AE86 successor concept.

[Vinsanity]

I just find it funny that you like to harp on Toyotas being boring nerdmobiles, but when they come out with an interesting-looking sport coupe, you say that it won't work in Europe because buyers would rather have boring nerdmobiles

[cawimmer430]

I just find it funny that you like to harp on Toyotas being boring nerdmobiles, but when they come out with an interesting-looking sport coupe, you say that it won't work in Europe because buyers would rather have boring nerdmobiles

I already stated that this car isn't boring: I just don't like the front.

And trust me, I've lived here long enough to get a feel for the market situation here. There are no successful Japanese compact sports cars here with the exception of the Mazda MX-5 and perhaps the Mazda 3. The sporty stuff offered by Mitsubishi (Lancer Evo), Subaru (Impreza WRX STi), Nissan (350Z/370Z), Honda (Civic Type-R / S2000), Daihatsu (Oh wait, they've got nothing sporty here) and Suzuki (Swift Sport) sell in such small numbers they're not even worth mentioning. Toyota doesn't even have anything sporty in Europe at the moment. This AE86 replacement will most likely have a hard time competing in Europe because the market for small performance hatches here is dominated by the Germans, French and Italians: European brands. And with dominate I mean "dominate": it's a very small market. Most manufacturers just offer these halo versions in order to attract the few customers in this particular market niche and to compete against the other manufacturers but the real bread and butter is a normal Golf or Clio or 500 etc.

Toyota sports cars don't fascinate the majority of people here like they do in the US. There's no real emotional connection to the Supra, Celica, MR2 or AE86 here like there is in the US. You'd have to find some Toyota diehards whom this stuff appeals to but your typical European shopper will most likely not be interested. They're interested in something practical and family-friendly like a Golf, Clio etc. And I've said it before: Toyota's are recognized as reliable and affordable and that's their major selling point: not design, not sport, no fun-to-drive-factor etc.

[hotrodalex]

Do want. Pretty much a modern Supra.

[NomisR]

I already stated that this car isn't boring: I just don't like the front.

And trust me, I've lived here long enough to get a feel for the market situation here. There are no successful Japanese compact sports cars here with the exception of the Mazda MX-5 and perhaps the Mazda 3. The sporty stuff offered by Mitsubishi (Lancer Evo), Subaru (Impreza WRX STi), Nissan (350Z/370Z), Honda (Civic Type-R / S2000), Daihatsu (Oh wait, they've got nothing sporty here) and Suzuki (Swift Sport) sell in such small numbers they're not even worth mentioning. Toyota doesn't even have anything sporty in Europe at the moment. This AE86 replacement will most likely have a hard time competing in Europe because the market for small performance hatches here is dominated by the Germans, French and Italians: European brands. And with dominate I mean "dominate": it's a very small market. Most manufacturers just offer these halo versions in order to attract the few customers in this particular market niche and to compete against the other manufacturers but the real bread and butter is a normal Golf or Clio or 500 etc.

Toyota sports cars don't fascinate the majority of people here like they do in the US. There's no real emotional connection to the Supra, Celica, MR2 or AE86 here like there is in the US. You'd have to find some Toyota diehards whom this stuff appeals to but your typical European shopper will most likely not be interested. They're interested in something practical and family-friendly like a Golf, Clio etc. And I've said it before: Toyota's are recognized as reliable and affordable and that's their major selling point: not design, not sport, no fun-to-drive-factor etc.

Wait, but I thought Europeans knows their cars and wants soul, prestige, and heritage with their cars while Americans only knows about grocery getters and appliances.  But now you're saying Europeans prefers appliances as well??  What gives??

[sportyaccordy]

Wait, but I thought Europeans knows their cars and wants soul, prestige, and heritage with their cars while Americans only knows about grocery getters and appliances.  But now you're saying Europeans prefers appliances as well??  What gives??

Lol

Why would anyone buy a 116i or C180 2 door hatch over this? Prestige?

[2o6]

Lol

Why would anyone buy a 116i or C180 2 door hatch over this? Prestige?

Usable space?

[sportyaccordy]

Usable space?

If u want space, u won't get a RWD car.

[Sigma Projects]

so they're calling the motor C-45?

[CALL_911]

If they do actually produce it, I would buy one in a heartbeat, provided I was in the market....

[r0tor]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/109100722291/subaru-sports-coupe-design-sketches-leaked

Note to Subaru: Don't bother with it and fire all your stylists

[the Teuton]

New Subaru XT?

[cawimmer430]

Wait, but I thought Europeans knows their cars and wants soul, prestige, and heritage with their cars while Americans only knows about grocery getters and appliances.  But now you're saying Europeans prefers appliances as well??  What gives??

This has nothing to do with prestige. European sporty compacts simply dominate the European market - and they're affordable too like their Japanese counterparts. Japanese performance cars have not made an impact here like they have in the US. We view Japanese cars as affordable and reliable cars that get you from A to B but they lack that "fun to drive" image. That's changing though, especially with Mazda and Honda. Toyota on the other hand is viewed as boring. Reliable and great value but boring beyond boring.

[cawimmer430]

Lol

Why would anyone buy a 116i or C180 2 door hatch over this? Prestige?

Define "anyone".

116i's are typically bought by older people who find the 1-Series practical, stylish and representing of most BMW values. Or they're bought by people who see the same values in the car but simply don't care about performance. For European tastes the 116i is a decent performer. It's not going to blow you away but it is not exactly slow either.

The CLC180 Kompressor...yep, a true fail car. Mercedes should have never have released it because it's simply a restyled C-Class Sportcoupe. On the other hand it is simply a "temporary gap filler" until the A- or B-Class Coupes (which might even be RWD [in the case of the B-Class Coupe]) arrive.

[Onslaught]

Other than Porsche, German cars suck. 

[cawimmer430]

Other than Mercedes-Benz, German cars suck. 

[NomisR]

This has nothing to do with prestige. European sporty compacts simply dominate the European market - and they're affordable too like their Japanese counterparts. Japanese performance cars have not made an impact here like they have in the US. We view Japanese cars as affordable and reliable cars that get you from A to B but they lack that "fun to drive" image. That's changing though, especially with Mazda and Honda. Toyota on the other hand is viewed as boring. Reliable and great value but boring beyond boring.

Toyota's always been boring though.  They did have few "exciting" cars in the 80s and 90s, but even then, it's not in the same fashion that the Europeans would prefer. 

I think Japanese cars were more popular in the US than European because Japanese cars are typically cheaper and also more reliable. 

[NomisR]

The CLC180 Kompressor...yep, a true fail car. Mercedes should have never have released it because it's simply a restyled C-Class Sportcoupe. On the other hand it is simply a "temporary gap filler" until the A- or B-Class Coupes (which might even be RWD [in the case of the B-Class Coupe]) arrive.

This is Christian Wimmer posting?  You said Mercedes has a fail car... 

[Tave]

That's changing though, especially with Mazda and Honda. Toyota on the other hand is viewed as boring. Reliable and great value but boring beyond boring.

A fun, affordable AE86 wouldn't help to change Toyota's image like similar models have done for those other companies?

[Rupert]

Looks good; I'd buy one.

[MX793]

Toyota's always been boring though.  They did have few "exciting" cars in the 80s and 90s, but even then, it's not in the same fashion that the Europeans would prefer. 

I think Japanese cars were more popular in the US than European because Japanese cars are typically cheaper and also more reliable. 

IIRC, Japanese cars cost comparatively more in Europe than in America.  Tarrifs?

[NomisR]

IIRC, Japanese cars cost comparatively more in Europe than in America.  Tarrifs?

Yeah, and shipping costs too. 

[Sigma Projects]

isn't both American and Japanese cars that cost considerably more in Europe? Like how a ZR1 cost double in Europe than it does here in the States. I'm sure just about all foreign sports cars in Europe are extremely expensive to their domestic counter parts.

[NomisR]

isn't both American and Japanese cars that cost considerably more in Europe? Like how a ZR1 cost double in Europe than it does here in the States. I'm sure just about all foreign sports cars in Europe are extremely expensive to their domestic counter parts.

Yeah, VAT and Tariffs makes it a lot more expensive. 

US is probably one of the few countries where imported goods isnt' taxed as heavily as other countries.

[MX793]

isn't both American and Japanese cars that cost considerably more in Europe? Like how a ZR1 cost double in Europe than it does here in the States. I'm sure just about all foreign sports cars in Europe are extremely expensive to their domestic counter parts.

All cars cost significantly more in Europe, but IIRC, Japanese cars cost comparatively/relatively more in Europe (when compared to other cars on the market) than they do in the US.

[Sigma Projects]

i see. Still confused at how say a twin turbo Supra with a 6spd didn't catch anyone's interest in Europe in the 90's. Yea it was expensive, but still was an interesting car. Actually in the 90's there were good variety in Toyota for sports cars, the last GT4, turbo midship coupe, or even the levin. I don't think I'd even care about Toyota at all unless they had that 25 years of producing some really nice sports cars. If they were the same as they are now from the late 70's to now, I don't think I'd even know what a Toyota is. Much like I barely know anything about current Chevy/Ford products since the only thing they've had consistently for a long time is the Corvette/Mustang. And I'm mostly a GM fan because of their work truck/vans and the LS motors. Other than that it's hard for me to get interested in the brand anymore especially since they killed off the Kappa twins.

I guess my point is I don't see how Toyota making a sports coupe and selling it in Europe to get some more interest in the brand is a bad idea.

[S204STi]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/109100722291/subaru-sports-coupe-design-sketches-leaked

Note to Subaru: Don't bother with it and fire all your stylists

Pics are down.

[Sigma Projects]

So does that mean they are concepts by Autocar?

[CALL_911]

The more I think about this thing, the more I want it.

It needs to come to production about now.

[the Teuton]

The more I think about this thing, the more I want it.

It needs to come to production about now.

Agreed. AWD STI Subaru version for me, please.

[CALL_911]

Agreed. AWD STI Subaru version for me, please.

I'd love the WRX/WRX STI turbo on it, but you can keep the AWD. I'll take RWD.

I just love the idea of having a boxer+RWD. It excites me.