Ticket

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Court on the 13th.  Any advice?  I think I'm going to go with "I'm sorry your honor, I knew I was speeding but I didn't think I was going that fast" and ask for leniency.  All they care about is the money, right?

Simple, just show up and present your case.

"Your honor, i'd like to present exhibit A."

Opens briefcase

"This is a 18 year old bottle of scotch......."

Judge: "Case dismissed"

Or if bribery doesn't work threaten his family in front of everyone in the room(so he knows you mean business). Don't worry, nothing bad will happen.

[Raza]

Simple, just show up and present your case.

"Your honor, i'd like to present exhibit A."

Opens briefcase

"This is a 18 year old bottle of scotch......."

Judge: "Case dismissed"

Or if bribery doesn't work threaten his family in front of everyone in the room(so he knows you mean business). Don't worry, nothing bad will happen.

Well, that did work last time.

[Colonel Cadillac]

85 in a 55 (which is bullshit, by the way, I was only doing 80).

He followed me for four miles, and I never saw him.  I don't know how I missed him.  Tired, I guess. 

I think I'm going to contest it, just to see what will happen with points.  Ticket is only $189, so it's not that bad. 

Ouch, I bet he followed you waiting for you to hit 90 or get you at the highest possible infraction.

[dazzleman]

Court on the 13th.  Any advice?  I think I'm going to go with "I'm sorry your honor, I knew I was speeding but I didn't think I was going that fast" and ask for leniency.  All they care about is the money, right?

I don't think you need to be told this, but dress well.  Generally, you are treated better if you show the court some respect and appear to take it seriously (even if you do not).  So many people show up to court dressed like total slobs that the person who dresses decently will stand out in a positive way.  The people you deal with will instinctively treat you better if you give a sense that you're one of them, rather than one of the unwashed masses.

I don't think it's necessary to wear a suit.  Just a nice pair of dress pants, a collared button-down shirt, and some nice shoes.

Other than that, I agree with what you're saying.  I would admit to speeding, but indicate that it wasn't your intention to go that fast.  Make it seem like a mistake and be honest.  Lying won't get you anywhere in this situation.  So few people try the honest approach that it might get you a good result.  Offer to take a defensive driving class.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Even in a worst case, you'll walk out of there a free man, and you'll still have a license.  It's just about how much your wallet gets lightened, and even that won't be much in the grand scheme of things.  Good luck, buddy. 

[Klackamas]

Advice for all here.

My experience - you and 50,000 others will be scheduled at the same time in kangaroo traffic "court".  That's why the officer will show up. Be polite and lose gracefully, but don't put anything in your story that you can't back out of. It's more an administrative hearing from what I've seen. Think over hard what you're going to say.

After losing, refile an appeal with the traffic court to have it heard in superior court, which is the next level up. That's usually free to file, but if you lose, then it's like an extra 50 or 100 on top of the original fine because of court costs. BFD. It pays to take the chance and keep it off your record. Often, the officer just doesn't show up, because he's not going to waste time on just you and most people don't appeal, so it's a numbers game. Plus, what you have to say in superior court is taken much more seriously than kangaroo administrative court.

This route has saved me twice in my life.

[dazzleman]

I think we all need to keep in mind that different states have different procedures, so using a procedure that is specific to one state may not work in another.

[saxonyron]

Good luck Raza!  That's a relatively cheap ticket for the speed, so it's not all that bad in the big picture.  But it would be sweet if you could at least get it knocked down a hundred bucks or so.  You never know what kind of clerk magistrate or judge (or whatever they use in PA) that you'll get.  I like the appeal idea, and I've heard that works in MA at times, but it's a gamble for sure.  If nothing else, it'll delay you having to part with the cash for a little bit longer.

[Raza]

Good luck Raza!  That's a relatively cheap ticket for the speed, so it's not all that bad in the big picture.  But it would be sweet if you could at least get it knocked down a hundred bucks or so.  You never know what kind of clerk magistrate or judge (or whatever they use in PA) that you'll get.  I like the appeal idea, and I've heard that works in MA at times, but it's a gamble for sure.  If nothing else, it'll delay you having to part with the cash for a little bit longer.

I'd gladly pay double to avoid points.

And, of fucking course, the court is in an industrial park, so it's nearly impossible to find reliable directions to it.  Google maps doesn't even know the address.  Hell, Google maps doesn't even know the damn town. 

So I'm hoping I can find the place with Mapquest and a little luck.  From the Mapquest map, it looks to be correct. 

[MaxPower]

One thing I've found is that our DMV finds out about some violations directly from the PDs so people still get suspensions/points even when there is no court action.

[dazzleman]

How can that happen without a conviction, Jeff?

Raza -- good luck in court tomorrow.  Are you taking the whole day off work?  Let us know what happens.

[Raza]

Well, I got what I expected, but not what I wanted.

And not what the trooper recommended.  The copper recommended to the judge that my infraction be reduced from 30 over to 5 over, no points.  However, the man in the robe was not amenable to that suggestion.  10 over, 2 points, small fine reduction, I believe.  See, the judge believes that 20 over should be reduced to 5 over, no points, but more than 20 over, but less than double the speed limit should get reduced to 10 over, 2 points. 

So, in a way, I got the outcome I expected.  But I didn't think the copper would recommend a 5 over (the actual trooper who pulled me over wasn't there, but there was a trooper representing all the State Troopers), and that gave me hope for a clean wipe.  Truth be told, when the rozzer told me what they thought appropriate, I could have kissed the guys. 

Oddly, the judge asked me "What do you do with your life?" and gave a strange, approving nod when I told him. 

So, being polite and honest to the cop actually matters; if I had been an asshole to him, there's no way he would have recommended a 5 over. 

But even more odd...it didn't faze me at all.  My first ticket really messed with my head.  This one?  Nothing.  Nothing's changed.  Yes, I scan the roads more; yes, I rarely go over 80 on roads without clear sight lines.  But am I doing 55 everywhere I go?  No.  Tickets just aren't an effective deterrent to absurdly low speed limits that don't respect traffic conditions. 

And another odd thing; I actually felt a little sympathy for the cops.  Not that much, but a little. 

But you know one thing for damn sure: when I left that courthouse, I was blasting Rage Against the Machine. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Well, I got what I expected, but not what I wanted.

And not what the trooper recommended.  The copper recommended to the judge that my infraction be reduced from 30 over to 5 over, no points.  However, the man in the robe was not amenable to that suggestion.  10 over, 2 points, small fine reduction, I believe.  See, the judge believes that 20 over should be reduced to 5 over, no points, but more than 20 over, but less than double the speed limit should get reduced to 10 over, 2 points. 

So, in a way, I got the outcome I expected.  But I didn't think the copper would recommend a 5 over (the actual trooper who pulled me over wasn't there, but there was a trooper representing all the State Troopers), and that gave me hope for a clean wipe.  Truth be told, when the rozzer told me what they thought appropriate, I could have kissed the guys. 

Oddly, the judge asked me "What do you do with your life?" and gave a strange, approving nod when I told him. 

So, being polite and honest to the cop actually matters; if I had been an asshole to him, there's no way he would have recommended a 5 over. 

But even more odd...it didn't faze me at all.  My first ticket really messed with my head.  This one?  Nothing.  Nothing's changed.  Yes, I scan the roads more; yes, I rarely go over 80 on roads without clear sight lines.  But am I doing 55 everywhere I go?  No.  Tickets just aren't an effective deterrent to absurdly low speed limits that don't respect traffic conditions. 

And another odd thing; I actually felt a little sympathy for the cops.  Not that much, but a little. 

But you know one thing for damn sure: when I left that courthouse, I was blasting Rage Against the Machine. 

So, exactly what do you do with your life, Raza? 

[TurboDan]

"What do you do with your life?"

Asked a local traffic ticket attorney turned rent-a-judge in a municipal courtroom? Sheesh.

[Raza]

"What do you do with your life?"

Asked a local traffic ticket attorney turned rent-a-judge in a municipal courtroom? Sheesh.

He might have just been curious, as I was there dressed for work.  Shirt, tie, sweater, pants, shoes.  He's probably not used to seeing younger people dressed like that.  The town is kind of dumpy. 

[MaxPower]

So, being polite and honest to the cop actually matters; if I had been an asshole to him, there's no way he would have recommended a 5 over. 

Duh.

My advice is to be completely honest, polite, and patient.  When I negotiate with defendants that exhibit those three characteristics they always get better deals.

I cut a guy a really really sweet deal yesterday because he was nice to me, incredibly patient on a crazy busy day, and was honest about the whole situation.  I wouldn't have had any problems proving the case, but I gave the guy a break.  Heck, it's easier to deal with a-holes because you can put the screws to them without feeling any guilt.


Too bad the judge wasn't in agreement with you.  That's a wildcard that is sometimes hard to predict.

[Raza]

Duh.
I cut a guy a really really sweet deal yesterday because he was nice to me, incredibly patient on a crazy busy day, and was honest about the whole situation.  I wouldn't have had any problems proving the case, but I gave the guy a break.  Heck, it's easier to deal with a-holes because you can put the screws to them without feeling any guilt.


Too bad the judge wasn't in agreement with you.  That's a wildcard that is sometimes hard to predict.

I meant when you get pulled over.  If I had been like "What seems to be the problem, officer?" and played dumb, I doubt he would have recommended that. 

[dazzleman]

So, now that that's out of the way, how long before the next ticket, Raza?

[sparkplug]

He probably do the same thing my brother did. Slow down when his insurance goes up. I'm just glad some moron didn't do something stupid like pull out in front him. When you speed you do decrease your time to stop but also people believe you are driving the speed limit initially might be surprised when you rear-end them.

The best advice I can give Raza is this: Wear brown pants.

[Raza]

So, now that that's out of the way, how long before the next ticket, Raza?

I'll wait until you get one, grandpa.

[rohan]

Advice for all here.

My experience - you and 50,000 others will be scheduled at the same time in kangaroo traffic "court".  That's why the officer will show up. Be polite and lose gracefully, but don't put anything in your story that you can't back out of. It's more an administrative hearing from what I've seen. Think over hard what you're going to say.

After losing, refile an appeal with the traffic court to have it heard in superior court, which is the next level up. That's usually free to file, but if you lose, then it's like an extra 50 or 100 on top of the original fine because of court costs. BFD. It pays to take the chance and keep it off your record. Often, the officer just doesn't show up, because he's not going to waste time on just you and most people don't appeal, so it's a numbers game. Plus, what you have to say in superior court is taken much more seriously than kangaroo administrative court.

This route has saved me twice in my life.

This doesn't work in Michigan at least because for the next step- formal hearing- you have to have a lawyer.  You can defend youself but if you do that you might as well just pay the fines and be done with it because you're gonna get bent over the judges desk and serviced by a pro.  Plus in Michigan at least officers who don't show up can be charged with Contempt of Court and have a warrant issued for their arrest - be subject to disciplinary action by their department and loss of pay.  Most cops here at least aren't about to have any of that happen when going to court is usually a minimum of 2 or 3 hours at 1 1/2 time even if it only takes 10 minutes you still get your minimum court appearance pay.  Plus- at least with us anyway- you can collect your witness fee plus mileage from the court but only if you drive your own car there. 

[Raza]

I always thought that "if a cop doesn't show up..." thing was a myth.  I mean, it's part of the job description, I don't think they'd just neglect it completely. 

[rohan]

I wouldn't say it's a myth it just depends on the state- it's laws- how judges feel about it and department policy.    Here it's more than just a slap on the wrist our theory is that if it's important enough to write a ticket it's important enough to show up at court.  A subpeona is a subpeona no matter how "low" the court is and we require people to treat them as such.

[dazzleman]

I'll wait until you get one, grandpa.

At my age, nobody wants to pull me over. 

[dazzleman]

But even more odd...it didn't faze me at all.  My first ticket really messed with my head.  This one?  Nothing.  Nothing's changed.  Yes, I scan the roads more; yes, I rarely go over 80 on roads without clear sight lines.  But am I doing 55 everywhere I go?  No.  Tickets just aren't an effective deterrent to absurdly low speed limits that don't respect traffic conditions. 

This is my exact reaction when I've gotten a ticket.  It just doesn't faze me.  I couldn't care less.  Better to have this reaction than to let it mess with your head.

[The Pirate]

Blew through a 30 mph zone at 46 mph today.  The road is 40 mph, then drops down to 30.  I see cops here fairly regularly, so I'm usually on top of the change.  Just didn't slow down today though.  I saw the cop when it was too late (I'm sure he already had a reading), so I just kept my foot on the gas and maintained speed (if I was pulled over, that way I could possibly have plead ignorance on the speed change, depending).  He didn't move from his spot, guess I wasn't the big fish that day.

[dazzleman]

Blew through a 30 mph zone at 46 mph today.  The road is 40 mph, then drops down to 30.  I see cops here fairly regularly, so I'm usually on top of the change.  Just didn't slow down today though.  I saw the cop when it was too late (I'm sure he already had a reading), so I just kept my foot on the gas and maintained speed (if I was pulled over, that way I could possibly have plead ignorance on the speed change, depending).  He didn't move from his spot, guess I wasn't the big fish that day.

Too bad.  We'd have had a field day if he'd nailed you.  

It could be a number of things.  Some cops don't really want to write tickets, and just sit there taking a break.  Sometimes, the sit cops in places to slow people down rather than to ticket them.  And sometimes, they put a dummy in the cop car (my PD calls the dummy "Safety Man").  I've blown past cops at way above the speed limit many times without getting pulled over.

When I did my ride-along about 7 years ago, the cop I went with told me they hate writing tickets when the weather is bad.  Contrary to what a lot of people think, the typical cop isn't out there just itching for a reason to ticket the first person who comes along.

[The Pirate]

Too bad.  We'd have had a field day if he'd nailed you.  

It could be a number of things.  Some cops don't really want to write tickets, and just sit there taking a break.  Sometimes, the sit cops in places to slow people down rather than to ticket them.  And sometimes, they put a dummy in the cop car (my PD calls the dummy "Safety Man").  I've blown past cops at way above the speed limit many times without getting pulled over.

When I did my ride-along about 7 years ago, the cop I went with told me they hate writing tickets when the weather is bad.  Contrary to what a lot of people think, the typical cop isn't out there just itching for a reason to ticket the first person who comes along.

Oh, I know.  But 16 over is worth the cop's effort, I would think.  It's not something that's going to get tossed out of court.  And as you know, NY needs money (I've been seeing a lot more speed traps lately - doubtful it's a coincidence).

Whatever the reason, I'll take it.  And I'll be damn sure to be going the speed limit next time I'm driving that route.

[dazzleman]

Oh, I know.  But 16 over is worth the cop's effort, I would think.  It's not something that's going to get tossed out of court.  And as you know, NY needs money (I've been seeing a lot more speed traps lately - doubtful it's a coincidence).

Whatever the reason, I'll take it.  And I'll be damn sure to be going the speed limit next time I'm driving that route.

WTF?  You're going to chicken out now?

Call me crazy, but after I've gotten caught, or nearly caught, doing something wrong, that only makes it even MORE fun the next time I do it. 

[omicron]

I wish a thousand speed cameras upon you and your loosely-enforced speed limits. Damn my government's obsession with speed to hell.

[Raza]

Blew through a 30 mph zone at 46 mph today.  The road is 40 mph, then drops down to 30.  I see cops here fairly regularly, so I'm usually on top of the change.  Just didn't slow down today though.  I saw the cop when it was too late (I'm sure he already had a reading), so I just kept my foot on the gas and maintained speed (if I was pulled over, that way I could possibly have plead ignorance on the speed change, depending).  He didn't move from his spot, guess I wasn't the big fish that day.

Dude, there was a cop at every spot today, and a fucking funeral procession; it's like they knew people would be stuck in traffic behind the procession and they want to catch people trying to make up time. 

We live in a sick world where the dead get the right of way over the living.