What retired cars should still be made?

[2o6]

The Atenza is a liftback while the US 6 is a proper sedan.  Yes, it also looks like they extended the back of the US car a bit, but if you look at the difference between the distance between the rear wheels and the rear bumper, it doesn't appear to be that much longer.  If you look at the last generation car, the shape differences were similar.  Personally, I thought the liftback was the best looking of the previous generation, and that appears to be the case with the 2nd generation as well.  I really hope Mazda US offers 3 bodystyles of the 6 again.

There is an Atenza sedan:




and Wagon:



I think the Mazda 6 should be bigger and be called the Mazda 9. Now that I've actually looked at the JDM/EU Mazda 6/Atenza, I don't understand why ours needed to be bigger when the EU/JDM Mazda 6 isn't small.

[TBR]

+1000

The design is damn near 20 years old and it still looks fresh (and fantastic).

[Onslaught]

+1000

The design is damn near 20 years old and it still looks fresh (and fantastic).

I will own one. Don't care what it takes.

[MX793]

+1000

The design is damn near 20 years old and it still looks fresh (and fantastic).

IMO, the early 90s was a real high point in automotive design.  FD RX-7, MkII MR2, S13 240SX, Porsche 968...  All of them still look very good today, almost 20 years later.

[JWC]

I wonder what auto manufacturers do with all that old tooling.

Back in the late seventies, R&T or Autoweek, ran an article about this.   Seems Ford would ship the stamping dies to South America.  In the late seventies, you could buy a brand new "sixties" era Galaxie.

[TBR]

IMO, the early 90s was a real high point in automotive design.  FD RX-7, MkII MR2, S13 240SX, Porsche 968...  All of them still look very good today, almost 20 years later.

The 300ZX too.

[Vinsanity]

IMO, the early 90s was a real high point in automotive design.  FD RX-7, MkII MR2, S13 240SX, Porsche 968...  All of them still look very good today, almost 20 years later.

To be fair, wasn't the 968 basically a refreshed 944, which dated back to the late 70's?

But I agree. I'd add the Lexus SC400 and GS300 to the list. The early 90's was a real coming of age/golden era for Japanese carmakers.

[BimmerM3]

They sell it to part suppliers for replacement parts.

Why would they destroy it?

You can't upgrade most tooling. 

You can modify the machines to make new parts though.

[BimmerM3]

IMO, the early 90s was a real high point in automotive design.  FD RX-7, MkII MR2, S13 240SX, Porsche 968...  All of them still look very good today, almost 20 years later.

Add the E36 and MkIV Supra to that list.

[MrH]

You can modify the machines to make new parts though.

Yeah, but most people refer to tooling as in dies, molds, that kind of stuff.  You can't modify those for another car after they're produced.

[Laconian]

I think calling these cars "retired" is insensitive. Some of the cars can't help it, they were born with a lack of oxygen.

[Rupert]

Hahaha! Nice one.

[S204STi]

I think calling these cars "retired" is insensitive. Some of the cars can't help it, they were born with a lack of oxygen.

lol

[sportyaccordy]

S14 was a turd (there's a reason why they extended the life of the S13 in Japan and continued to sell it through the entire life of the S14).

The S13 hatch had the chassis rigidity of a bamboo rickshaw.

Plus the S14 looked 100000x better. If they had brought it here with the SR20DET I think it would have received much more fanfare.

[r0tor]

My short list would be...

FD RX7
240SX... don't care which
Imprezza 22B

I think they would all sell relatively well in todays market

[Vinsanity]

Plus the S14 looked 100000x better. If they had brought it here with the SR20DET I think it would have received much more fanfare.

I agree, but that probably would have cost close to $30k 1995 dollars. Our weaksauce KA24 S14 already costed close to $25k, IIRC at the time.

[sportyaccordy]

I agree, but that probably would have cost close to $30k 1995 dollars. Our weaksauce KA24 S14 already costed close to $25k, IIRC at the time.

Well the rules don't allow for engine changes, but a new 240 would probably have the more respectable QR25 which at least put down 200HP. A VQ 240 might step on the 350Z/G35's toes.

[BimmerM3]

Yeah, but most people refer to tooling as in dies, molds, that kind of stuff.  You can't modify those for another car after they're produced.

Yes, I know. However tooling is relatively cheap compared to the cost of the actual machines themselves.

I think we're both on the same page here, just arguing different points. I'm pretty sure we've both worked in production engineering before (I know I have).

[MX793]

The S13 hatch had the chassis rigidity of a bamboo rickshaw.

Plus the S14 looked 100000x better. If they had brought it here with the SR20DET I think it would have received much more fanfare.

The S14 was a secretary's car like the V6 Mustang.  The early versions looked like a Camry Coupe and the suspension tuning was soft to cater to a "more mature" audience, both in the US and Japan.  I honestly doubt it was that much stiffer a platform.  The transition between S13 and S14 was like the transition from the '07 WRX to the '08.  Like I said, the more performance oriented S13 remained extremely popular in Japan and continued to sell through the entirety of the S14's lifespan in the Japanese market.  There's a reason for that.

[r0tor]

from my observations rebuilding my friends S13, it is not a stiff chassis be any stretch of the imagination... you can jack up a corner and watch the door gaps change

...i then new why we were putting so much chassis reinforcement members in...

[the Teuton]

from my observations rebuilding my friends S13, it is not a stiff chassis be any stretch of the imagination... you can jack up a corner and watch the door gaps change

My friend's S13 had a hole rusted out of the frame of the car...

Fortunately, I've never seen an E36 M3 do that. Now those things are rigid.

[SVT_Power]

The S14 was a secretary's car like the V6 Mustang.  The early versions looked like a Camry Coupe and the suspension tuning was soft to cater to a "more mature" audience, both in the US and Japan.  I honestly doubt it was that much stiffer a platform.  The transition between S13 and S14 was like the transition from the '07 WRX to the '08.  Like I said, the more performance oriented S13 remained extremely popular in Japan and continued to sell through the entirety of the S14's lifespan in the Japanese market.  There's a reason for that.

Wasn't the S13 a lot cheaper than the S14? Somehow I think that's probably the biggest reason they sold so well while the S14 was around.

[MX793]

Wasn't the S13 a lot cheaper than the S14? Somehow I think that's probably the biggest reason they sold so well while the S14 was around.

The point is, they didn't replace the S13 with the S14, they sold the two generations simultaneously.  The S12 was completely phased out and replaced by the S13.  They didn't sell the two generations side-by-side and I'm sure the S13 was more expensive than the S12.  The S15 completely replaced the S14 and S13 and I'm sure was more expensive than either.  Why did they continue selling the S13 when the next generation came out?  Why didn't they kill it like Nissan, and pretty much every other car company on the planet, normally does with the previous generation when the new one comes out?  The character of the S14 was a departure from what the Silvia traditionally was.  It was softer, less sporty.  They kept the S13 because they knew the Silvia faithful didn't want a softer, more laid back car.  Also of note, when the S14 debuted, sales flopped not just in the US, but every other market in which the Silvia/200SX/240SX was sold (except Japan).

[r0tor]

My friend's S13 had a hole rusted out of the frame of the car...

so did my friends... they are horrible rust buckets... just horrible

[the Teuton]

Here's a picture of a heavy gauge steel piece being makeshift-welded into the frame.

[hotrodalex]

3.0 CSL

Ferrari Testarossa

[SVT32V]

I really like the sylivia but they are rather spindly, my wife had a beautiful red one.

Hard to believe you guys didn't some up with this (although available in kit form).







Or the best American car ever made.

[giant_mtb]

Or the best American car ever made.

+4378043

[Raza]

Can't see the picture.  What is it? 

[giant_mtb]

Ford GT.