Comparison review: Five compact sporty sedans

[ifcar]

In the week it spent with the DC Car Examiner, the sporty SX version of the new 2010 Kia Forte compact sedan simply didn?t come off as very sporty. It?s powerful and reasonably agile, but it didn?t demonstrate the sharp steering of a truly fun-to-drive car, and a touchy throttle combined with an abrupt clutch to make it frustrating to drive, particularly launching it from a stop.

But is there anything else that does better, or does this criticism simply hold the Forte SX to a higher standard than any reasonably priced, reasonably practical, and reasonably fuel-efficient car ought to be?

To get that broader perspective, test drives of similar vehicles were in order: other compact economy sedans that offer more performance than the norm without going overboard on the price...

Continued at link:
http://www.examiner.com/x-1017-DC-Car-Examiner~y2009m9d20-Comparison-review-five-compact-sporty-sedans-Introduction


Per usual, the comparison will come out over the course of a week. If you prefer to see things all at once, check back any time after next Sunday and/or check out the past comparisons linked to from this comparison's page.

[CaMIRO]

I blame Volkswagen for the lurching throttle pedals that have become perverse fashion among mainstream vehicles. I know some (93JC, IIRC) figure GM's were worse, but I can't say I agree. I was absolutely stunned by how bad the Mk IV Golf and Jetta were in this regard; at least, the American versions.

I cannot recall where I read this but, apparently, the idea was to quickly impress the consumer on a brief test drive around the block; "wow...," they'd think, "there's real power here."

Everyone benchmarked the Mk IV cars for interior quality (Chevy with the Cobalt, in particular), but that's where they should have stopped.


EDIT: it's also a pity when a Subaru Impreza is described as "sturdy competence." I agree; but Subaru really lost the plot with that car. Go searching for mainstream appeal, in a segment where someone (Toyota) already owns it, and you'll be the must-have choice for absolutely no one.

[the Teuton]

I hate the touchy brakes in the current Rabbit/Jetta. Driving them in traffic drives me insane.

[CaMIRO]

I hate the touchy brakes in the current Rabbit/Jetta. Driving them in traffic drives me insane.

Ah, yes. Those brakes. I can't remember driving a VW Group car, made in the past decade, with linear brakes...

[the Teuton]

Ah, yes. Those brakes. I can't remember driving a VW Group car, made in the past decade, with linear brakes...

So if it has a touchy throttle (it does) and it has touchy brakes (it does), and VW made the steering a lot lighter than the previous generation (they did), what makes it any better of a driver's car or more Germanic than anything else?

[CaMIRO]

Body control, I suppose. Ride/ handling compromise on the firm side, but more forgiving than you might expect. Good wheel control (jounce/ rebound). And, definitely, better at high speeds than the competition. You feel some of the benefits at 70+ mph on the highway; 100 mph, and it's almost like the small BMW they (sometimes) purport it to be.

Where you'd do 100 mph in the 'States, I have no idea. Then again, people buy SUVs whose capabilities they never use. Not that you would, but you could, etc., ad nauseum.

There's also a solidity about VW Group stuff. Perceived, perhaps, and often related to the stolid design language, inside and out - but it's there.

[ifcar]

In case my constant complaining hasn't made it clear enough, the Forte's issue is on a different level than any other car that's a bit oversensitive. It's the only car I've driven that I would consider truly difficult to drive smoothly. I'm sure there are some older cars (and trucks of any age) that are more of a pain, but certainly no competitor has a problem at this level.

A touchy throttle to give a false sense of power is easy to overcome on an automatic car, but it can be a real problem with a manual. And what's all the more bizarre is that the Forte really does have a strong engine; it doesn't need to pretend.

[CaMIRO]

I haven't seen it pointed out anywhere else, but it's certainly worth noting. That sort of thing would annoy me very, very quickly.

[ifcar]

I haven't seen it pointed out anywhere else, but it's certainly worth noting. That sort of thing would annoy me very, very quickly.

I recall having seen it in an Edmunds review. Otherwise, I would have likely thought my particular test car was broken.

[Tave]

First it was a Hyundai with a strange 3-4 shift, and now we have a Forte that is all but impossible to shift smoothly. I'm starting to sense a pattern.

[ifcar]

First it was a Hyundai with a strange 3-4 shift, and now we have a Forte that is all but impossible to shift smoothly. I'm starting to sense a pattern.

Yet the Hyundai Elantra Touring had an excellent shifter and no clutch or throttle problems; I'd say better than any of the five cars I drove for this comparison.

[ifcar]

Fifth place: Subaru Impreza 2.5i

Subarus have long had the reputation of being unkillable. Their standard all-wheel-drive system powers them through rough weather, their solid construction consistently wins them top safety ratings, and their collection of loyal owners swears by their longevity. They used to also have a reputation for being more fun to drive than the average car, as Subaru sought to fill the ?sporty? niche to appeal to customers far south of the snow belt.

The current version of the company?s entry-level Impreza sedan ? introduced as a 2008 model ? certainly appears to live up to the former. But this car is now utility-only; it has lost its former sportiness without adding the level of refinement it has long needed...

Continued at link:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1017-DC-Car-Examiner~y2009m9d21-Comparison-review-five-compact-sporty-sedans-Fifth-place

[Raza]

EDIT: it's also a pity when a Subaru Impreza is described as "sturdy competence." I agree; but Subaru really lost the plot with that car. Go searching for mainstream appeal, in a segment where someone (Toyota) already owns it, and you'll be the must-have choice for absolutely no one.

I've said it before: I drove the 2008 WRX on Tuesday, and bought my Wolfsburg on Wednesday.  The WRX was such a pile of shit I didn't even bother talking numbers on it.  Horrible steering, horrible throttle, no clutch at all.  The pedals were light as a feather with no feel, so it was impossible to drive the car smoothly.  The steering had the lack of feedback that Camry drivers would admire.  The 2009 is supposed to be better in some regards, but I am hesitant to believe it.

[omicron]

Blasted overly-sensitive pedals!

[Raza]

Ah, yes. Those brakes. I can't remember driving a VW Group car, made in the past decade, with linear brakes...

I must be driving too many luxury cars, then, because neither my Passat nor Jetta have what I would describe as touchy brakes. 

[the Teuton]

I must be driving too many luxury cars, then, because neither my Passat nor Jetta have what I would describe as touchy brakes. 

They're touchy.

[Raza]

So if it has a touchy throttle (it does) and it has touchy brakes (it does), and VW made the steering a lot lighter than the previous generation (they did), what makes it any better of a driver's car or more Germanic than anything else?

I still can't believe you constantly blast VWs and give Subaru (and now Saturn, I assume) a pass.   

[Raza]

They're touchy.

They aren't. 

[S204STi]

Ha, my prediction is correct so far.

[S204STi]

BTW, what is it with so many of you guys being unable to deal with differences in pedal feel?  One guy can't seem to drive stick smoothly and blames it on the car, another bunch of guys get their panties wet over a more aggressive brake pedal.  Just adapt, dang it.

[ifcar]

BTW, what is it with so many of you guys being unable to deal with differences in pedal feel?  One guy can't seem to drive stick smoothly and blames it on the car, another bunch of guys get their panties wet over a more aggressive brake pedal.  Just adapt, dang it.

The Forte is a real problem.

I can't say I recall any issues with the Jetta's brakes, though.

[the Teuton]

I still can't believe you constantly blast VWs and give Subaru (and now Saturn, I assume) a pass.   

The Saturn's brakes are much better than the Impreza's, but the steering feels more numb, and the turning circle in the Saturn is massive.

That being said, drive a Mk. III Jetta. When I think of how a VW should feel, that's about the best way I can describe it. The steering is firm and heavy, the brakes are linear, the suspension is stiff but compliant...I've not driven a Wolfsburg, but the new Jetta is weaksauce by comparison.

[93JC]

I blame Volkswagen for the lurching throttle pedals that have become perverse fashion among mainstream vehicles. I know some (93JC, IIRC) figure GM's were worse, but I can't say I agree.

GMs are bad: Volkswagens are worse.

http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=19238.0

[Raza]

The Saturn's brakes are much better than the Impreza's, but the steering feels more numb, and the turning circle in the Saturn is massive.

That being said, drive a Mk. III Jetta. When I think of how a VW should feel, that's about the best way I can describe it. The steering is firm and heavy, the brakes are linear, the suspension is stiff but compliant...I've not driven a Wolfsburg, but the new Jetta is weaksauce by comparison.

The A3 and A4 cars are considered the worst of the A series cars.  If that's what you think is the best, then please, don't take any jobs with Volkswagen. 

[Raza]

GMs are bad: Volkswagens are worse.

http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=19238.0

Perhaps it's just with NA motors?  Both VWs I have owned have been turbos (but then again, the A4 2.0T I drove had a very jumpy throttle), maybe that had something to do with it?

However, the A4 2.0 Jetta I drove didn't have a jumpy throttle either; but with that engine, how could you tell?

[the Teuton]

The A3 and A4 cars are considered the worst of the A series cars.  If that's what you think is the best, then please, don't take any jobs with Volkswagen. 

I don't care what some journalist thinks is the best. Journalists have agendas. I'm telling you that I've driven a new Jetta, and I've driven an old Jetta. The new car has light, lifeless steering at in-town speeds, touchy brakes, and a jumpy throttle. I have not driven the car with a stick, so I don't know if the throttle is better sorted than the auto's, and I am sure the brakes are easy to get used to if you daily drive it, but I do know that the steering doesn't feel particularly German and the car is overrated.

I'm not saying that what I drive is the pinnacle of driving excellence. But if you can find me a car with electric steering that feels natural, please tell me. The Jetta isn't it. I've driven probably a dozen different cars with electric steering, and none of them feel natural. Hydraulic steering allows for better feedback.

I know what a good synergy between parts in a car feels like. The SRX is one, the C170 Focus can even be considered a good combination of parts, even though the steering could afford to have more assist. But the current crop of Jettas, at least in 2.5 form, aren't as impressive at in-town speeds as many a magazine would have us believe.

[Raza]

Well, I'll trust the majority of journalists over one guy who is biased against Volkswagens to begin with, whose evaluations simply don't jive with the ones I made when I drove the car.  However, it's possible that your issues are indeed transmission related; all the complaints of touchy this or jumpy that have come from people driving A5 automatics; I've never driven a torque converted A5 car. 

But yes, electric steering can work (my complaint is that it is a little light at lower speeds, but that's coming off the Passat which was quite heavy at in town speeds; but overall it's very communicative, which is what matters more).  Drive a 2.0T car.  Again, however, I didn't have these issues when I drove the 2.5SE Jetta, GTI, Eos, or Jetta Wolfsburg.  Brakes and throttle response are more reminiscent of my Porsche (in feel, not effectiveness, of course; Porsches have pretty much the best brakes in the world) than any of the luxury cars I drive on a regular basis.  So, the Porsche is my benchmark for everything; steering, brakes, pedal feel, et al.  And it measures up pretty well against the pinnacle. 

[93JC]

Perhaps it's just with NA motors?  Both VWs I have owned have been turbos (but then again, the A4 2.0T I drove had a very jumpy throttle), maybe that had something to do with it?

I drove the GTI, so it's obviously not just a matter of the engine's aspiration. It's as though Volkswagen worked so hard to eliminate lag when they designed the 2.0T that they just forgot or didn't care about making the throttle response linear.

if you can find me a car with electric steering that feels natural, please tell me.

[TBR]

They aren't.  

Yes they are, but I don't see it has a real problem as it wouldn't take long for an owner to get adjusted to it.

[Raza]

I drove the GTI, so it's obviously not just a matter of the engine's aspiration. It's as though Volkswagen worked so hard to eliminate lag when they designed the 2.0T that they just forgot or didn't care about making the throttle response linear.

Obviously, I disagree.