Does driving stickshift really make you a better driver?

[sportyaccordy]

I think it's one of those message board circle jerk arguments. As far as public driving goes, I think the main criterion for being a good driver is making smart, low risk decisions on the road, being courteous and basically not being a threat to yourself, other drivers or property. Driving stick bears very little relation to that... adn IMO, the argument could be made that stickshift drivers, in all their enthusiasm, would be more dangerous than the point A to point B auto driver...

Saw this on another message board... thoughts?

[Submariner]

Stick's are about driving enjoyment, not making someone a better driver.

F1 drivers now use automated gearboxes...from what I see, F1 drivers are the most talented in the world...

[SVT666]

I think it does.  Driving stick makes you more aware of what's going on because you have to pay attention to your revs and shifting gears which makes you pay more attention to your driving.  Maybe I'm full of shit, but that's my honest opinion.

[SVT666]

Stick's are about driving enjoyment, not making someone a better driver.

F1 drivers now use automated gearboxes...from what I see, F1 drivers are the most talented in the world...

WRC drivers are the best in the world.

[Submariner]

WRC drivers are the best in the world.

I don't know, the monstrous speed and reflexes needed to keep one of those cars going seems to take the cake. 

[NomisR]

I don't know, the monstrous speed and reflexes needed to keep one of those cars going seems to take the cake. 

But WRC tracks are in a less controled environment compared to F1.  Of course there's the speed difference.

[NomisR]

As for the question, I'd have to say, no.

Not having to worry about shifting would probably help me even more on my lap times.

[sportyaccordy]

I think it does.  Driving stick makes you more aware of what's going on because you have to pay attention to your revs and shifting gears which makes you pay more attention to your driving.  Maybe I'm full of shit, but that's my honest opinion.

If you've been driving stick long enough you don't need to watch the tach or even make much of a conscious effort to drive normally. At least I don't. If anything it is a distraction; especially if you have an engine with a finicky power band.,

[Laconian]

In the US I think stickshift drivers are better drivers but saying that they are better BECAUSE of stickshifts is a correlation implies causation fallacy.

Automatic transmissions don't mean that a person's going to be a bad driver, but automatic transmissions are mandatory for the kind of distracted-driving multitasking that I hate so much.

[TBR]

No. Nor is it necessarily more enjoyable.

[SVT666]

I don't know, the monstrous speed and reflexes needed to keep one of those cars going seems to take the cake. 

Ha!  WRC cars are running flat out on gravel, snow, dirt, mud, asphalt, and anything else you can throw at them with trees, jumps, rocks, cliffs, spectators, hairpin corners, etc.  Have you ever watched an in-car camera for WRC before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmRlKkCDouE

[MX793]

Depends on how you define "better driver".

Is a "better driver" a safer driver?  If so, the ability to drive a manual has pretty much zero bearing.
Does driving a stick make you more aware of the traffic around you?  Maybe, if you're the kind of driver who tries to flow as much as possible with traffic to avoid having to downshift.  But generally, no.
Does driving a stick make you more aware of your own vehicle?  It certainly requires that you be more aware of what's going on with your car, so I'd say generally yes.
Driving a manual requires more coordination than an automatic, but I'm not sure that's the definition of a better driver.

[MX793]

WRC drivers are the best in the world.

WRC cars are all using paddleshift gearboxes these days as well.

[giant_mtb]

Ha!  WRC cars are running flat out on gravel, snow, dirt, mud, asphalt, and anything else you can throw at them with trees, jumps, rocks, cliffs, spectators, hairpin corners, etc.  Have you ever watched an in-car camera for WRC before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmRlKkCDouE

+ they pretty much don't even know the course they're driving in any given race.

[Colonel Cadillac]

WRC drivers are the best in the world.

It's a toss up. Both require incredible talent so it's pretty hard to make a clear cut decision, "WRC drivers are better" or "F1 drivers are better." They do different things. A WRC driver would definitely have a lot of trouble in F1 and F1 drivers would have as much trouble in WRC.  

[MX793]

+ they pretty much don't even know the course they're driving in any given race.

In WRC, they "walk the course", or otherwise scope it out, and write their own track notes.  They aren't completely oblivious to the course.  IIRC, American rally provides all drivers with the same course notes.  I presume they are allowed to walk/scope-out the course prior to running it.

[Submariner]

Ha!  WRC cars are running flat out on gravel, snow, dirt, mud, asphalt, and anything else you can throw at them with trees, jumps, rocks, cliffs, spectators, hairpin corners, etc.  Have you ever watched an in-car camera for WRC before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmRlKkCDouE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ceX5Wk-zSY

[giant_mtb]

In WRC, they "walk the course", or otherwise scope it out, and write their own track notes.  They aren't completely oblivious to the course.  IIRC, American rally provides all drivers with the same course notes.  I presume they are allowed to walk/scope-out the course prior to running it.

Yeah, they have track notes.  But on race day, do you think they remember the hundreds of turns they went through the day before?  Probably not...they pretty much rely on the navigator's notes.  Which is why I said they "pretty much" don't know the course.

[SVT666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ceX5Wk-zSY

Definitely awesome, but they have nothing on the WRC guys for car control.

[VTEC_Inside]

By itself I would say no.

I would imagine that proportionately speaking there are more competent stick drivers than automatic drivers though.

There are going to be more enthusiasts in the manual transmission group which is likely to sway the result in the manuals favor.

Disclaimer: This assumes modern day North American drivers/vehicles.

[sportyaccordy]

I don't even think being an enthusiast makes one a better driver than a non-enthusiast.

[Tave]

If you've been driving stick long enough you don't need to watch the tach or even make much of a conscious effort to drive normally. At least I don't. If anything it is a distraction;

That doesn't make any sense at all.


You don't even notice it, but it's a distraction?

[ChrisV]

I woudl say that for most people, one more thing to think about while driving will reduce the amount of thinking ability they can expend on being aware of anything outside the car.

If you're good at it, you don't notice doing it very much if at all, so it doesn't affect your ability to pay attention outside one way or the other (and if you are good enough that you don't notice it, then it also doen'a add to your fun one way or the other).

Last postulation: a good driver is good at driving a stick. But being good at driving a stick does not translate into being a good driver.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I woudl say that for most people, one more thing to think about while driving will reduce the amount of thinking ability they can expend on being aware of anything outside the car.

If you're good at it, you don't notice doing it very much if at all, so it doesn't affect your ability to pay attention outside one way or the other (and if you are good enough that you don't notice it, then it also doen'a add to your fun one way or the other).

Last postulation: a good driver is good at driving a stick. But being good at driving a stick does not translate into being a good driver.

Bullshit, asshole, tuna, etc.

[Cookie Monster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ceX5Wk-zSY

While it's impressive, it certainly doesn't seem as impressive as a WRC driver sliding a car sideways on a narrow dirt/muddy trail with a huge cliff on one side and trees and people on the other.

[dazzleman]

I think it's one of those message board circle jerk arguments. As far as public driving goes, I think the main criterion for being a good driver is making smart, low risk decisions on the road, being courteous and basically not being a threat to yourself, other drivers or property. Driving stick bears very little relation to that... adn IMO, the argument could be made that stickshift drivers, in all their enthusiasm, would be more dangerous than the point A to point B auto driver...

Saw this on another message board... thoughts?

I can't say I really agree, sporty.

It's probably true that stick shift drivers are on average a bit more aggressive than the driving population as a whole.  But as a flip to that, I think that people who have taken the trouble to learn to drive stick are generally more interested in driving than the general population, and put more trouble into improving and maintaining their driving skills.  I also think that driving a stick forces the driver to be more engaged in his driving.  One of the bad trends on the roads are cars that do too much for the driver, and allow the driver to focus too much on things other than driving.  An engaged driver is usually a better driver than the person who is 'multitasking' while driving, and stick shifts make those distractions less possible.

[Morris Minor]

What David said. It engages you more with the car.

[ifcar]

Automatic transmissions don't mean that a person's going to be a bad driver, but automatic transmissions are mandatory for the kind of distracted-driving multitasking that I hate so much.

I guess I'll need to post a video of my mother holding a coffee mug in one hand and shifting with the other as her car wanders down the middle of the street. As some others have said, once shifting a manual transmission becomes as automatic as any other process of the car, the only hurdle is needing to physically move the shift lever -- and that's easy enough to overcome, too.

[SVT666]

If you're good at it, you don't notice doing it very much if at all, so it doesn't affect your ability to pay attention outside one way or the other (and if you are good enough that you don't notice it, then it also doen'a add to your fun one way or the other).

Always being in the right gear on a twisty two laner most certainly adds to the fun.  If I have to step on the gas when coming out of a corner and have to wait for the car to downshift one or two gears before I start accelerating, it most certainly takes away from the fun.

[Rupert]

I think it does.  Driving stick makes you more aware of what's going on because you have to pay attention to your revs and shifting gears which makes you pay more attention to your driving.  Maybe I'm full of shit, but that's my honest opinion.

I agree. AFAIK, there's no data to support either side, though, so I'm willing to change my mind.