Does driving stickshift really make you a better driver?

[TBR]

Huh?

Absent some gnarly grades, I don't think I've ever made a habit of shifting an automatic.

Older transmissions are less likely to shift when you want them to on their own.

[Tave]

Older transmissions are less likely to shift when you want them to on their own.

OK, now I'm thoroughly confused.

What are you talking about WRT this statement:

The ones without a manumatic option are the ones that need it the most. Automatic transmissions have come a long way in the past 10 years or so.

[TBR]

OK, now I'm thoroughly confused.

What are you talking about WRT this statement:

Older transmissions are less likely to have a manumatic option and more likely to "need" it.

[Tave]

Need it for what?

[2o6]

Older transmissions are less likely to have a manumatic option and more likely to "need" it.

No.



AT's that aren't programmed like that from the start suck when a "manual" mode is thrown in. They second guess you and are generally slow.

[TBR]

No.



AT's that aren't programmed like that from the start suck when a "manual" mode is thrown in. They second guess you and are generally slow.

No.

[TBR]

Need it for what?

Older transmissions are less likely to shift when you want them to on their own.

[2o6]

No.

Yes.

[TBR]

Yes.

Quit pulling stuff out of your ass.

What you said is false, or at least it is in every AT car I have shifted manually.

[2o6]

Quit pulling stuff out of your ass.

What you said is false, or at least it is in every AT car I have shifted manually.

No, they DO shift automatically even you're in manual mode.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiptronic

[the Teuton]

BMW's Steptronic is terrible when it comes to shifting for you. Even SMG shifts for you.

I thought Audi's Tiptronic was amazingly good at holding gears.

[Tave]

Whatever man. I still don't have a clue what point you were trying to make when you quoted me.

Raza said, "I shift automatics manually."

I asked him, "All of them, or only the ones with manumatic functions?"


I have no idea where your comments fit into that scheme. You're saying that older automatics don't shift very smoothly if you shift them manually.

OK. I agree with that. What is your point? I rarely, if ever, shift an older automatic manually, so the fact that it doesn't shift particularly great is of no concern to me at all.

[TBR]

No, they DO shift automatically even you're in manual mode.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiptronic

I am not talking about Tiptronic. I am talking about transmissions with a traditional PRND32L. If you have it in the 3rd spot it will not shift into 4th.

[TBR]

Whatever man. I still don't have a clue what point you were trying to make when you quoted me.

Raza said, "I shift automatics manually."

I asked him, "All of them, or only the ones with manumatic functions?"


I have no idea where your comments fit into that scheme. You're saying that older automatics don't shift very smoothly if you shift them manually.

OK. I agree with that. What is your point? I rarely, if ever, shift an older automatic manually, so the fact that it doesn't shift particularly great is of no concern to me at all.

I am not talking about how it shifts, I am talking about when it shifts. I find that older transmissions hold gears (too high or too low) far longer than I like. Therefore I normally shift them manually. Newer transmissions are less likely to do this because they are "smarter".

[Colonel Cadillac]

BMW's Steptronic is terrible when it comes to shifting for you. Even SMG shifts for you.

I thought Audi's Tiptronic was amazingly good at holding gears.

I think Audi AT's shift for you, and like 500 RPM early.

[the Teuton]

I think Audi AT's shift for you, and like 500 RPM early.

I thought their manumatic was better than BMW's. Agree?

[Colonel Cadillac]

I thought their manumatic was better than BMW's. Agree?

I'm not so sure, but I don't have enough experience with the BMW auto. Last one I drove was a year and a half ago in a 530xi wagon.

[Rupert]

That's actually never happened to me before... maybe it's because I don't drive every single day so I never really get bored enough to stop paying attention.

It only happens on long drives on fairly empty easy to drive roads (freeways, U.S. 20 through Oregon ).

[Rupert]

I am not talking about how it shifts, I am talking about when it shifts. I find that older transmissions hold gears (too high or too low) far longer than I like. Therefore I normally shift them manually. Newer transmissions are less likely to do this because they are "smarter".

Do you shift them manually all the time, or just when they fuck it up?

[TBR]

It only happens on long drives on fairly empty easy to drive roads (freeways, U.S. 20 through Oregon ).

I30 through Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana...

[TBR]

Do you shift them manually all the time, or just when they fuck it up?

Normally I'll up shift manually and just let it do its thing for downshifts (partly because I am not very familiar with any cars I drive with ATs).

[sportyaccordy]

Nissan/Infiniti's 5 speed auto on the VQs are the best autos I have encountered. They really really hold gears.

[S204STi]

I still manually shift autos when I drive them, though.

Even in autos without a manumatic device?

I regularly drop it down to lower gears in certain situations.  Passengers often wonder WTF I'm doing, but I find I can control speed down hills or even gradual slopes or in town more easily in a gear other than overdrive.

[hotrodalex]

Even in autos without a manumatic device?

My Camaro doesn't have a manumatic device and I still do it.

[saxonyron]

I think Audi AT's shift for you, and like 500 RPM early.

I don't redline my car too often, but when I do hold the Tiptronic, it runs right to redline.  Left in regular "D" mode, it'll shift fairly early.  In "S" for Sport mode, it'll hold the gears nearly to 5,000 rpm with a moderately aggressive foot.  Again, I don't flog my car, but for day to day aggressive driving, the auto tranny in sport mode does a great job.

And to restate my case from before, I really do feel that the act of constantly needing to shift gears does serve to keep you focused since it really is not as automatic or subconsciously done like steering and braking are.  Does that mean you're literally a "better" driver?  More superior to your slushbox peers?  No, but it really would make you a slightly more alert and aware driver. And accidents happen when you're not alert and aware.  Do I have hard data to support my theory?  Of course not.  But I'm guessing you guys don't either so it's my word against yours, so I win.   

[S204STi]

[Rupert]

Normally I'll up shift manually and just let it do its thing for downshifts (partly because I am not very familiar with any cars I drive with ATs).

That's... very odd.

You should only be shifting an automatic without manumatic (older transmissions) when the transmission is in the wrong gear and won't shift, or to engine brake. These things happen going up and down hills, or driving on roads with varying speeds. If you floor the gas from a standstill, the engine should come close to redlining each gear before it shifts. If you're shifting for it in a straight-line acceleration, you're not getting any benefit at all.

Older transmissions often shift up too early while heading up a hill, bogging down. If you push the gas until it shifts down to the proper gear, you will accelerate too much, and it will shift back up when you back off the throttle. In this case, shift the transmission to the right gear until you get to the top. Shifting down while going downhill is the same as with a manual transmission-- engine braking. Often, on a winding, slower road with elevation changes (such as a forest road), you will want to shift down to a gear lower than may be necessary to keep the car/truck from moving up and down gears too much because that's annoying. I also use lower gears when I'm going up or down a sketchy grade in 4WD, but that's sort of not the point.

There is no point in shifting an automatic up, just down.

Also, this is 12345. 

[Colonel Cadillac]

I don't redline my car too often, but when I do hold the Tiptronic, it runs right to redline.  Left in regular "D" mode, it'll shift fairly early.  In "S" for Sport mode, it'll hold the gears nearly to 5,000 rpm with a moderately aggressive foot.  Again, I don't flog my car, but for day to day aggressive driving, the auto tranny in sport mode does a great job.

And to restate my case from before, I really do feel that the act of constantly needing to shift gears does serve to keep you focused since it really is not as automatic or subconsciously done like steering and braking are.  Does that mean you're literally a "better" driver?  More superior to your slushbox peers?  No, but it really would make you a slightly more alert and aware driver. And accidents happen when you're not alert and aware.  Do I have hard data to support my theory?  Of course not.  But I'm guessing you guys don't either so it's my word against yours, so I win.   

I agree that "Sport" mode is quite sufficient. I may have not been clear, but I think the automatic transmissions, when in manual mode, hold the gear up until about 500 RPM short and then upshift.

[saxonyron]

I agree that "Sport" mode is quite sufficient. I may have not been clear, but I think the automatic transmissions, when in manual mode, hold the gear up until about 500 RPM short and then upshift.

Well, I'm leaving my office now, so maybe I'll grit my teeth and try it out.  I'll let you know.  I really avoid redlining it since it really doesn't do the engine any favors, but a redline here or there won't hurt anyone.... right?

[TBR]

That's... very odd.

You should only be shifting an automatic without manumatic (older transmissions) when the transmission is in the wrong gear and won't shift, or to engine brake. These things happen going up and down hills, or driving on roads with varying speeds. If you floor the gas from a standstill, the engine should come close to redlining each gear before it shifts. If you're shifting for it in a straight-line acceleration, you're not getting any benefit at all.

Older transmissions often shift up too early while heading up a hill, bogging down. If you push the gas until it shifts down to the proper gear, you will accelerate too much, and it will shift back up when you back off the throttle. In this case, shift the transmission to the right gear until you get to the top. Shifting down while going downhill is the same as with a manual transmission-- engine braking. Often, on a winding, slower road with elevation changes (such as a forest road), you will want to shift down to a gear lower than may be necessary to keep the car/truck from moving up and down gears too much because that's annoying. I also use lower gears when I'm going up or down a sketchy grade in 4WD, but that's sort of not the point.

There is no point in shifting an automatic up, just down.

Also, this is 12345. 

Like I said, to me it seems like most automatics hold gears for too LONG. I don't want to go up to 4500 before it shifts if I am just driving around town. That's annoying to me.