New car ponderings.

[MX793]

OK, so I think by this point most folks are aware that I'm shopping for a new car.  To date, I've closely checked out and test driven a few different cars of interest (Camaro, WRX, Genesis Coupe V6, RX-8).  For those interested, I've posted my impressions at the end of the post.  Long story short, the RX-8 is looking like the winner of the bunch right now...

but....

I love the looks of the 2010 Mustang.  Unfortunately Ford has priced the GT out of my range and the V6 is a dud.  I can deal with the straight line performance (it's as quick as the RX), but it doesn't sound very good and it's suspension is tuned for comfort rather than fun-to-drive.  Rumor has it that the 2011 V6 Mustang, due out this spring, will finally get a decent motor, but there's no guarantee they'll fix the car's handling and suspension.  I'm not in any huge hurry to buy a car so I can wait until spring, but if I wait to find out if the updated V6 Stang is finally suited to enthusiasts, I'll miss out on the deal I could get on a leftover 2009 RX-8 Touring.  If it turns out that Ford has "fixed" the V6 Mustang and it's the kind of car I'm looking for, then it all works out.  But if not, I'll have to hope Mazda offers big rebates on leftover 2010 RXs at year's end, or spend more than I really wanted to spend.

So do I gamble and wait on the updated Mustang, or do I head to the Mazda dealer tomorrow?  Thoughts?

And before anyone says it:  I'M NOT INTERESTED IN A USED CAR.

Driving impressions:
Camaro - I didn't even bother to test drive because the visibility was so poor I lost interest.

WRX - Left me lukewarm.  It was fast and felt like it could handle the twisties pretty well, but it didn't give me the impression that I was driving a real performance car.  It felt more like I was driving a fast mainstreamer.  The "sport seats" weren't very supportive, the interior looks like any other Impreza (except the seats, which you can't really see when you're sitting in them) and the exhaust note is underwhelming and overly muted (this thing is well quieter than a BMW at WOT).

Genesis Coupe - Great seats, great exhaust note, respectable thrust from the engine compartment.  However, this has got to be just about the worst and most difficult clutch I've ever used, and I'm including industrial/agricultural equipment in that comparison.  I found it nearly impossible to launch this car from a stop consistantly smoothly.  The clutch is heavy, engages very abruptly and doesn't slip smoothly.  I don't think I drove the car 3 miles and I managed to stall it 3 times and did a newbie-style, over-revved, tire squealing launch once.  Didn't have that problem with any other car I test drove, including the supposedly easy to stall RX-8.  I really don't think that clutch is something I can live with.  Shifter is clunky too.  Pity because I liked everything else about it (except the overprotective dealers who are very stingy with test drives).

RX-8 - I have to say that of the cars I've test driven, I enjoyed this one the most.  It's not quite as fast as I'd like (though it meets the pre-requisite of being well quicker than what I've got) and the fuel economy is well below what I'd want (the fact that it's not very quick AND gets poor fuel economy is a big negative), but I still find myself drawn to it.  Especially because, with rebates, it's the least expensive car I'm looking at.  Good ergos, good visibility, exotic engine, supportive seats, attractive interior, good feature content...  it's a nice package other than the fuel economy and the higher maintenance nature of the Wankel.  Considering I'm now driving far fewer miles than I was a year ago, I don't think the fuel economy will hurt as bad financially as I initially thought.  So at this point, this one is looking like the winner....

[2o6]

......Lancer Ralliart?

[J86]

The Mustang does absolutely nothing for me, and I think the RX-8 is a cool little machine, so I'd just urge you to head down to your local Mazda dealer immediately, if not sooner.

[Raza]

I'd take an RX-8 over the new Mustang period. 

[Cookie Monster]

I'd go with the RX-8. IMO that Wankel engine is so cool.

[MX793]

......Lancer Ralliart?

The lack of a regular manual gearbox is a big killer there.  And to get one with Recaros (which I'd want), I'd breach my price cap.  The fact that it consistantly places behind the WRX in comparos also doesn't bode well, since I wasn't blown away by the WRX.  I may test drive one anyway (if they have any at the local dealer, I think they do) just because I've yet to sample a DSG type box.

[S204STi]

I've always had a thing for the RX-8 but I've lately been turned off by the apparent lack of durability in the engine compartment.  Maybe they have things sorted out but the fact that Mazda has had to jack up the engine warranty to 100k doesn't give me a lot of confidence.  That said, if you're the kind of guy who dumps a car at 100k, it should be fine.  Keep in mind that even with higher fuel costs you're also getting into it for a lot less than the other guys.  You'd have to do the math first to see where the break-even point is of course.  But like you said, if you feel like you're going to regret not waiting for the new Mustang, you could always wait till the last second to pull the trigger and try one of those first.

[NomisR]

Rx-8... if I have a chance again.. i'd probably get another rotary car.. it's just so awesome listening to the whirling noise of the rotary.. it sounds like a space ship at speed.  Maintainence isn't really that high.. just keep a bottle of 5w-20 strapped to your inflate a flat kit in the trunk and you're set. 

[CALL_911]

RX-8, foo'

You don't want no V6 Mustang.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'd try driving another Genesis, try another V6 to see if it is still a problem, and try the 4 cyl to see if the clutch is any different...? I like Gensesisis

[r0tor]

RX-8 > V6 Mustang.... just get the series II

[MrH]

Get the R3 fo sho.

They offered me $6,000 off MSRP just walking in.  You could get one $7,000-$8,000 off MSRP I'd think.

[CALL_911]

Get the R3 fo sho.

They offered me $6,000 off MSRP just walking in.  You could get one $7,000-$8,000 off MSRP I'd think.

If this were an R3 we we're talking about, I would take it in a heartbeat.

[Onslaught]

I'm in the same boat as you. It has come down to the G37S and the RX-8 and I'm probably going for the RX-8 R3. My local Infiniti dealer looks like it's going out of business and as much as I like the G37S, I can't get over the fact that it feels like a heavy pig. You can get 5K off a 2009 RX-8 right now and a few dealers in NC still have the ones I like. But I'm holding off because work is so bad right now. My hope is that by the time the 2010 cars go on sale that things will have picked up. I've got a down payment ready but don't want to pull the trigger yet.

The gas mileage of the 8 sucks ass but other than that I love it. It feels so much lighter and purposed built compared to other cars in it's price range. I'm going to sit in a R3 and see how those seats feel tomorrow at the Charlotte Auto show. I'll want to take it out for a drive soon too because I've been in many normal 8's but never an R3. I want to make sure they don't ride too harsh.

[Eye of the Tiger]

What is an R3

[Onslaught]

What is an R3

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009-mazda-rx-r3/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdwCb5d7ok8

Mazda made an RX-7 R1 and R2 so they call the RX-8 the R3

[MX793]

I'd try driving another Genesis, try another V6 to see if it is still a problem, and try the 4 cyl to see if the clutch is any different...? I like Gensesisis

I'd love to try another one to see if it's consistant.  Unfortunately, they're super rare around here for some reason.  There's very poor Genesis coupe selection in NY.  The one I drove is the only V6 Manual anywhere in Upstate that I can find.  Another dealer that's not too far away has a 4 cylinder manual, but last time I tried to get a test drive there I was told I couldn't drive it unless I commited to purchasing it.  And based on what I've read, the 4 banger isn't an inspiring powerplant.  Power falls off early.  It doesn't make a very good sound.  It apparently also hangs onto revs when you let off the gas (for emissions) so you either have to shift very slowly or put up with jerky shifts.  Having previously driven a car that did that, it's not an endearing trait. 

[MX793]

Get the R3 fo sho.

They offered me $6,000 off MSRP just walking in.  You could get one $7,000-$8,000 off MSRP I'd think.

Dealer doesn't have an R3.  All they have is a Touring.  I don't know how motivated they are to get rid of it.  When I asked them what kind of price they could offer, all I got was "well, it stickers for 29 and change and there's a 5K rebate, so 24 and change."  I'm sure I could get something lower than that, but they weren't immediately dipping below sticker.

[Onslaught]

Dealer doesn't have an R3.  All they have is a Touring.  I don't know how motivated they are to get rid of it.  When I asked them what kind of price they could offer, all I got was "well, it stickers for 29 and change and there's a 5K rebate, so 24 and change."  I'm sure I could get something lower than that, but they weren't immediately dipping below sticker.

Haggle.

[MrH]

Dealer doesn't have an R3.  All they have is a Touring.  I don't know how motivated they are to get rid of it.  When I asked them what kind of price they could offer, all I got was "well, it stickers for 29 and change and there's a 5K rebate, so 24 and change."  I'm sure I could get something lower than that, but they weren't immediately dipping below sticker.

Wow, your area is the worst ever to deal with.  I walked into a Mazda dealer just to check one out, and they immediately said $6k off...to start.  They didn't have any R3's on the lot, but said they'd totally be willing to search other dealers and get one here if I want one, and the same discount would apply.

[NomisR]

Dealer doesn't have an R3.  All they have is a Touring.  I don't know how motivated they are to get rid of it.  When I asked them what kind of price they could offer, all I got was "well, it stickers for 29 and change and there's a 5K rebate, so 24 and change."  I'm sure I could get something lower than that, but they weren't immediately dipping below sticker.

I was able to get my Rx8 for "invoice", whatever was on Edmunds back when it was a new car and the economy was good.. I'm sure you can get that car for that price PLUS the $5000 rebate. 

PROTIP:  Don't let them convince you that getting the factory rebate is a good deal because that's from the factory.. you'll be hit with it with resale anyways, so still haggle.

[SVT666]

I can't imagine Ford not improving the handling on the V6 Mustang when it will have 315 hp.  However, if you don't want to wait, to find out, just get the RX-8.  That's what you want to do anyway.

[Raza]

Gas mileage is the main reason I didn't buy an RX-8; but be advised, I projected a 25,000 mile a year commute for myself back then (which is what I do have right now), so it was a considerable expense. 

[MrH]

Yeah, it's all dependent on how much you drive.  I drive less than 10,000 miles a year.  A few mpg isn't a big deal to me.

[ChrisV]

Definitely RX8 over the V6 Mustang. I liked the looks of the Pony package on the last V6 Mustang, but the new one is just "meh" to me. Love the V8 one, but the RX8 is just a nice all around sport "coupe."

[Raza]

Yeah, it's all dependent on how much you drive.  I drive less than 10,000 miles a year.  A few mpg isn't a big deal to me.

Yup, at that point, the difference is minimal.

I have to say, if I were doing it all again today, I'd consider the RX-8 more strongly.  Another concern was practicality, as the RX-8 has a tiny trunk, but today, that doesn't matter much to me.  I'm not moving in and out of flats using nothing but my trunk to carry cargo.  Next time I move I'll rent a truck or hire a moving company. 

[MrH]

Yup, at that point, the difference is minimal.

I have to say, if I were doing it all again today, I'd consider the RX-8 more strongly.  Another concern was practicality, as the RX-8 has a tiny trunk, but today, that doesn't matter much to me.  I'm not moving in and out of flats using nothing but my trunk to carry cargo.  Next time I move I'll rent a truck or hire a moving company. 

Yeah, agreed.  When I bought my Protege5, I figured I'd be moving people and shit all the time.  When I actually move, I can use my mom's camry, or my Dad's Tacoma.  That's why I'm looking to get rid of the Protege5 soon.  I usually just drive myself.  The couple times a year I need to carry more, I'll borrow a different car.  An Rx-8 or NC Miata seem perfect.

[MX793]

I can't imagine Ford not improving the handling on the V6 Mustang when it will have 315 hp.  However, if you don't want to wait, to find out, just get the RX-8.  That's what you want to do anyway.

I'll admit I've got the car buying bug right now.  I wanted a new car last year, but the offerings then didn't do much for me and with the promise of the new Camaro and Genesis arriving in the near future, I opted to hold off.  Turns out those two didn't live up to expectations.

It's not that I'm necessarily 100% sold on the RX.  It's far from perfect.  The fuel economy to performance ratio is pretty poor.  It burns oil, so you have to be pretty religious about checking the level frequently (admittedly something I'm not particularly good about doing).  The trunk is tiny (which would be OK if the rear seats folded, but they don't).  Earlier models don't have a great history for engine longevity.  Aesthetically, I think it's a little awkward.  But with the discounts, it's a pretty appealing prospect.  Without them, I wouldn't even be considering it.

The thing is, the RX is a known quantity.  I know how it drives.  I know that the price is well within what I've budgeted for a new car.  The 2011 V6 Mustang is largely an unknown.  It might or might not drive better than the 2010.  It might or might not cost significantly more.  For all anybody knows, Ford may decide to drop the manual gearbox option on the V6.  If I wait for the 2011 Mustang to come out, which if it comes out in March then the dealers here probably won't get them until April at the earliest, the '09 RX-8s will likely be gone.  There are no rebates on the 2010 RX and probably won't be the same level of discounts until late next year.  Without the rebates, the RX stops being an option.  If I wait the 6 months for the Mustang and it fails to meet expectations, then I have to wait until next fall for the big discounts on the RX again (if they offer them).  Or hope Hyundai fixes the clutch on the Genesis for next year's model.

[MrH]

I drove a 2009 V6 Mustang, and honestly don't know what anyone sees in that car.  It's soft, boring, and dynamically not that great of a car.

[MX793]

I drove a 2009 V6 Mustang, and honestly don't know what anyone sees in that car.  It's soft, boring, and dynamically not that great of a car.

2010 is more of the same.  But since the V6 Mustang really has had no real direct competition to be measured against up until this year, there was no reason for Ford to up the bar.  Now you have Camaro and Genesis offering a lot more performance for similar money.  My hope is this will prompt Ford to not only upgrade the engine, but upgrade the V6 suspension to GT spec so it can hold its own against the Camaro and Genesis.