SUV

[SVT666]

I just read that the 3.7L and 4.7L Commanders only come with AWD and no low range.  WTF?  A Jeep with no low range?  I might have to go with the Explorer just based on that.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I just read that the 3.7L and 4.7L Commanders only come with AWD and no low range.  WTF?  A Jeep with no low range?  I might have to go with the Explorer just based on that.

Low range is not neccessary because Jeeps have hill descent control!!   

[The Pirate]

I just read that the 3.7L and 4.7L Commanders only come with AWD and no low range.  WTF?  A Jeep with no low range?  I might have to go with the Explorer just based on that.

The 4.7L V8 was available with Quadra-Drive II, which does indeed have a low range.   I do believe you're correct on the V6 model, though.

[SVT666]

The 4.7L V8 was available with Quadra-Drive II, which does indeed have a low range.   I do believe you're correct on the V6 model, though.

Only if you get the Limited.  Which is stupid.  Someone who buys a base model is probably more likely to take his truck off road then someone who spends $45K on one decked out in leather and shit.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Only if you get the Limited.  Which is stupid.  Someone who buys a base model is probably more likely to take his truck off road then someone who spends $45K on one decked out in leather and shit.

I would expect Canadian models to come standard with 4wd and 2-speed t-cases since you guys don't even have roads up there.

[GoCougs]

And there's not going to be much if any difference in daily-driven MPG between the 4.7L and 5.7L - weight is going to be the key determinant (and both weigh about the same) plus the 4.7L is of an older design. The 5.7L will only get noticeably lower MPG when under full load (and then who cares?), and then it will only be relatively slight (10-20% I'd estimate).

[S204STi]

Low range is not neccessary because Jeeps have hill descent control!!   

What about climbing stuff?  It's ok to just nuke the transmission on steep climbs?

[Eye of the Tiger]

What about climbing stuff?  It's ok to just nuke the transmission on steep climbs?

Jeeps have Hill Start Assist! Low range has been proven obsolete! I don't even know why they have transmissions anymore! 

[Eye of the Tiger]

And now comes the retarded idea that I've had for probably 10+ years, and has probably been done before, but I haven't seen it: electric low-range. It could easily be implemented in conjunction with a mild gas-electric hybrid setup. Use an electric motor in place of a transfer case to crawl up and down steep grades. Electric motors have about infinity torque from a stop - perfect for this application. For packaging purposes, perhaps the electric drive train could be exclusive to one axle, and the gas drive train to the other axle. With modern computer controls, I'm sure it wouldn't be too much of a 'stretch' to coordinate the two ends. Just a thought from a retard.

[SVT666]

And there's not going to be much if any difference in daily-driven MPG between the 4.7L and 5.7L - weight is going to be the key determinant (and both weigh about the same) plus the 4.7L is of an older design. The 5.7L will only get noticeably lower MPG when under full load (and then who cares?), and then it will only be relatively slight (10-20% I'd estimate).

That's what they said about the Ram too, but anybody I knew with a Hemi, including myself, got noticeably worse mileage then anyone with a 4.7L.  It's also next to impossible to find a Hemi in our price range. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

That's what they said about the Ram too, but anybody I knew with a Hemi, including myself, got noticeably worse mileage then anyone with a 4.7L.  It's also next to impossible to find a Hemi in our price range. 

Your requirements are nearly impossible unless you compromise. I say give up this 7-set requirement. 'Tis silly.

[GoCougs]

And now comes the retarded idea that I've had for probably 10+ years, and has probably been done before, but I haven't seen it: electric low-range. It could easily be implemented in conjunction with a mild gas-electric hybrid setup. Use an electric motor in place of a transfer case to crawl up and down steep grades. Electric motors have about infinity torque from a stop - perfect for this application. For packaging purposes, perhaps the electric drive train could be exclusive to one axle, and the gas drive train to the other axle. With modern computer controls, I'm sure it wouldn't be too much of a 'stretch' to coordinate the two ends. Just a thought from a retard.

Nope - a good thought. For example, locomotives and those guaranteeing mining trucks employ a diesel generator/electric motor drive train for exactly that reason (get rid of gearing owing to the typical flat speed/torque curve of an electric motor). The issue I see is that the vast majority of retail buyers do not know what low-range is let alone use it and thus would likely not pay for the add'l cost for a fancier/better version of it.

[SVT666]

Your requirements are nearly impossible unless you compromise. I say give up this 7-set requirement. 'Tis silly.

Actually it's not.  My daughter is at the age where she wants a friend to come with us wherever we go, and when my mother-in-law comes to visit, it's usually for a month or so.  We need the 7 seats because I don't want to be taking two cars whenever we go anywhere. 

Although, I may tell my wife I'll be happy to take my car wherever we go when her mom is in town.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Actually it's not.  My daughter is at the age where she wants a friend to come with us wherever we go, and when my mother-in-law comes to visit, it's usually for a month or so.  We need the 7 seats because I don't want to be taking two cars whenever we go anywhere. 

Although, I may tell my wife I'll be happy to take my car wherever we go when her mom is in town.

Eh, strap the kiddies on the roof.

But if you're actually going to be carrying 7 people, and going on trips and stuff a small 7-seater like the Commander or Explorer aren't going to have any room left over for luggage. Maybe you really need to consider an Excursion, or...

[SVT666]

Eh, strap the kiddies on the roof.

But if you're actually going to be carrying 7 people, and going on trips and stuff a small 7-seater like the Commander or Explorer aren't going to have any room left over for luggage. Maybe you really need to consider an Excursion, or...

Trust me, I would kill for a 4x4 van conversion, but that ain't something my wife would go for.  The 6th or 7th seat will only be used on occasion, and we'll probably get a Thule for the roof.  But like I said, I just might tell my wife that I'll take my car wherever we go with her mother until my son is out of the full size car seat and the middle seat will be useable.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Trust me, I would kill for a 4x4 van conversion, but that ain't something my wife would go for.  The 6th or 7th seat will only be used on occasion, and we'll probably get a Thule for the roof.  But like I said, I just might tell my wife that I'll take my car wherever we go with her mother until my son is out of the full size car seat and the middle seat will be useable.

Buy a 4x4 van just for trips, get your wife a Yaris.

[SVT666]

Buy a 4x4 van just for trips, get your wife a Yaris.

[S204STi]

Nope - a good thought. For example, locomotives and those guaranteeing mining trucks employ a diesel generator/electric motor drive train for exactly that reason (get rid of gearing owing to the typical flat speed/torque curve of an electric motor). The issue I see is that the vast majority of retail buyers do not know what low-range is let alone use it and thus would likely not pay for the add'l cost for a fancier/better version of it.

I remember when I lived in LC trying to explain to tourists why the 4x4 passes nearby required high ground clearance and low range.  Very few people understood the point, and others thought I was just some dumb kid and that they new better since they were middle-aged, balding, and therefore more intelligent.

[S204STi]

Jeeps have Hill Start Assist! Low range has been proven obsolete! I don't even know why they have transmissions anymore!  

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll bite anyway.  Hill Start Assist doesn't provide torque multiplication, so your constantly stalled-out torque converter cooks your transmission fluid on long steep climbs.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll bite anyway.  Hill Start Assist doesn't provide torque multiplication, so your constantly stalled-out torque converter cooks your transmission fluid on long steep climbs.

Absolutely.

Jeeps can cook transmission fluid all day long because they have have gigantic nitrous-sprayed tranny coolers!! 

[S204STi]

Absolutely.

Jeeps can cook transmission fluid all day long because they have have gigantic nitrous-sprayed tranny coolers!! 

See, you're good at it.

I also can't tell if you've being a raging neo-con or not.

[TBR]

WTF, how does that work?

And I thought the Panamera was RWD...

AWD is available on the S and standard on the Turbo

[Submariner]

WTF, how does that work?

And I thought the Panamera was RWD...

There is the:

Panamera S
Panamera 4S
Turbo.

The turbo and 4S have AWD.  The S hits 60 in 5.2, and the 4S hits it in 4.8.  The turbo is 4.0, or perhaps less. 

[AutobahnSHO]

And now comes the retarded idea that I've had for probably 10+ years, and has probably been done before, but I haven't seen it: electric low-range. It could easily be implemented in conjunction with a mild gas-electric hybrid setup. Use an electric motor in place of a transfer case to crawl up and down steep grades. Electric motors have about infinity torque from a stop - perfect for this application. For packaging purposes, perhaps the electric drive train could be exclusive to one axle, and the gas drive train to the other axle. With modern computer controls, I'm sure it wouldn't be too much of a 'stretch' to coordinate the two ends. Just a thought from a retard.

great idea.!
Actually all you need is another gear for the starter motor and a fan on it.

[old story]
In HS I got out of work 1am and decided to go driving my parents' rwd weak datsun b210 up behind the high school. On dirt roads. Got teh car stuck. Tried to go forward, I either spun or stalled. Tried to go back, I was stuck against some kinda bump. I stalled and figured I'd try One More Time- I forgot to clutch in as I started, and the starter pulled me up a good 20ft of fairly steep dirt hill.[/old story]

Lotsa torque!

[SVT32V]

I just read that the 3.7L and 4.7L Commanders only come with AWD and no low range.  WTF?  A Jeep with no low range?  I might have to go with the Explorer just based on that.

The 3.7 only has quadra-trac I, it is just awd.  The 4.7 can have either the quadra-trac II, which does have a 2-speed transfer case with low range, much like any other reasonable SUV, nothing fancy much like a 4-runner.  The 4.7 also can have the optional quadra-drive II with locking differentials and two speed transfer case with 4-low.  So the 4.7 that you want can/will have a 4-low.

Not all explorers have low range, those that say awd on the back have the same kind of weaksauce nasty setup as the v6 commander.  Only some have a real two-speed transfer case.

[SVT666]

The 3.7 only has quadra-trac I, it is just awd.  The 4.7 can have either the quadra-trac II, which does have a 2-speed transfer case with low range, much like any other reasonable SUV, nothing fancy much like a 4-runner.  The 4.7 also can have the optional quadra-drive II with locking differentials and two speed transfer case with 4-low.  So the 4.7 that you want can/will have a 4-low.

I think it's stupid that a Jeep can even be bought as a 2WD, let alone no 4 Lo.

Not all explorers have low range, those that say awd on the back have the same kind of weaksauce nasty setup as the v6 commander.  Only some have a real two-speed transfer case.

Every Explorer I've ever seen has 4 Lo.  Even the AWD versions have 4 Hi and 4 Lo.  At least the ones I've seen anyway.

[GoCougs]

I'd be wary of the QT-II - it uses hydraulics to engage the differentials. Sounds cool, but something I wouldn't want to own after a few years.

[S204STi]

I think it's stupid that a Jeep can even be bought as a 2WD, let alone no 4 Lo.
Every Explorer I've ever seen has 4 Lo.  Even the AWD versions have 4 Hi and 4 Lo.  At least the ones I've seen anyway.

Apparently there was a model in the previous gen which featured the 5.0 and AWD minus a low range.  I have a parts guy here who owned one.

[SVT32V]

I think it's stupid that a Jeep can even be bought as a 2WD, let alone no 4 Lo.

You will get no argument there from me.


Every Explorer I've ever seen has 4 Lo.  Even the AWD versions have 4 Hi and 4 Lo.  At least the ones I've seen anyway.

Nope there are plenty of awd one speed transfer case explorers, much like the lincoln aviator, navigator, escalade etc.  If you are going to have a BOF SUV and why have only awd?
Anyway here is a description of the explorer awd system:


" the transfer case is a Borg-Warner make. It is the same case GMC used in the S15 Typhoon hot-rod. Usage indicates exceptional reliability. The AWD does not have a center disconnect as does a 4WD. The AWD is a single-speed transfer case. Therefore, the AWD does not have a low range like 4WD. Under severe off-road conditions, the AWD would not perform like the 4WD low range.

....the AWD functions like this: the transfer case has no driver input; i.e., no switch. Thirty-five percent of the torque is distributed to the front axle; sixty-five percent to the rear axle at all times. When wheel slippage occurs, the viscous clutch in the transfer case transfers more torque to the axle that has the most traction.....35% torque to the front/ 65% to the rear is a measurement under normal conditions. If the front end was affected by icy road conditions, where the transfer case clutch transferred the maximum torque to the front axle, the ratio could be 50/50 or even 65% (front) and 35% (rear). According to Ford Engineering personnel, AWD testing in off-road dirt/ sand conditions, the AWD performed superbly."

[Galaxy]

The AWD is a single-speed transfer case. Therefore, the AWD does not have a low range like 4WD. Under severe off-road conditions, the AWD would not perform like the 4WD low range.

That is misleading as it implies that all AWD systems inherently  have no low range. Which is wrong.