Wife's new car

[Raza]

the clubman probably doesn't launch itself over expansion joints like the cooper does

And where's the fun in that? 

[Cobra93]

the clubman probably doesn't launch itself over expansion joints like the cooper does

It's a little stiff but I never got any air.

[Cobra93]

I can only imagine it would.  The extra wheelbase would lend it stability, which is the opposite handling. 

Yes, it's got 3" more wheelbase but the term "sluggish handling" never entered my mind.

[Raza]

Yes, it's got 3" more wheelbase but the term "sluggish handling" never entered my mind.

No, I wouldn't describe it that way either.  Compared to most cars, I'm sure it's razor sharp; but I imagine it's duller than a Cooper. 

[r0tor]

plus it doesn't get airborn over expansion joints

[Raza]

plus it doesn't get airborn over expansion joints

But where's the fun in that?

[MrH]

I can only imagine it would.  The extra wheelbase would lend it stability, which is the opposite handling. 

I sincerely hope that's a joke.

[Rich]

I sincerely hope that's a joke.

Nope, it's why midengine cars "handle" the best, they are more unstable than FR cars

Also, same with fighter planes.  The most manueverable ones are aerodynamically unstable

[Eye of the Tiger]

Nope, it's why midengine cars "handle" the best, they are more unstable than FR cars

Also, same with fighter planes.  The most manueverable ones are aerodynamically unstable

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule: Swift is both the most unstable, and worst handling car I have ever driven.

[Raza]

I sincerely hope that's a joke.

Nope, it's why midengine cars "handle" the best, they are more unstable than FR cars

Also, same with fighter planes.  The most manueverable ones are aerodynamically unstable

Clearly there's a trade-off between stability and responsiveness, but instability makes a car more eager to change directions, whereas stability will make it less eager, especially at lower speeds.  And as Rich stated, the same concept is used in aeronautics; I remember reading about how they engineered less stability in the Eurofighter Typhoon to make it more maneuverable.

Of course, at higher speeds, one tends to favor stability over responsiveness (in a car, planes are really out of my knowledge scope), which is why when testing, automobile manufacturers tend to use different tracks to test, but as of late, they've moved to the Nurburgring, which is a good test of both (but, in my amateur opinion, not the best test of outright handling). 

You're an engineer, right? 

[MrH]

Clearly there's a trade-off between stability and responsiveness, but instability makes a car more eager to change directions, whereas stability will make it less eager, especially at lower speeds.  And as Rich stated, the same concept is used in aeronautics; I remember reading about how they engineered less stability in the Eurofighter Typhoon to make it more maneuverable.

Of course, at higher speeds, one tends to favor stability over responsiveness (in a car, planes are really out of my knowledge scope), which is why when testing, automobile manufacturers tend to use different tracks to test, but as of late, they've moved to the Nurburgring, which is a good test of both (but, in my amateur opinion, not the best test of outright handling). 

You're an engineer, right? 

If you're going to boil handling down to the opposite of stability, there's no point in arguing with you.  Handling is a combination of countless different variables.  If they really are as opposite as you claim, Nick's swift is an anomaly, along with an M3.  The Swift handles like shit, and isn't stable either.  An M3 is both stable and handles beautifully.

If what're you saying is true, the shortest wheelbase should be the best handling car out there (a Smart Car maybe), and worst handling car should be the longest wheel base out there (a Ford Flex?).

Handling dynamics is infinitely more complex than you're trying to make it out to be.

[MrH]

Nope, it's why midengine cars "handle" the best, they are more unstable than FR cars

Also, same with fighter planes.  The most manueverable ones are aerodynamically unstable

Midengine cars handle well because of their low polar moment of inertia.  There are mid engine cars that are incredible stable.  In fact, I'd say the Veyron is probably the most stable car out there.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Best handling car on the planet:



So, what were you guys saying about instability?

[Raza]

If you're going to boil handling down to the opposite of stability, there's no point in arguing with you.  Handling is a combination of countless different variables.  If they really are as opposite as you claim, Nick's swift is an anomaly, along with an M3.  The Swift handles like shit, and isn't stable either.  An M3 is both stable and handles beautifully.

If what're you saying is true, the shortest wheelbase should be the best handling car out there (a Smart Car maybe), and worst handling car should be the longest wheel base out there (a Ford Flex?).

Handling dynamics is infinitely more complex than you're trying to make it out to be.

Of course there are exceptions and there are differences with regard to weight and weight distribution, but yes, generally making a car more stable means it's less able to change direction.  Like I explicitly stated, there are tradeoffs between stability and handling.  Excuse me for not listing every fucking variable in handling. 

[the Teuton]

You have the enthusiast versus the engineer here. This debate ought to be interesting.

I'll just say this: there's a reason most of Honda's best cars have short wheelbases and skinny-ass tires.

[Cobra93]

Freshly Zaino'd and minus the fugly front license bracket.





Man, this thing is a blast to drive. 

[Submariner]

Best handling car on the planet:



So, what were you guys saying about instability?

My stability >>>>>> yours

[Rich]

Freshly Zaino'd and minus the fugly front license bracket.





Man, this thing is a blast to drive. 

More fun than the mustang?

[Cobra93]

More fun than the mustang?

Obviously, it doesn't have the acceleration, but it's just so flickable that you don't miss all that torque. And it's averaging 30 mpg.

[Payman]

Freshly Zaino'd and minus the fugly front license bracket.





Man, this thing is a blast to drive. 

Very nice.

[giant_mtb]

Get some tires shine on there to complement that nice wax job!

...unless the glare from the sun is making the tire shine not visible.

[Rich]

http://www.autogeek.net/black-wow-trim-restorer.html

The stuff was developed by a MINI owner specifically for the trim.  I suggest buying a bottle, it'll last a while.

The stuff sold off the shelf is only good for a week or so and about 2 rain showers

Makes a little difference...

[CALL_911]

Awesome car, dude.

I must ask, what made you pick the Clubman over the normal car?

[Cobra93]

Awesome car, dude.

I must ask, what made you pick the Clubman over the normal car?

Rear seat access and legroom is much better in the Clubman.

[Raza]

Looks good!  I didn't think I'd like that color, but I do.

Are those covers on rally lights, or something else completely?

[Cobra93]

Looks good!  I didn't think I'd like that color, but I do.

Are those covers on rally lights, or something else completely?

Mini calls them driving lights. They only run with the high beams.

[eThirteen]

Can I has a Touareg off eBay?

[Cobra93]

Can I has a Touareg off eBay?

You can has anything you want if you has the money.

[MrH]

Of course there are exceptions and there are differences with regard to weight and weight distribution, but yes, generally making a car more stable means it's less able to change direction.  Like I explicitly stated, there are tradeoffs between stability and handling.  Excuse me for not listing every fucking variable in handling. 

Of course, there's some many exceptions, it's not even a rule!

There's a vague correlation between the two.  If you want to try and simplify handling that much, you're fooling yourself.  You can ask Teuton.  I'm reading a book he sent me that's over 500 pages, on just Tires, Suspension, and Handling.

[dazzleman]

Enjoy the new car.  That sure looks better than a Pity Cruiser.