Ford's Ecoboost V-6

[GoCougs]

C'mon guys - let's brush up on that reading comprehension - the Modular was the dinosaur I was referring too...

Rather than replacing the dinosaur Modular, they amped up an existing V6.

[SVT666]

C'mon guys - let's brush up on that reading comprehension - the Modular was the dinosaur I was referring too...

Your statement is very vague.  I read that as meaning the 3.5L is the dinosaur.  Even still the modular is getting replaced.  One thing at a time dude.

[Nethead]

If you are looking to make a moderate amount of horsepower, to me a small, low pressure turbo motor would make more sense than a high revving naturally aspirated motor or a needlessly complex + heavier larger motor.

I.e., VAG's 2.0T to me makes more sense in 99% of the car they offer than their equally powerful V6, or something like the K20A in the Civic Si. The GTI has the best gas mileage for a ~3000#, 200HP car that I've seen in a while.

My issue is that they are calling it Ecoboost, when it is in no way eco-friendly or economical. But overall, turbocharging does make a lot of sense.

sportyaccordy:  Nope, sportyaccordy, it is both eco-friendly & economical--turbos and gasoline direct injection have been around for decades (at least since World War Two for turbos, and surely not much later for gasoline direct injection--if later at all), but the engine/drivetrain management systems needed a great deal of work to increase power and economy while reducing emissions.  Creating the ability to adjust the entire system constantly is the key to the lower emissions and high fuel economy just as boost is the key to more performance per cc of displacement. No doubt additional refinements will occur regularly, since there are 10,066 parameters that can be adjusted to get the most effective settings for the engine and the drivetrain to meet whatever loads they may encounter.  Read the article below:

ECOBOOST CONTRIBUTES 125 NEW U.S. PATENTS, CONTINUES FORD TRADITION OF PATENT QUALITY

? New EcoBoost? gasoline direct-injection turbocharged engine technology adds 125 patents and patent applications to Ford's 4,618 active and thousands of pending U.S. patents
? Leading patent analyst The Patent Board? ranks Ford above all other automakers for the quality and significance of its technology patents
? EcoBoost patents involve powertrain management and the proprietary methods Ford uses to eliminate turbo lag and create a seamless, powerful driving experience

FORD ECO BOOST FORUM ? Ford's new high-performance, fuel-saving EcoBoost? technology is making waves in the engineering community, with the 3.5-liter version of the engine contributing 125 new patents and patent applications. The additions build on Ford Motor Company's current roster of 4,618 active U.S. patents, with thousands more patent applications pending.

EcoBoost powertrain management innovations make up the bulk of the technology's patents and patent applications. But only those advancements that contribute to cutting-edge engineering make the leap from implementation to invention.

"We focus on getting high-quality patents that have the best breakthrough potential for the company," says Bill Coughlin, president and CEO of Ford Global Technologies, a wholly owned Ford subsidiary responsible for managing Ford's intellectual property worldwide.

The strategy is paying off: A 2008 study by the world's leading patent analyst, The Patent Board? , found Ford outperformed all other automakers in the quality and significance of its technology patents.

"Ford's patented technologies are closer to the cutting edge than its competitors," says Christine Wren, director of business development for The Patent Board, which tracks and analyzes patents across 17 industries globally.

The recently introduced 2010 Ford Fusion and Fusion Hybrid, which is America's most fuel-efficient midsize sedan, have 119 patents to date and more are pending.

Patenting is a global activity at Ford, with experts in the United States, Europe, India and China sharing common processes and reporting through Ford Global Technologies.

Powertrain management key to EcoBoost patents

EcoBoost, which uses turbocharging and direct gasoline injection to boost engine output and reduce emissions without sacrificing fuel economy, marks a major milestone in the Ford strategy to deliver technologically advanced, high-output, smaller-displacement powertrains.

The Ford powertrain management strategy uses hundreds of thousands of lines of computer code and related parameters that are adjusted to optimize the engine and transmission operation. It's these processes that largely make up the EcoBoost patent contribution and make Ford's use of direct injection and turbocharging of its engines like no other automaker in the world.

"The secret to Ford's EcoBoost system isn't just the hardware ? the key is in the Ford control system," said Brett Hinds, Ford Advanced Engine Design and Development manager. "Our engineers have the right 'recipes' to integrate the various systems like engine, transmission and fuel management, resulting in a seamless, exhilarating driving experience."

To extract the level of power and efficiency achieved in an engine like the EcoBoost V-6, a remarkable level of precision is required. One example is the amount of control engineers maintain over the fuel injection system:

? The powertrain management strategy uses 10,066 adjustable parameters
? At idle, each injector releases 10.4 milligrams of fuel per injection; put in household terms, that's 1/25,000 the volume of a can of soda, or 0.2 drops of fuel
? Fuel injection pressure is continuously controlled to between 220 psi and 2150 psi
? Injection timing is adjusted up to 300 times a second.

   

[FoMoJo]

^^good article.

[S204STi]

lol, these articles sure are good at waving the blue-oval flag but seem to ignore the fact that Ford is late to the party, as usual.  I've already pointed out that several automakers have already beat them to market with high-compression, direct injected, turbocharged gasoline engines.  That doesn't mean the engine itself isn't great, because it is, but it's not the first to do any of these things, including the complex engine management and ignition advance systems.  VWAG beat you guys to it by at least 7 years, followed by Mazda and GM.

Just sayin', the ad copy is well written for fanboys but I'd like to see it diluted down to what's actually a significant advance in technology, and I don't see anything here personally that isn't a variation on a formula that VWAG already established.

[93JC]

Hell, Mitsubishi beat everybody, almost 15 years ago. Granted they weren't turbocharged, but they did use all the same sorts of complex algorithms in the engine management system.

[SVT666]

lol, these articles sure are good at waving the blue-oval flag but seem to ignore the fact that Ford is late to the party, as usual.  I've already pointed out that several automakers have already beat them to market with high-compression, direct injected, turbocharged gasoline engines.  That doesn't mean the engine itself isn't great, because it is, but it's not the first to do any of these things, including the complex engine management and ignition advance systems.  VWAG beat you guys to it by at least 7 years, followed by Mazda and GM.

Just sayin', the ad copy is well written for fanboys but I'd like to see it diluted down to what's actually a significant advance in technology, and I don't see anything here personally that isn't a variation on a formula that VWAG already established.

If you want to get right down to it, everything is just a variation of something else when talking about the internal combustion engine, however some companies have just done a better job of putting all those technologies together then others...Ford happens to be the one in this case.  

Who really gives a fuck what they call this engine?  EcoBoost, TwinForce, GreenMissile, ForestSaver, TreeHuggerBoost....I mean who gives a shit?  You guys are acting like it's a crime against humanity that their marketing campaign is focusing on the fuel saving technology of the engine.  I got news for ya; Ford's marketing is the best in the business right now and people are buying into it.  That's what marketing is for, and there's is working.

[S204STi]

Hell, Mitsubishi beat everybody, almost 15 years ago. Granted they weren't turbocharged, but they did use all the same sorts of complex algorithms in the engine management system.

Oh that's right, Mitsubishi and then Isuzu also used DI minus turbos.  I am pretty sure though that the supposedly ground-breaking thing Ford is doing here was done at least 7 years ago by Audi.

[SVT666]

Hell, Mitsubishi beat everybody, almost 15 years ago. Granted they weren't turbocharged, but they did use all the same sorts of complex algorithms in the engine management system.

Then they didn't beat anybody to the direct-injected twin turbocharged mega computer controlled V6 arena...did they?

[S204STi]

If you want to get right down to it, everything is just a variation of something else when talking about the internal combustion engine, however some companies have just done a better job of putting all those technologies together then others...Ford happens to be the one in this case. 

Who really gives a fuck what they call this engine?  EcoBoost, TwinForce, GreenMissile, ForestSaver, TreeHuggerBoost....I mean who gives a shit?  You guys are acting like it's a crime against humanity that there marketing campaign is focusing on the fuel saving technology of the engine.  I got news for ya; Ford's marketing is the best in the business right now and people are buying into it.  That's what marketing is for, and there's is working.

I don't have any beef with the marketing, I am just quibling about the fanboi news copy that Nethead throws up as if it's proof that Ford has just split the fucking atom or something.

[SVT666]

I don't have any beef with the marketing, I am just quibling about the fanboi news copy that Nethead throws up as if it's proof that Ford has just split the fucking atom or something.

That was a side rant on my part.  It wasn't directed at you.

[S204STi]

That was a side rant on my part.  It wasn't directed at you.

No worries!

[93JC]

If Ford issued a press release that the old man himself invented the wheel in 2541 B.C., the Nethead would believe it.

[Nethead]

I guess EcoBoost was all invented years ago, but corporate attorneys for VW, Mistibushi, Isuzu, and GM fucked up the patent paperwork and never got VW, Mistibushi, Isuzu, and GM the royalties they deserve, eh?

Of course that's it!  And having been done decades ago, or even centuries ago, it cannot possibly by done better today with today's tech.  Nope, no way...

I guess the good news here is that none of you are engineers, or all development of better ways to do things woulda stopped way back in World War Two with the first aircraft turbos and way back whenever when the first rudimentary gasoline direct injection system was produced by VW or Mistibushi or Isuzu or GM (or perhaps Daimler-Benz, as 93JC pointed out--far more likely than these four, IMO).  

Come to think of it, if you guys ARE General Motors engineers it would explain a lot  

[Raza]

It sounds like gurgling mouthwash.

The best thing I can think about it is at least it idles smoother and sounds better than the CTS DI. I rather like that car, though.

All DI engines I've heard sound like diesels at idle. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

All DI engines I've heard sound like diesels at idle. 

Injectors make noise. Deal with it, or get a carburetor.

[Raza]

Injectors make noise. Deal with it, or get a carburetor.

I'm not the one with a problem. 

[S204STi]

I guess EcoBoost was all invented years ago, but corporate attorneys for VW, Mistibushi, Isuzu, and GM fucked up the patent paperwork and never got VW, Mistibushi, Isuzu, and GM the royalties they deserve, eh?

More like, these ideas aren't original even remotely because everyone else already thought of it.

Ford's kinda like one of those guys at the party who hears a joke, mulls over it for, oh, an hour, and then suddenly bursts out laughing long after everyone else is talking about something else...

[GoCougs]

lol, these articles sure are good at waving the blue-oval flag but seem to ignore the fact that Ford is late to the party, as usual.  I've already pointed out that several automakers have already beat them to market with high-compression, direct injected, turbocharged gasoline engines.  That doesn't mean the engine itself isn't great, because it is, but it's not the first to do any of these things, including the complex engine management and ignition advance systems.  VWAG beat you guys to it by at least 7 years, followed by Mazda and GM.

Just sayin', the ad copy is well written for fanboys but I'd like to see it diluted down to what's actually a significant advance in technology, and I don't see anything here personally that isn't a variation on a formula that VWAG already established.

Yep - kinda comical in that article reads like no else is dong that. Patents, hundreds of thousands of lines of code, thousands of parameters, et al.? Everyone's been doing that for years and years, including Ford.

The Ecoboost V6, though interesting, is fairly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things; it's simply too costly to matter match - they won't be selling hardly any at all. Call me when they drop it in a $28k Mustang, a $30k Fusion, or $32k Edge. Until than, it's at best a novelty relegated to costly 4,000 lb+ piggy-piggy cars.

[hotrodalex]

All DI engines I've heard sound like diesels at idle. 

the road sounds diesel-ish at idle. Must be a combination of the high-torque tuning and I could also use a new exhaust..

[93JC]

I guess EcoBoost was all invented years ago, but corporate attorneys for VW, Mistibushi, Isuzu, and GM fucked up the patent paperwork and never got VW, Mistibushi, Isuzu, and GM the royalties they deserve, eh?

You can get a patent for a very incremental improvement on an old idea. Ford is trying its hardest to package Ecoboost as a new, revolutionary idea. It isn't. It's a good idea, but an old idea. Yes, they may have made incremental improvements to the idea, but it's not as impressive Ford PR makes it sound.

I guess the good news here is that none of you are engineers

Actually, I am an engineer. Not an automotive engineer specifically, but a mechanical engineer.

or all development of better ways to do things woulda stopped way back in World War Two with the first aircraft turbos and way back whenever when the first rudimentary gasoline direct injection system was produced by VW or Mistibushi or Isuzu or GM.

Daimler-Benz, I think.

[sportyaccordy]

As computers continue to advance so will engine management.

I am really curious to see how this system performs in a 4 banger Fusion.

[Nethead]

Autoblog says that Ford has "gone eco" for November's SEMA show, displaying a "longitudinal" 3.5 EcoBoost V6 that meets all emissions, NVH, and other regulatory measurements--with 400 horsepower and 400 ft lbs of torque.  Meant for RWD and some AWD applications (Trucks? SUVs? Crossovers? Dirt bikes?), some re-arranging of the locations of the twin-turbos vs. the "transverse" EcoBoost V6 locations freed up the breathing sufficiently to allow big gains in combustion efficiency with the standard-issue internal hardware of the 3.5 and a mild performance re-tune.


Carroll Shelby take note!  A Terlingua with this engine would be great--a Terlingua with this engine plus cams/valves/springs suitable for the application, a reflash, and the GT500's Tremec 6060 would be more greater

[TBR]

Don't be too impressed, Audi is getting similar numbers out of a supercharged 3.0 V6 (the one in the S4, evidently it is quite underrated).



Assuming 20% drivetrain loss (remember this car is AWD), that gets you 420HP and 413lb/ft.

[FoMoJo]

Don't be too impressed, Audi is getting similar numbers out of a supercharged 3.0 V6 (the one in the S4, evidently it is quite underrated).



Assuming 20% drivetrain loss (remember this car is AWD), that gets you 420HP and 413lb/ft.

What's their fuel consumption like?

[TBR]

18/27-28

The SHO gets slightly worse gas mileage (17/25), but it also weighs a lot more (and also makes less power).

[S204STi]

OMG pwned!

[SVT666]

Don't be too impressed, Audi is getting similar numbers out of a supercharged 3.0 V6 (the one in the S4, evidently it is quite underrated).

I'm still impressed.  The EcoBoost is apparently underrated as well, but Ford is also putting out several different power levels on this engine, not just one.  The EcoBoost has been shown in a 415 hp version as well, and from what I've been hearing there is even a more powerful version coming.

Assuming 20% drivetrain loss (remember this car is AWD), that gets you 420HP and 413lb/ft.

That is very impressive.  Very very impressive.

[FoMoJo]

18/27-28

The SHO gets slightly worse gas mileage (17/25), but it also weighs a lot more (and also makes less power).

It sounds pretty impressive.

2010 Audi S4

[TBR]

It sounds pretty impressive.

2010 Audi S4

It is. Especially when you consider the fact that it is a smaller, less complex engine.