SUV

[CJ]

That Montero....   I love them.

[SVT666]

That generation Explorer has IRS, which is no good off road (might as well buy a Subaru). The Trailblazer is a piece off road, too, especially the LWB versions. They have waaaay too little clearance for their wheelbase.

I'm not doing hardcore offroading, so the IRS in the Explorer is probably just fine.  The Trailblazer is out anyway becasue my parents own one and my sister owns an Envoy and I don't feel like making it a trio.

[omicron]

Egads! All these Multivan/Caravelle variants are astonishingly marvellous. I've only ever experienced them at motor shows, and there really is an incredible amount of room inside.

[S204STi]

No low range.

Damn, you're right.

That generation Explorer has IRS, which is no good off road (might as well buy a Subaru). The Trailblazer is a piece off road, too, especially the LWB versions. They have waaaay too little clearance for their wheelbase.

IRS is no good off-road eh?  Don't tell the Hummer H1.

I agree with the Trailblazer being worthless as an off-road vehicle though. 

[AutobahnSHO]

Yes it is large but it is also space efficient. For example they also offer a compact offroad RV version of the Panamericana called Cape2Cape. Basically a fusion of the Panamericana and the California. The amount of features they can stuff in that thing is amazing.

When we were van-shopping the wife saw one (REGULAR non-tricked-out version,) and wanted to test drive it because the middle captain's chairs face backwards.  
-it was over-priced, kinda beat up, and LARGE. If we needed Uber-Space I would have considered it, it was pretty cool.
(They're overpriced here because they're pretty rare.)

[Submariner]

I really like the look of the Commander.  My wife is kinda "ho-hum" about it, and she likes the look of the Explorer better.  I'm trying to talk her into the Commander.

I think you should use a Compass.

Problem:  Wife doesn't like the best car for your money.

Solution:  Buy it.

[Submariner]

Damn, you're right.

IRS is no good off-road eh?  Don't tell the Hummer H1.

I agree with the Trailblazer being worthless as an off-road vehicle though. 

I would venture to say that the H1 is the exception to that rule...

[S204STi]

I would venture to say that the H1 is the exception to that rule...

To be fair, it has like geared hubs and a ton of wheel travel and ground clearance...

I don't know enough about why one would be better than the other... maybe some experienced offroaders can clue me in.

[Cookie Monster]

To be fair, it has like geared hubs and a ton of wheel travel and ground clearance...

I don't know enough about why one would be better than the other... maybe some experienced offroaders can clue me in.

I think solid axle is better because you get a lot more articulation with it since if one wheel goes up the other wheel is pushed down and both wheels will be on the ground so you get more traction.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think solid axle is better because you get a lot more articulation with it since if one wheel goes up the other wheel is pushed down and both wheels will be on the ground so you get more traction.

wat

[S204STi]

I think solid axle is better because you get a lot more articulation with it since if one wheel goes up the other wheel is pushed down and both wheels will be on the ground so you get more traction.

I would think that IRS would be better able to keep the tires planted over uneven terrain.

[TBR]

Yeah, it was never sold in Canada so importing it might be difficult.  Even if importing it can be done, getting parts and finding a shop that knows how to work on it might be difficult.

Didn't realize that.

I love the quirkiness, but I probably would never buy one for the same reasons you listed, even though they were sold here in the first place. Plus they aren't nearly as cheap as you would think.

[TBR]

Solid axles are generally more reliable, that's one of the advantages for sure.

[SVT666]

Solid axles have far less moving parts...therefore less parts to break.  They are typically stronger and allow more articulation.  For soft-roading though, IRS has no disadvangages.  If anything it's better due to the higher ground clearance provided by not having the pumpkin hanging down well below the wheel hubs.

[Cookie Monster]

wat

That was my guess.

[The Pirate]

I think solid axle is better because you get a lot more articulation with it since if one wheel goes up the other wheel is pushed down and both wheels will be on the ground so you get more traction.

R-inge is correct that independent suspension does a better job of keeping the tires planted on uneven terrain.  You're correct with regards to articulation.  Lots of stock vehicles have sway bars, which are great on road, but hurt performance off road (it's pretty easy for a stock vehicle to have a wheel suspended in the air on really uneven terrain.

Where live axles excel is not 'lowering' the car onto an obstacle when the suspension is working.  It's tough to explain, but with the wheels working independently, one side will compress and the wheel tucks up in.  With a live axle, the wheel does tuck, but it doesn't bring the vehicle closer to the obstacle.  Picture an independent suspension vehicle parked with the two passenger side wheels on the curb.  Picture the same thing, with a vehicle with live axles.  That's the easiest demonstration.

But, as Hemi said, for soft-roading, independent suspension is not going to be any worse (indeed, it's going to be superior on logging roads, etc.).

[Raza]

I really like the look of the Commander.  My wife is kinda "ho-hum" about it, and she likes the look of the Explorer better.  I'm trying to talk her into the Commander.

I think you should use a Compass.

The Compass is the really hideous one, right?

[Rupert]

I'm not doing hardcore offroading, so the IRS in the Explorer is probably just fine.  The Trailblazer is out anyway becasue my parents own one and my sister owns an Envoy and I don't feel like making it a trio.

Seems to me that the 'Sploder doesn't have much clearance, either, but it's probably enough... 

[Rupert]

Damn, you're right.

IRS is no good off-road eh?  Don't tell the Hummer H1.

I agree with the Trailblazer being worthless as an off-road vehicle though.  

The Hummer H1 isn't any good off road, either. At least not in real-world situations with narrow roads and trails. It is actually pretty good in wide-open situations, but, at least where I live and drive (which is the entire west, practically), that doesn't happen very often. The reason it's good is that is has a ton of travel, which the vast majority of IRS vehicles lack. A great way to see the advantages of a solid axle vs IRS is to watch some rock crawling videos on YouTube, and then some Subaru vids.

Of course, on all the forest roads of varying conditions I drive, even for work, a solid axle is useful only about 10% of the time, or less, and I drive the worst roads.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Rodeo doesn't have super ground clearance, but the axles were never the problem - it's the shit in between them.

[Rupert]

Rodeo doesn't have super ground clearance, but the axles were never the problem - it's the shit in between them.

I hate that. 1st gen Durangos have a lot of crap hanging down right in the middle. Not as silly as some 'Yotas, though, which have great clearance, but for the transmission mount that hangs down 3-4 inches right in the middle. I suppose that just looks like it'd be a problem, but isn't. They've still got a ton of clearance.

Some of the GM trucks are pretty bad, too, now that I think about it. They often have low-slung frame rails, so the thing looks high, until you look under the body. The Blazer and 2500HD at work have both got that problem.

[SVT666]

Seems to me that the 'Sploder doesn't have much clearance, either, but it's probably enough... 

The Exploder of your vintage has 6.5" of ground clearance, but I think that's taken directly underneath the rear pumpkin.  We used to smack rocks quite a bit when we had ours, though it was the longer wheelbase 4 door. 

[SVT666]

The Compass is the really hideous one, right?

Yeah, it's a POS.

[Rupert]

The Exploder of your vintage has 6.5" of ground clearance, but I think that's taken directly underneath the rear pumpkin.  We used to smack rocks quite a bit when we had ours, though it was the longer wheelbase 4 door. 

Yeah, that's the lowest point. I haven't measured in the middle, but it's a good deal more. Probably 8-10 inches. It's enough for most things, at any rate. Mine is a four door, too.

[S204STi]

The Hummer H1 isn't any good off road, either. At least not in real-world situations with narrow roads and trails. It is actually pretty good in wide-open situations, but, at least where I live and drive (which is the entire west, practically), that doesn't happen very often. The reason it's good is that is has a ton of travel, which the vast majority of IRS vehicles lack. A great way to see the advantages of a solid axle vs IRS is to watch some rock crawling videos on YouTube, and then some Subaru vids.

Of course, on all the forest roads of varying conditions I drive, even for work, a solid axle is useful only about 10% of the time, or less, and I drive the worst roads.

See, I disagree with your view of the H1.  Maybe I'm biased since my family owned and operated one off-road for, oh, 8 years.

But I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing match.  I see the advantages and disadvantages of each.  I realize there is a reason serious off-roaders like a solid axle Jeep Wrangler over just about anything else.

[SVT666]

See, I disagree with your view of the H1.  Maybe I'm biased since my family owned and operated one off-road for, oh, 8 years.

But I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing match.  I see the advantages and disadvantages of each.  I realize there is a reason serious off-roaders like a solid axle Jeep Wrangler over just about anything else.

The Hummer sucks in the places I grew up going.  They are too wide and just plain too big.  There is no denying their offroad prowess (I would love to have an H1), but for most of the trails I used to go on, the Ranger we had was about the perfect size, and anything bigger had trouble.

[SVT666]

Yeah, that's the lowest point. I haven't measured in the middle, but it's a good deal more. Probably 8-10 inches. It's enough for most things, at any rate. Mine is a four door, too.

Yeah the rear axle got in the way a bunch.  We scraped the bottom a few times that I remember, but for most things, the ground clearance was adequate (if you carefully avoided things).

[S204STi]

The Hummer sucks in the places I grew up going.  They are too wide and just plain too big.  There is no denying their offroad prowess (I would love to have an H1), but for most of the trails I used to go on, the Ranger we had was about the perfect size, and anything bigger had trouble.

I'd love to get a jeep and just explore some other areas of the continent off-road.  My experience is limited to SW Colorado.

[omicron]

Problem:  Wife doesn't like the best car for your money.

Solution:  Buy it.

Amen.

[Raza]

The H1 sucks where I grew up too. 



Nothing but paved roads.