12 cylinders on a reasonable budget

[sportyaccordy]

I addressed only the objective criteria of performance (specifically, acceleration, braking, handling), reliability and cost of ownership (none of which were even really contested save by the forum's crotchety curmudgeon or two).

Cougs

I understand the allure of the badge, but objectively speaking I'd think twice about it - your average V6 CamCord of today would be as good or better an all around performer, would be far cheaper to repair and maintain, and be infinitely more reliable.

Fair enough, though the badge is really of minor consideration. If Toyota made a car on the level of something like an S600 it would be a no brainer. In any case Byteme responded with this, and I will bolden the important words as your reading comp seems to have failed you here.

Probably correct but if one is considering a car like those shown here they are undoubtably looking for more of a driving experience than a Camry could ever hope to provide.

Meaning he acknowledges all you said regarding hard #s, reliability, maintenance w/e but still rightfully insists there is more to the driving and ownership experiences of these cars- something you clearly missed in your response

Perhaps the 850CSi w/MT, but the others? They're AT-equipped sedans that on their best days probably couldn't run with a newer V6 Accord or V6 Camry of the same value.

When your purchase can't keep pace with a CamCord, will cost a mint to fix and maintain and be a reliability nightmare, yes, I think such a thing can be.

That you took solace in your V6 DX Accord beating the A4 speaks volumes of your automotive values. Not sure what you were looking to accomplish in this thread, but it doesnt seem that you've succeded

[SVT666]

Never did I ever understand that hard numbers don't mean much as when I bought my SVT Focus.  It kicks ass all over any of the Mustangs I've had in terms of handling and driving experience despite being much slower. 

[GoCougs]

Cougs

Fair enough, though the badge is really of minor consideration. If Toyota made a car on the level of something like an S600 it would be a no brainer. In any case Byteme responded with this, and I will bolden the important words as your reading comp seems to have failed you here.

Meaning he acknowledges all you said regarding hard #s, reliability, maintenance w/e but still rightfully insists there is more to the driving and ownership experiences of these cars- something you clearly missed in your response

Oh, sporty don't carry that torch. If he had said it as a standalone argument or otherwise not used it to jump on the "you're wrong" bandwagon, fine, but he didn't.

That you took solace in your V6 DX Accord beating the A4 speaks volumes of your automotive values. Not sure what you were looking to accomplish in this thread, but it doesnt seem that you've succeded

So, by then extension that my car is above yours in better than yours in most every regard means that I have more "automotive values" than do you? C'mon.

I have succeeded in great measure judging by the (intentional?) diversion, obfuscation and um, enthusiasm - apparently people don't like hearing that has-been luxo barges are outdone in virtually every objective measure by the V6 CamCord of today.

[CaMIRO]

This thread reminds me of that old VW Golf ad...

"This is the man who put a million on black... and it came up red.
This is the man who married a sex kitten... just before she turned into a cat.

This man drives a Golf Honda Accord.
Because everyone needs something they can rely on..."


"Sex kitten"

[Eye of the Tiger]

Oh, sporty don't carry that torch. If he had said it as a standalone argument or otherwise not used it to jump on the "you're wrong" bandwagon, fine, but he didn't.

So, by then extension that my car is above yours in better than yours in most every regard means that I have more "automotive values" than do you? C'mon.

I have succeeded in great measure judging by the (intentional?) diversion, obfuscation and um, enthusiasm - apparently people don't like hearing that has-been luxo barges are outdone in virtually every objective measure by the V6 CamCord of today.

You're doing it again.

[Rupert]

Oh, sporty don't carry that torch. If he had said it as a standalone argument or otherwise not used it to jump on the "you're wrong" bandwagon, fine, but he didn't.

So, by then extension that my car is above yours in better than yours in most every regard means that I have more "automotive values" than do you? C'mon.

I have succeeded in great measure judging by the (intentional?) diversion, obfuscation and um, enthusiasm - apparently people don't like hearing that has-been luxo barges are outdone in virtually every objective measure by the V6 CamCord of today.

Reading comprehension fail. Again.

We don't care if the modern CamCord posts better numbers in any category than the luxury cars we're talking about, because that is not the point of those cars. I think I've said that five times already, and so has everyone else.

But just in case, if the Accord is so good,

THEN WHY WOULD ANYONE DRIVE ANYTHING ELSE?

[CaMIRO]

... apparently people don't like hearing that has-been luxo barges are outdone in virtually every objective measure by the V6 CamCord of today.

I can't say I've ever seen anyone base their car purchase purely on "objective measures" (a meaningless term if ever there was one).

It thus seems wrong to apply the term to automobiles, and it's more wrong still to claim ownership of "objectivity."

[Rupert]

Care to elaborate then, fuckface?

Cougs' original point was misplaced, but valid. That point was that these cars are probably not going to be cheap to drive, and so are less practical than a V6 Accord. That's true, even if it doesn't matter to us. But then his argument changed to OMG CAMC0rd Betterz taHn ALLL AND whatz poiknt of any6thingz elzes!?!?!? And that's where he's a dumbass.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Cougs completely fails to realize that the value of his precious objectivity is a subjective matter, itself, and thus his unwaivering "logic" renders itself illogical. Reality comprehension fail.  

[Rupert]

Cougs completely fails to realize that the value of his precious objectivity is a subjective matter, itself, and thus his unwaivering "logic" renders itself illogical. Reality comprehension fail.  

Oh, snap.

Cougs basically goes by WWARD? What Would Ayn Rand Do? And since her whole worldview was called Objectivism, he thinks that subjective passion, etc. have no place in, uh, anything.

[CaMIRO]

Thing is, "objective measures" and "on paper" are not one and the same; at least, not in the way they've been presented here.

[GoCougs]

Ha, ha. Wow, do you guys do well in getting yourselves worked up over straw men.

And what of that phantom post by Raza? Did Psilos invent, or did Raza run?

[Raza]

Cougs' original point was misplaced, but valid. That point was that these cars are probably not going to be cheap to drive, and so are less practical than a V6 Accord. That's true, even if it doesn't matter to us. But then his argument changed to OMG CAMC0rd Betterz taHn ALLL AND whatz poiknt of any6thingz elzes!?!?!? And that's where he's a dumbass.

[Rupert]

Thing is, "objective measures" and "on paper" are not one and the same; at least, not in the way they've been presented here.

Good point. A Miata has objectively better steering feel than a LeSabre, even though there isn't any metric for measuring it.

[Rupert]

Ha, ha. Wow, do you guys do well in getting yourselves worked up over straw men.

And what of that phantom post by Raza? Did Psilos invent, or did Raza run?

Ha, Raza ran.

[Rupert]

Ha, ha. Wow, do you guys do well in getting yourselves worked up over straw men.

And what of that phantom post by Raza? Did Psilos invent, or did Raza run?

LOL

[Tave]

But then his argument changed to...

His argument never changed. The idea that the CamCord is objectively better in the given categories was offered as support for the idea that they are better choices for someone on a limited budget. Reliability, fuel economy, power, safety, etc... are all reasons to choose a new mainstream over an old exotic when you're worried about cash.

[sportyaccordy]

Oh, sporty don't carry that torch. If he had said it as a standalone argument or otherwise not used it to jump on the "you're wrong" bandwagon, fine, but he didn't.

Cougs, if anyone has anything to say in contrast to what you believe they are jumping on the "you're wrong" bandwagon. Byteme's point did stand alone.

So, by then extension that my car is above yours in better than yours in most every regard means that I have more "automotive values" than do you? C'mon.

"Automotive values" aren't some quantifiable attribute like a b-ball player's shooting ability in a video game. Either you get it or you don't. That you even thought to bring up CamCords in a discussion about V12 luxobarges says to me that you don't get it.

I have succeeded in great measure judging by the (intentional?) diversion, obfuscation and um, enthusiasm - apparently people don't like hearing that has-been luxo barges are outdone in virtually every objective measure by the V6 CamCord of today.

You haven't even succeeded in qualifying what you've been successful at in this thread, other than taking us entirely off topic and souring the mood with your absolute opinions. Congrats

[Rupert]

His argument never changed. The idea that the CamCord is objectively better in the given categories was offered as support for the idea that they are better choices for someone on a limited budget. Reliability, fuel economy, power, safety, etc... are all reasons to choose a new mainstream over an old exotic when you're worried about cash.

Have you read all of his posts? It was hard to pick out the original argument from the first posts, but whatever ground he had to stand on disappeared pretty quick.

I mean, I don't think you'll find much disagreement with that point when it's put like you put it (duh). Cougs condescended, and then obscured everything under a fog of WWARD, etc.

[Tave]

You guys are as responsible as he is for "souring the mood." You could have ignored him. You could have conceded his small point and moved on.

Instead you tried to "win" an "argument."

[Rupert]

You guys are as responsible as he is for "souring the mood." You could have ignored him. You could have conceded his small point and moved on.

Instead you tried to "win" an "argument."

Well, it is the internet...

[Tave]

Have you read all of his posts? It was hard to pick out the original argument from the first posts, but whatever ground he had to stand on disappeared pretty quick.

I mean, I don't think you'll find much disagreement with that point when it's put like that. Cougs condescended, and then obscured everything under a fog of WWARD, etc.

No, he sat back and watched y'all spin your heads in 360 degrees and scream into the wind about nothing.

I restated his point on page 2, and he confirmed. Yet people continued to argue a point he never made.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You guys are as responsible as he is for "souring the mood." You could have ignored him. You could have conceded his small point and moved on.

Instead you tried to "win" an "argument."

Cougs came here with the intent of undermining the enthusiasm of this entire thread. He was the aggressor.

[Rupert]

No, he sat back and watched y'all spin your heads in 360 degrees and scream into the wind about nothing.

I restated his point on page 2, and he confirmed. Yet people continued to argue a point he never made.

We've agreed to the point, but then he kept saying things that are dumb.

[GoCougs]

Ha ha, again. This entire jihad fails as represented IMO by Psilos's masturbatory yet comically unrelated and ad hominem vitriol for things Rand.

Unbelievalbe.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Ha ha, again. This entire jihad fails as represented IMO by Psilos's masturbatory yet comically unrelated and ad hominem vitriol for things Rand.

Unbelievalbe.

You're the one that's masturbating 

[2o6]

Cougs came here with the intent of undermining the enthusiasm of this entire thread. He was the aggressor.

Is that how you broke your toe?

[Rupert]

Ha ha, again. This entire jihad fails as represented IMO by Psilos's masturbatory yet comically unrelated and ad hominem vitriol for things Rand.

Unbelievalbe.

You make it too easy.

[CaMIRO]

You haven't even succeeded in qualifying what you've been successful at in this thread, other than taking us entirely off topic and souring the mood with your absolute opinions.

I think his point is now that this thread should not have gone off topic.

I agree.

[Rupert]

Jag wins.