12 cylinders on a reasonable budget

[S204STi]

This thread does indeed keep getting better - hard to imagine we have only profoundly poor reading comprehension to thank for it.

Your post  needs this pic:

[sportyaccordy]

Holy good hairy gods you guys, relax, especially you ChrisV.

Don't cry for me - I get more than my fix of cool hands-on techno experience from my 9-to-5. Further, this jihad against the Accord is supremely ironic as when we all step back and take a breath we all full know that relative to what people actually own here on the 'Spin own, it's at least in the top 25% in terms of performance, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the top 10%.

The "jihad" against the Accord is not some conspiracy to sully your good name, just a reaction to your assertions that superior straight line performance is the be all end all parameter of the driving experience & overall automotive superiority. Obviously many of us drive slower cars... you're the only person here who is asserting that your car, in all its cookie cutting glory is some automotive Godsend for beating a heavier, less powerful AWD car in an impromptu street race.

I mean never mind comparing it to actual sports sedans, it's not even a fun drive with respect to cars in its class...

"Actually, the Honda Accord keeps pace with the segment's fastest sedans in terms of straight-line acceleration, but when it comes to outright handling prowess, the Passat, Altima and new Mazda 6 have it beat."

"Both at our test facility and in the real world we found the Accord fully adequate at up to seven-tenths driving. Body roll is nicely controlled and the suspension manages to soak up most bumps without feeling overly harsh or too floaty. Push it harder and the tires are the first components to leave the party. The P205/60R Michelin MXV4s simply aren't meant for serious road holding and tended to "wash out" easily on twisty roads. "

Plus it's fast, but not really that fast, having been bested by less powerful V6 sedans almost 10 years older (5sp Nissan Maxima):

"it was doing zero to 60 mph in seven seconds flat."

Not much faster than its contemporaries, or the Audi you "decimated".

Plus you write these cars off without presenting any indication that you have any experience with them. I mean I am sure they won't handle as well as say, a 3 series or A4, but journalists have been more positive about these cars than the Accord for sure:

(Edmunds on the 750iL, winning a comparo against other luxury sedans):

"This is the sports car of the group. More so than any of the others, the BMW lends itself to involving the driver. The ride quality isn't the best, no doubt hampered by the optional 18-inch wheels and tires. Road and wind noise is also higher than in the Lexus or the Mercedes

But the payoff is in sheer grip and confidence. During the canyon part of our test, the BMW was the most fun to drive, and its steering provided the most communication and the best weighting. The BMW also managed to achieve the highest level of lateral grip on our skidpad.

More confidence comes from the huge brakes, the electronically controlled damping and the Dynamic Stability Control. During testing, we noted how the traction and stability control could make an average driver even better. It inhibits a highly skilled driver, but the system is subtle in its actions, especially when compared to the Lexus or Mercedes."

Plus there's something beyond #'s in the experience of driving a luxury car. Something beyond even your goofy notions of an inflated sense of self importance (ironic given your continual reminders of your perceived superiority over others here, as in sig). If that is all lost on you then I feel for you as you are missing out on a big part of the driving experience. If an Accord V6 is the be all end all... ah. That is an "Intrepidation".

[Galaxy]

This is listed for ?16,700...



W12, 2003, 99,700km.

[S204STi]

Another contender for Great Automotive Quotes In History.   

More like contender for people who need to take a massive chill pill.

Any deviation in opinion here is simply intolerable.

[S204STi]

This is listed for ?16,700...



W12, 2003, 99,700km.

Nice car.

The best part it that people wouldn't even have to know that you bought it used.

[Eye of the Tiger]

More like contender for people who need to take a massive chill pill.

Any deviation in opinion here is simply intolerable.

I have some chill pills.

[S204STi]

I have some chill pills.

Like to send me some?

(Actually, I think my wife has some... brb)

[GoCougs]

Your post  needs this pic:

Yeah, I know I have a penchant for rocking the boat a bit but I wasn't intending to do so here - a few completely rewrote the context of my comments and now they find themselves riled up if not offended. Meh - I still like the Internets.

[S204STi]

Yeah, I know I have a penchant for rocking the boat a bit but I wasn't intending to do so here - a few completely rewrote the context of my comments and now they find themselves riled up if not offended. Meh - I still like the Internets.

Well, who cares about them?

If anything it's fun imagining these guys behind their keyboards furiously typing out some response, alternating tabs Wiki to make sure they get their figures right, because that's really important.

I mean, I get the point that sometimes owning an older car is cool and has its perks, but sometimes it's pure masochism.

Some people don't like the value proposition and would rather have a car like the Honda which is competent at least on the same level as any of these cars (yeah yeah, ChrisV would beat you but only in his mind... waiting now for a furious post on that comment as well...) and you won't have to worry about it breaking down on you anytime soon.

I'm somewhere in the middle. 

[GoCougs]

Well, who cares about them?

If anything it's fun imagining these guys behind their keyboards furiously typing out some response, alternating tabs Wiki to make sure they get their figures right, because that's really important.

I mean, I get the point that sometimes owning an older car is cool and has its perks, but sometimes it's pure masochism.

Some people don't like the value proposition and would rather have a car like the Honda which is competent at least on the same level as any of these cars (yeah yeah, ChrisV would beat you but only in his mind... waiting now for a furious post on that comment as well...) and you won't have to worry about it breaking down on you anytime soon.

I'm somewhere in the middle.  

Too true - In hindsight I did hijack the thread a bit as I ran with the presumption that sporty was considering such a purchase (as he has posted a number of "what should I buy" threads in the past). In looking back I don't think he actually quite said it (but IMO I still think he meant it).

The vast majority of major automotive enthusiasts that I know don't own fancy cars; quite the opposite - they do what they do using as a base really mundane rides; BMW, Audi, M-B, Jaguar, et al., are very rare in my experience.

The continued 'Spin assertion that enthusiasm is predicated on the badge of the car shows how very amateurish we are as a group when it comes to being true automotive enthusiasts (I'm an amateur too, but not for that reason).

[Raza]

That Ferrari is worth more than my parents' house.


Tell me Raza, why didn't you buy a used S600, 750, or XJ12 instead of your Jetta?

...because I couldn't afford it...

And no manual.  And I don't like large luxury sedans because they're like driving pudding.  

Something else though; I drove a V6 Accord in 2004 and considered it for purchase.  And we all know how that went.  

Also, isn't that the point?  This car costs significantly more than a V6 Accord, and can't keep up.  It would probably be destroyed around a track too.  Which would you rather own?

[Raza]

Well, who cares about them?

If anything it's fun imagining these guys behind their keyboards furiously typing out some response, alternating tabs Wiki to make sure they get their figures right, because that's really important.

I mean, I get the point that sometimes owning an older car is cool and has its perks, but sometimes it's pure masochism.

Some people don't like the value proposition and would rather have a car like the Honda which is competent at least on the same level as any of these cars (yeah yeah, ChrisV would beat you but only in his mind... waiting now for a furious post on that comment as well...) and you won't have to worry about it breaking down on you anytime soon.

I'm somewhere in the middle. 

That's not exactly what he said, though, was it?

[Galaxy]

And I don't like large luxury sedans because they're like driving pudding. 

The Porsche company agrees.




Yes I know. You don't like the transmission.

[sportyaccordy]

Too true - In hindsight I did hijack the thread a bit as I ran with the presumption that sporty was considering such a purchase (as he has posted a number of "what should I buy" threads in the past). In looking back I don't think he actually quite said it (but IMO I still think he meant it).

The vast majority of major automotive enthusiasts that I know don't own fancy cars; quite the opposite - they do what they do using as a base really mundane rides; BMW, Audi, M-B, Jaguar, et al., are very rare in my experience.

The continued 'Spin assertion that enthusiasm is predicated on the badge of the car shows how very amateurish we are as a group when it comes to being true automotive enthusiasts (I'm an amateur too, but not for that reason).

We all know what happens when you assume. Even in all my automotive irresponsibility and masochism I wouldn't do this to myself. This thread was made more to see just how much car you could get for the price of a used Accord or w/e.

Are they the most pragmatic/cost effective choices as daily drivers? As cars for the track or w/e? Obviously not. But to discount what these cars have to offer at 15-20K or w/e is basically writing them off completely, because if they make no sense now they made 6x less sense new. But this thread isn't about what 'makes sense'.

Plus I find it goofy to write off someone in an older luxury car as a "fake baller". Who's to say they haven't had the car since new? Or that they are someone like ChrisV who has the know how & patience to legitimately take on the ownership of a car like an E38 740? Again it all comes back to making unreasonable, somewhat self-serving assumptions.

[S204STi]

That's not exactly what he said, though, was it?

No, but I believe my statement is within the spirit of what he said.

The art of conciliation is to find points or intent to agree with and emphasize rather than the alternative.

[Byteme]

Well, who cares about them?

If anything it's fun imagining these guys behind their keyboards furiously typing out some response, alternating tabs Wiki to make sure they get their figures right, because that's really important.

I mean, I get the point that sometimes owning an older car is cool and has its perks, but sometimes it's pure masochism.

Some people don't like the value proposition and would rather have a car like the Honda which is competent at least on the same level as any of these cars (yeah yeah, ChrisV would beat you but only in his mind... waiting now for a furious post on that comment as well...) and you won't have to worry about it breaking down on you anytime soon.

I'm somewhere in the middle.  

You at least understand the reasons for owning an older performance car.  It has nothing to do with dollars and sense  It has everything to do with driving someing you want to drive, period.

Pure masochism?  At times, yes.  I've spent time beside the interstate waiting for the tow truck because the fuel pump died or the points fell apart.  It's part of the cost of owning an older car.  You're either willing to accept that or your not, it's a personal choice and it's absolutely insame to attack someone based on their desire to own or not own a classic car.  In a way it's like the love of art or classical music or anything else, you either do or you don't.

Edit:  "sense" wa spelled that way on purpose.. 

Here's one reason to own one, the neat events you can participate in.

[Raza]

The Porsche company agrees.




Yes I know. You don't like the transmission.

I should have said most.  But on a car like that, the transmission makes sense.  It's fine, but it's not for me.

[Raza]

No, but I believe my statement is within the spirit of what he said.

The art of conciliation is to find points or intent to agree with and emphasize rather than the alternative.

Compromise is a sin, never forget that. 

( )

[Rupert]

The continued 'Spin assertion that enthusiasm is predicated on the badge of the car shows how very amateurish we are as a group when it comes to being true automotive enthusiasts (I'm an amateur too, but not for that reason).

That's not what we have said.

This thread does indeed keep getting better - hard to imagine we have only profoundly poor reading comprehension to thank for it.

Clearly, that is the case.

[cawimmer430]

There is no Phaeton W8. The Phaeton uses the Audi V8. The W8 had a short lived career in the Passat. My problem with the V8 Phaeton is that it is relatively noisy compared to the W12 and the V6 TDI. It does not fit the character of the car.

[CaMIRO]

Nine years ago, I had corporate use of a brand new, E38 BMW 740i for about 10,000 miles.

Far from being a behemoth, it was a car that shrank around me, the harder I pushed it, with nary a twitch. I have never driven an Accord that inspired as much confidence as that car did. Nor an Accord that soothed or sounded like that car.

In no way are an E38 and an Accord comparable,
new -v- new,
used -v- new,
or any other which way you want to cut it.

These two products had different development goals, different development costs, and different target markets.

Try driving an E38 740i, hard, down an unknown road, and a road you know well. Now do the same in a 2008 Accord.

Sure, there may be those who do not want to believe there is a difference.
But there indubitably is.
Even for most dense driver; the type who, for the sake of the planet and the safety of everyone else, should really be taking the bus.

Hell, the E23 was a more involving drive than any Accord in the 33 years Honda has been making them. I still can't figure out how this comparison came about.

If the Accord must be compared to a luxury car of any era - try the Acura RL...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Nine years ago, I had corporate use of a brand new, E38 BMW 740i for about 10,000 miles.

Far from being a behemoth, it was a car that shrank around me, the harder I pushed it, with nary a twitch. I have never driven an Accord that inspired as much confidence as that car did. Nor an Accord that soothed or sounded like that car.

In no way are an E38 and an Accord comparable,
new -v- new,
used -v- new,
or any other which way you want to cut it.

These two products had different development goals, different development costs, and different target markets.

Try driving an E38 740i, hard, down an unknown road, and a road you know well. Now do the same in a 2008 Accord.

Sure, there may be those who do not want to believe there is a difference.
But there indubitably is.
Even for most dense driver; the type who, for the sake of the planet and the safety of everyone else, should really be taking the bus.

Hell, the E23 was a more involving drive than any Accord in the 33 years Honda has been making them. I still can't figure out how this comparison came about.

If the Accord must be compared to a luxury car of any era - try the Acura RL...

Even a 1990 Audi V8 Quattro with 260,000 miles is a better drive than a new Accord. Cougs is just Cougs.

[GoCougs]

Sigh - yet more diversion and reading comprehension fail, if a bit more high brow in its attempt.

You guys are absolutely horrific in your Internetry at times.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Sigh - yet more diversion and reading comprehension fail, if a bit more high brow in its attempt.

You guys are absolutely horrific in your Internetry at times.

Have you ever noticed how every one who disagrees with you only does so due to poor reading comprehension? 

[Tave]

Even a 1990 Audi V8 Quattro with 260,000 miles is a better drive than a new Accord.

Ah yes--a car you quickly replaced with a Volvo station wagon and Suzuki Swift after a few short months of ownership fraught with every mechanical issue and expense imaginable: what a great example of purchasing an exotic on a budget.

[Tave]

Also, isn't that the point?  This car costs significantly more than a V6 Accord, and can't keep up.  It would probably be destroyed around a track too.  Which would you rather own?

Not the point at all.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Ah yes--a car you replaced with a Volvo station wagon and Suzuki Swift after a few short months of ownership fraught with every mechanical issue and expense imaginable: what a great example of owning an exotic on a budget.

You don't have to be an asshole about it. There were only a couple of things wrong with that car, and nothing that I couldn't have fixed if I had a goddamn place to work on it. You don't even know the half of it. Asshole.

[cawimmer430]

Why the hell are we comparing the Accord to these V12 cars?

I mean where is the frigging Camry!? Why has it been left out of the equation?  

You people are so biased! 

[GoCougs]

Have you ever noticed how every one who disagrees with you only does so due to poor reading comprehension?  

I addressed only the objective criteria of performance (specifically, acceleration, braking, handling), reliability and cost of ownership (none of which were even really contested save by the forum's crotchety curmudgeon or two).

The "enthusiasts" of the forum embarked a subjective opinion jihad ("steering feel" or "confidence" or "smoothness" or whatever) to tell me I was wrong. This was of course was logical fallacy (i.e., rewriting the objective with the subjective).

Granted, there was then a bit of back and forth that accomplished nothing but I surmise the forum got diverted on this jihad in presuming I was implicitly stating that the V6 CamCord was a "better" car or the "preferred car" or whatever. In short, "poor reading comprehension" by the forum.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I addressed only the objective criteria of performance (specifically, acceleration, braking, handling), reliability and cost of ownership (none of which were even really contested save by the forum's crotchety curmudgeon or two).

The "enthusiasts" of the forum embarked a subjective opinion jihad ("steering feel" or "confidence" or "smoothness" or whatever) to tell me I was wrong. This was of course was logical fallacy (i.e., rewriting the objective with the subjective).

Granted, there was then a bit of back and forth that accomplished nothing but I surmise the forum got diverted on this jihad in presuming I was implicitly stating that the V6 CamCord was a "better" car or the "preferred car" or whatever. In short, "poor reading comprehension" by the forum.

You're doing it again.