Zastava Florida In L

[2o6]

The Megane, Avantime and Vel Satis are positively delightful. They're so strange and cool, I just go ga-ga over them.

[2o6]

I don't understand how the French (Renault in particular) can make their base models so slow. You can get a new Scenic with a 1.4L 80HP motor.

[CaMIRO]

The Megane, Avantime and Vel Satis are positively delightful. They're so strange and cool, I just go ga-ga over them.

Agreed. But apparently the Megane's tail cost them sales; and they sure didn't have the staying power to stick it out in the high-end segment with the other two.

Looks aside - the Vel Satis' biggest problem was that it didn't ride very well; and I'd say the same of Laguna III.

Nissan does some good stuff (engines, in particular), but I've never driven a Nissan whose ride quality I liked. The Laguna III shares parts with the Altima; a really bad decision on Renault's part, frankly. No one can quite make a car ride like the French - and I'm not even talking about hydraulic Citroens. An old Peugeot 504 will teach many new cars a lesson or two in this regard.

I felt bad for Matra when the Avantime was canned after a few short model years (I think it was just 2?!) Matra was building the car for Renault, and was left with nothing to do. They - not Renault - came up with the segment-busting minivan in 1984; the car that Renault had them build for it under the "Espace" name.

You'd think that alone would have been enough to give Matra another shot. Ah, well.

[cawimmer430]

I searched low and high for that Ansa muffler, and those wheels... the Italians made them for Renault, although I don't think they were ever offered by the actual dealerships. I found them in the garage of a guy who also had a Renault Alliance racecar (he'd worked for Renault in the '80s).

The wheels match the graphic design of the C-pillar, and the graphics in general are fairly '70s. I'm surprised you find it attractive. Whereas Peugeots of that era were done by Pininfarina, and tended to be quite pretty, Renault styling seemed to strive for "weirdly utilitarian."

I think Renaults of the past had a very distinctive style - and this style I find very appealing. It can only be, in my words, be described as Renaultish.

Also, there are quite a few Renault 21's here in Munich. There's one down my street. I think it may have been bland in its day, but now, with car design having changed / evolved, they really stand out. The first time I saw a Renault 21 in recent times (aka about a year ago) it seriously came across as sporty and elegant - to me. Again, the very distinctive Renault stying of its era - something I appreciate.


Oh yeah, no love for the Safrane? 

One of the coolest Renaults of the 1990s.

[CaMIRO]

I know what you mean; I have a thing for the R18, I can appreciate the R21, and I love the Safrane - especially the Biturbo.

Putting aside my personal fondness for Renaults of that era, though, they're all rather tame. Perhaps "bland" is too harsh, but they suffer from a generic look that seems out of place for the marque.

The Safrane's look seemed fresh back when the R25 launched - but by the mid-90s, people wanted more.
> The Renault Safrane

I don't buy the idea that the French can't crack the luxury market. They haven't tried hard enough in an awfully long time; the Citroen C6 is their first serious effort in a while, I'd say.

[cawimmer430]

The Megane, Avantime and Vel Satis are positively delightful. They're so strange and cool, I just go ga-ga over them.

[2o6]

You need to start a thread and post all of these.

[cawimmer430]

I know what you mean; I have a thing for the R18, I can appreciate the R21, and I love the Safrane - especially the Biturbo.

Putting aside my personal fondness for Renaults of that era, though, they're all rather tame. Perhaps "bland" is too harsh, but they suffer from a generic look that seems out of place for the marque.

The Safrane's look seemed fresh back when the R25 launched - but by the mid-90s, people wanted more.
> The Renault Safrane

I don't buy the idea that the French can't crack the luxury market. They haven't tried hard enough in an awfully long time; the Citroen C6 is their first serious effort in a while, I'd say.

Sweet. A Miro Pacic article on the Safrane. Will be reading that ASAP. 


Citroen happens to be my favorite French carmaker, but I cannot come to terms with the design of the C6. No doubt, it is a superb automobile and something for the folks with different tastes (seeking individuality for instance), just not for me.

The car I really am lusting after from them is the new C5. What a transformation the C5 has endured. From the completely boring and stale original to the one we have now - wow. Although it's a mainstreamer, I think the C5 in its highest trim could easily be compared (and compete) with cars like the C-Class, 3er, A4, IS etc. It might not be very sporty but it wouldn't surprise me if it even beats out the C-Class in comfort quality - something Citroen was well known for (and still is). What a car.

From this:



To this:




Applause. 

[cawimmer430]

You need to start a thread and post all of these.

Should I quote that too? 

[CaMIRO]

The car I really am lusting after from them is the new C5. What a transformation the C5 has endured. From the completely boring and stale original to the one we have now - wow. Although it's a mainstreamer, I think the C5 in its highest trim could easily be compared (and compete) with cars like the C-Class, 3er, A4, IS etc. It might not be very sporty but it wouldn't surprise me if it even beats out the C-Class in comfort quality - something Citroen was well known for (and still is). What a car.

I agree with everything you've said,
and I wish them luck with it -
but I'm not its biggest fan. That ad campaign of theirs, suggesting it's a German car; they're not too far off the mark. Something about it is very clinical; more so than I'd expect from Citroen. I'm hoping the DS5 rectifies a few things.

But yes, the old C5 was atrociously bad. I didn't mind the original as much as the facelift; that has to be the worst mid-cycle refresh in history. 

[cawimmer430]

I agree with everything you've said,
and I wish them luck with it -
but I'm not its biggest fan. That ad campaign of theirs, suggesting it's a German car; they're not too far off the mark. Something about it is very clinical; more so than I'd expect from Citroen. I'm hoping the DS5 rectifies a few things.

But yes, the old C5 was atrociously bad. I didn't mind the original as much as the facelift; that has to be the worst mid-cycle refresh in history. 

Speaking of Citroen, have you heard of this? The 2CV might live again...


Citro?n teases a modern 2CV ahead of Frankfurt debut

If the show won't come to France, then France will go to the show. So while it may be Frankfurt's turn to host the alternating European car show this year while Paris sits this one out, that doesn't mean that French automakers haven't got a few tricks up their sleeves. Although we're still waiting to see what Bugatti has got in store for the Frankfurt show, Renault is coming with three new electric vehicles, Peugeot's using the venue to unveil the new 3008 HYBrid, 5008 and 308 RCZ, and Citro?n has got the new C3 and its premium counterpart DS3 to show off. But the chevron-emblazoned PSA auto division has just released a teaser shot of yet another vehicle on the docket for unveiling in Frankfurt, and it could be the most interesting of them all.

Not much in the way of information accompanies the teaser you see above, but reports suggest this could be a new C1 or C2 hatchback. Bearing ties to the original, iconic 2CV that put Citro?n on the map, the new show car isn't expected to form part of any other Citroen project currently under way, so we'll have to wait until the show to find out more. Check out a higher-res version of the image above by clicking on it, as well as the super short press statement available after the jump.












Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/08/citroen-teases-a-modern-2cv-ahead-of-frankfurt-debut/

[Raza]

Since we're back to talking about Renaults, I'll bring up my current favorite:

[Laconian]

Speaking of Citroen, have you heard of this? The 2CV might live again...

MAIS C'EST DE LA MERDE!

[Colin]

What a great thread this is!

For a start, we are in new territory for the Forum, talking about cars that have never been seen here before. And there's lots of new info and insight, which is great.

I love that US-Spec R18i, Miro. The R18 was once a common sight on the roads of the Uk (for the matter, so was the R21), but is now a very rare sighting indeed.

Whilst we are talking about Renault, I was very surprised to come across no fewer than 22 x Renault R16 in Heidelberg on Saturday. Clearly an Owners Club meeting, the cars were all fenced off, and 2 gentlemen with "security" on their "T" shirts were prowling around, to make sure no-one got too close. Sadly, that meant that these pics had to be taken through a wire mesh fence!











Still, wonderful to see so many of what was widely regarded as the car that popularised the hatchback.

[cawimmer430]

Nice pics.  

Now, get a DSLR and a 200mm lens! 

[Sigma Projects]

Iran is a funny place for French cars since for some reason they like to make them. Like the Peugeot RD they made which was simply (and crudely, lol) a 405 converted to RWD (RD standing for Rear Drive). They still make the 206. Their own build/design car, the Samand uses a Peugeot motor. And they are still making the Renault 5 I believe, still to this day, except I think they added a few of their own touches. I believe they build other newer Renault models too. But since I'm not an expert on the Renault 5, let alone any Renault, maybe CaMIRO or Wimmer can point out the differences or the things not available on the French originals.






They call it the Sepand PK in Iran.

[cawimmer430]

Those do indeed look like crudely made Renault 5's. The basic shape is there alright.

Here's an original Renault 5 5-door.

[Sigma Projects]

so I guess they changed up the wheel arches, side skirts and tail lights quite a bit.

[cawimmer430]

so I guess they changed up the wheel arches, side skirts and tail lights quite a bit.

And build quality. 

[ChrisV]

If 145,511 of these shitboxes were imported to America, why are you so confident in guaranteeing that nobody here has ever driven one? I bet ChrisV has owned at least two or three.

Never owned a Yugo, But I've driven a few, including an autocross modded one. Lots of fun with actual Fiat bits swapped in.

[ChrisV]

Speaking of Renaults, I loved our old Renault Alliance sedan. Excessively slow, and wallowed like a traditional big American sedan, but also rode like one, which made it one of the most comfortable long distance and rought road small cars I've ever been in. And surprising amounts of grip considering the lean angles it could generate.

Now I just need to get my old Renault 4CV over here to finish up and get back on the road...

[2o6]

According to wikipedia, the Sepand PK is a Renault 5 mounted on a Kia Pride's chassis.

[CaMIRO]

According to wikipedia, the Sepand PK is a Renault 5 mounted on a Kia Pride's chassis.

Japanese style. Italian build quality. Bavarian affordability. British multiplexing. And an interior finished in choice American woodgrain.
A premium motor car, in the finest Romanian tradition.
With aftersales support so caring and responsive, you'd swear it was German.

Form an orderly queue.

[mzziaz]

Japanese style. Italian build quality. Bavarian affordability. British multiplexing. And an interior finished in choice American woodgrain.
A premium motor car, in the finest Romanian tradition.
With aftersales support so caring and responsive, you'd swear it was German.



Form an orderly queue.

[CaMIRO]

Trailer for a local movie called, "The Belgrade Phantom," on Autoblog. Porsche 911 content.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/25/video-the-belgrade-phantom-trailer/

I've heard bits and pieces of this story, and keep meaning to go see the film; haven't had the chance yet.

[Secret Chimp]

Is it just me, or has Tiff Needell become WAAAAY more hyper as he's gotten older?