three seconds is probably to make it child proof.  You wouldn't believe the number of vehicles that came in for warranty radio repairs that turned out to have pennies and dimes in them from kids feeding coins into the CD player slot.  A lot of seat belt problems also result from coin insertion.   

Sounds like instead of more interlocks, we need better parenting. Oh wait, that requires personal responsibility. Sorry to go off-topic.

[565]

Maybe. 

The BMW 118i has an engine start/stop button and I can't for the love of Christ try to imagine how I might accidentally press it while driving. 

I thought BMW's were the same way.  Go try it, I'd be surprised if it shuts down with a single press of the button while moving at high speed.  Lexus's press and hold thing is pretty standard issue I believe.

[Morris Minor]

He evidently:
could not put it into neutral.
could not use the brakes.
could not shut off the engine.
Wow.

We also learn:
"... when the throttle pedal is fully open unintentionally, some drivers react by hitting the brakes multiple times. This action depletes the vehicle's vacuum-based power assist, and without that assistance, the brakes must be applied with much more force. Continued driving in that manner can result in overheating the brakes, further diminishing their effectiveness."

So you lose servo vacuum when the engine is racing. We are duly warned.

[Submariner]

You wouldn't think someone would start a car while in gear, but people did and now we have clutch interlocks. And on automatic transmissions, brake pedal interlocks. And cups of coffee have "CAUTION: CONTENTS MAY BE HOT" on them, in case you forgot what coffee is like.

People are, in general, very, very stupid.

ZOMG HOT COFFEE SCALDED MY FAT ASS I NEED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO QUENCH THE PAIN LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Submariner]

A friend has a Toyota ( I think) that has a push-to-start button located on the right side of the steering column.   At that position, it isn't that difficult for someone in the passenger seat to reach over and push the button...say a child.  When I worked for a Honda dealer, we towed in an Accord that had been shoved into park at over 60mph.  It was an irate child, pissed because he couldn't have ice cream.  The transmission exploded and the car started doing 360's down the 680.

Three seconds is probably to make it child proof.  You wouldn't believe the number of vehicles that came in for warranty radio repairs that turned out to have pennies and dimes in them from kids feeding coins into the CD player slot.  A lot of seat belt problems also result from coin insertion.   

Damn...i'd beat the hell out of that little bastard.

[Raza]

Sounds like instead of more interlocks, we need better parenting. Oh wait, that requires personal responsibility. Sorry to go off-topic.

Sounds more like we need fewer children.


I'll get my shovel.

[cawimmer430]

A friend has a Toyota ( I think) that has a push-to-start button located on the right side of the steering column.   At that position, it isn't that difficult for someone in the passenger seat to reach over and push the button...say a child.  When I worked for a Honda dealer, we towed in an Accord that had been shoved into park at over 60mph.  It was an irate child, pissed because he couldn't have ice cream.  The transmission exploded and the car started doing 360's down the 680.

Yep, definitely a Honda.   

Three seconds is probably to make it child proof.  You wouldn't believe the number of vehicles that came in for warranty radio repairs that turned out to have pennies and dimes in them from kids feeding coins into the CD player slot.  A lot of seat belt problems also result from coin insertion.   

True. Good point. I had completely forgotten about the child safety aspect. It does make sense though.

On the other hand, in a near accident situation 3 seconds is a lot of time...

[r0tor]

this is one odd story... sadly, i believe the officers aumotive intelligence probably rates up there with the officer who ticketed my friends audi for a blown tailight despite all attempts to show him both tailights were working and the difference between the two was the rear fog light.

[shp4man]

To those of us who work on automotive electronic systems, it's common knowledge that the Japanese aren't exactly cutting edge in the latest electronic systems. Like electronic throttle bodies for example.

[GoCougs]

To those of us who work on automotive electronic systems, it's common knowledge that the Japanese aren't exactly cutting edge in the latest electronic systems. Like electronic throttle bodies for example.

So this means Japanese throttle bodies are are prone to jam open and for nanny systems (i.e., brake use with throttle open = engine cut-off) to fail simultaneously?

[shp4man]

So this means Japanese throttle bodies are are prone to jam open and for nanny systems (i.e., brake use with throttle open = engine cut-off) to fail simultaneously?

I don't know what happened. But this particular car did have a problem with the throttle. It also burst into flame after it came to a stop. It may have been some kind of PCM software issue, I don't know.

[Colonel Cadillac]

Neutral + brakes?

[Morris Minor]

this is one odd story... sadly, i believe the officers aumotive intelligence probably rates up there with the officer who ticketed my friends audi for a blown tailight despite all attempts to show him both tailights were working and the difference between the two was the rear fog light.

I hope your friend contested the ticket.

[GoCougs]

I don't know what happened. But this particular car did have a problem with the throttle. It also burst into flame after it came to a stop. It may have been some kind of PCM software issue, I don't know.

Sorry - with article as written I don't buy the stuck throttle or multi-mechanical failure conclusion at all.

I'm all ears if/when there is objective data available.

[r0tor]

I hope your friend contested the ticket.

he's getting a DUI out of it (.09 BAC vs vs limit of .08) 

[Morris Minor]

Neutral + brakes?

You woulda thunk... but we learn from the article that...
"The [NHTSA] researchers also said that when the throttle pedal is fully open unintentionally, some drivers react by hitting the brakes multiple times. This action depletes the vehicle's vacuum-based power assist..."

It seems that brake servos stop working at wide open throttle.

[r0tor]

i bed in my brake pads by applying the gas and break at the same time... the brakes always work

[Morris Minor]

I'd say the article was written by exceptionally-lazy people of low intelligence - American journalists in other words.

[VTEC_Inside]

i bed in my brake pads by applying the gas and break at the same time... the brakes always work

The article points out that at WOT there is next to no manifold vacuum to restore the vacuum in the brake booster. It would be like stepping on the brakes with the engine off. You'd get like 2 pumps and then no more assist.

[r0tor]

The article points out that at WOT there is next to no manifold vacuum to restore the vacuum in the brake booster. It would be like stepping on the brakes with the engine off. You'd get like 2 pumps and then no more assist.

have you ever tried auto-xing using leftfoot braking - its not uncommon to be jumping on the brakes while your foots still on the gas...  

Also commonly in racing before a turn on a long straight, the driver will pump the brake a few times before the braking zone to test the brakes and get the pads out close to the rotors...

[AutobahnSHO]

You wouldn't think someone would start a car while in gear, but people did and now we have clutch interlocks. And on automatic transmissions, brake pedal interlocks. And cups of coffee have "CAUTION: CONTENTS MAY BE HOT" on them, in case you forgot what coffee is like.

People are, in general, very, very stupid.

Don't forget DANGER DON'T OPEN THE SODA BOTTLE WHILE POINTING THE CAP AT YOUR EYES warnings.

[93JC]

Orly?

Haven't seen that. My little bottle of Coke Zero doesn't have any warnings on it.

[VTEC_Inside]

have you ever tried auto-xing using leftfoot braking - its not uncommon to be jumping on the brakes while your foots still on the gas... 

Also commonly in racing before a turn on a long straight, the driver will pump the brake a few times before the braking zone to test the brakes and get the pads out close to the rotors...

I get all that, but if the throttle butterfly doesn't close at all there is simply no new vacuum generated.

[r0tor]

even at WOT there is vacuum (unless your FI).  air would never be sucked through the intake if there was no pressure difference...

[VTEC_Inside]

have you ever tried auto-xing using leftfoot braking - its not uncommon to be jumping on the brakes while your foots still on the gas... 

Also commonly in racing before a turn on a long straight, the driver will pump the brake a few times before the braking zone to test the brakes and get the pads out close to the rotors...

I get all that, but if the throttle butterfly doesn't close at all there is simply no new vacuum generated.

even at WOT there is vacuum (unless your FI).  air would never be sucked through the intake if there was no pressure difference...

But the pressure difference is within the cylinders, not within the intake manifold.

I guess the real question is, is there still enough of a pressure difference in the intake manifold at WOT for air to be pulled from the brake booster vs the open throttle body?

[93JC]

even at WOT there is vacuum (unless your FI).  air would never be sucked through the intake if there was no pressure difference...

At WOT manifold vacuum is at its lowest, though.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch.

[r0tor]

At WOT manifold vacuum is at its lowest, though.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch.

however, if you pop a vaccuum hose off it will futz everything up and you will hear the air leak....