The Crown Victoria

[TurboDan]

They're useful for special purpose vehicles. For patrol work, I personally don't think so. But I'm just a road dog, not an adminstrator.

I have another one for you. Seaside Heights, NJ PD (of MTV "Jersey Shore" fame) has marked Hyundai Santa Fe patrol units. Saw one today while driving through there.

[rohan]

I know we have some LEO's on this board, but what is the fascination with large cars such as the Expedition and Crown Victoria? I know the Expedition is used for prisoner transport, but the Crown Victoria is neither roomy nor does is it efficient. It really doesn't handle well, is grotesquely heavy, and has the chassis rigidity of a piece of white bread.


Why the apprehension to relatively good cars such as the Taurus and Charger? Surely those are more efficient and handle better.

It's no heavier than the Charger in reality - maybe up to a couple hundred pounds but that's not alot when we're talking 4,000 pounds.  As far tas that handling it's really not bad- not great but not bad.  Charger is hands down superior.   Taurus isn't even out as a police car so it's a non-issue and the Impala just isn't a good car although our captain kept ordering them.  It's sorta like the CVPI- it does the job- not great but not terrible either.   I don't think that we're not willing to give them a chance it's just that nothing does everything right now and we need something that does everything.  The CVPI was the closest if you didn't mind rolling the dice with the whole fire issue.  The ONLY reason ford every took over the market was because Chevy simply vacated it leaving nothing but the Vic.

[rohan]

LE vehicles have to fit a rather strict set of criteria. They have to be:

1. Large enough to hold a LEO in full duty rig for at least 8 hours, all of the associated equipment (computers, radios, emergency lighting, weapons, and a trunk full of specialized equipment big and small), and haul prisoners.
2. Rugged and durable enough to deal with constant driving at street speeds or lower, but be able to accelerate quickly and also maintain relatively high speeds. Also has to be able to possess the durability to do some extreme maneuvers, from turns in unpaved medians and shoulders to things like the PIT.
3. Relatively low maintenance.
4. High reliability.
5. Cheap enough to be purchased in large numbers by the government at lowest bid.

All in all, it's not an easy set of criteria to meet. And, not many car manufacturers are willing to put the time and money into developing a vehicle that meets thos criteria. The Crown Vic is still around because it's long established and is still being manufactured (for now). Chevy dropped out after the Caprice (though they're bringing it back) and Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles and still has to prove its reputation with the Charger.

6. solid and highly predictable road manners
7. fast but not too fast

And Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles?  Really?  I have 2 words for you  Dodge Diplo friggen mat.  LOL

[bing_oh]

And Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles?  Really?  I have 2 words for you  Dodge Diplo friggen mat.  LOL

I think you proved my point! The Diplomat was before my time (thank God), but from what the old timers have told me, it wasn't much of a police car. They usually use four-letter words to describe it.

[ChrisV]

I think you proved my point! The Diplomat was before my time (thank God), but from what the old timers have told me, it wasn't much of a police car. They usually use four-letter words to describe it.

yeah, the Diplomat was primarily cheap, not necesarily good. But in my neck of the woods, it was the earlier Coronet that was the bad-ass Dodge patrol car (and a great car for a kid to pick up cheap as a used patrol car in high school, like my best friend's car...)



These things with the 400s and 440s in them were pretty rapid and damn near indestructible.

[rohan]

I think you proved my point! The Diplomat was before my time (thank God), but from what the old timers have told me, it wasn't much of a police car. They usually use four-letter words to describe it.

Yeah!  we still had some in DPD up until about 98-99.  They were awesome cars to be perfecly frank and they laster forever but when the engine was about to quit for a few hundred miles they'ld suddenly flat out SCREAM!  Then all of a sudden they'ld just go POW and die.  I have alot of fond memories in them - some pretty bad ones as well.

[rohan]

yeah, the Diplomat was primarily cheap, not necesarily good. But in my neck of the woods, it was the earlier Coronet that was the bad-ass Dodge patrol car (and a great car for a kid to pick up cheap as a used patrol car in high school, like my best friend's car...)



These things with the 400s and 440s in them were pretty rapid and damn near indestructible.

We also had some OLD Gran Fury's kicking around Detroit when I first started.  





But nothing and I mean     N  O  T  H  I  N  G     was as bad as the Cutlass police cars we had.  There weren't many by the time I got there but they were just aweful.  So bad in fact I know of a officer who "accidentally" drove his into the Detroit River to get rid of it. 

[Morris Minor]

A friend of mine drives a ex-patrol car CVPI. He bought it from a dealer that specializes in used LE vehicles. He really likes it: handling is reasonable, rugged, very inexpensive to run, quiet, roomy, comfortable.

[Byteme]

We also had some OLD Gran Fury's kicking around Detroit when I first started.  





But nothing and I mean     N  O  T  H  I  N  G     was as bad as the Cutlass police cars we had.  There weren't many by the time I got there but they were just aweful.  So bad in fact I know of a officer who "accidentally" drove his into the Detroit River to get rid of it. 

When I first started driving in Missouri in the lat 60's I worked at a gas station that the highway patrol came to to have oil changed and their cars washed while they ate at the restrauant next door.  I'd service the cars and drive them over to the eatery. Great fun.  Back then the patrol used full sized Pontiac Catalinas, Dodge (?), Ford Galaxies, Mercury (?), Plymouth (?), Buick LeSabres and Oldsmobile Delta 88s.  I don't remember any Chevrolets, Chryslers or Caddys.  Colors varied.  I remember them as big, fast and powerful.

[JWC]

If I ever need to buy a car for myself, meaning I'm forced to stop driving VW's, I'd get a Crown.  Most reliable car I've dealt with...civilian or PI version.

[giant_mtb]

Our Grand Marquis has not been in for any problems whatsoever over the past 5 years that we've had it.  It's damn bulletproof.

[Rupert]

I could rock a CVPI...

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I could rock a CVPI...

In all black with black steelies and light smoke tint. Im up in the air about a push bar.

[Rupert]

No need for a push bar, I hope. But keep the spotlight.

[the Teuton]

As someone who's driven the Grand Marquis and Town Car, I'm not so sure how excited I'd be to DD a Crown Vic.

[The Pirate]

I could rock a CVPI...

Totally.

This car belongs to one of the regulars at the GRM discussion boards, and every time I see a picture of his car, it makes me want a P71 that much more.

[bing_oh]

Totally.

This car belongs to one of the regulars at the GRM discussion boards, and every time I see a picture of his car, it makes me want a P71 that much more.

Sniff! Sniff! I smell wannabe...

[3.0L V6]

If I ever need to buy a car for myself, meaning I'm forced to stop driving VW's, I'd get a Crown.  Most reliable car I've dealt with...civilian or PI version.

They were known for cracking intake manifolds in the late 1990s and early 2000s - at least on the civilian versions.

The CV would be a cool car, but I'd be concerned that it might cause people to drive slower in your presence - someone would see you, think you're a cop and proceed to drive 5 under the limit on a winding 2-lane highway. It would drive you crazy. (at least it would for me)

It's a cool car, but it doesn't have any particular trait that makes me want it badly. It's not especially quick, doesn't handle especially well, and sucks fuel pretty quickly. I'd buy it for the pure retro experience - column shift, rear drive, tank durability.

Now, if we're talking about a Mercury Marauder, or maybe a CV with a swapped '04 SVT Mustang engine (390hp!), then you'd have my interest.

[Byteme]

They were known for cracking intake manifolds in the late 1990s and early 2000s - at least on the civilian versions.

The CV would be a cool car, but I'd be concerned that it might cause people to drive slower in your presence - someone would see you, think you're a cop and proceed to drive 5 under the limit on a winding 2-lane highway. It would drive you crazy. (at least it would for me)

It's a cool car, but it doesn't have any particular trait that makes me want it badly. It's not especially quick, doesn't handle especially well, and sucks fuel pretty quickly. I'd buy it for the pure retro experience - column shift, rear drive, tank durability.

Now, if we're talking about a Mercury Marauder, or maybe a CV with a swapped '04 SVT Mustang engine (390hp!), then you'd have my interest.

What do you get on the police version that wasn't available to the general public? 

[3.0L V6]

What do you get on the police version that wasn't available to the general public? 

I believe that the intake manifolds on the police version were aluminum, while the civilian ones were composites (plastic).

[Byteme]

I believe that the intake manifolds on the police version were aluminum, while the civilian ones were composites (plastic).

That's it? No heavy duty suspension? No heavy duty cooling or alternator or other stuff?

Edit:  Cancel that, I googled it and found what I was looking for.      

[rohan]

They were known for cracking intake manifolds in the late 1990s and early 2000s - at least on the civilian versions.

Never heard of that on any of the patrol cars.  Caprice?  You bet they were notorious for it on the LT-1  we called it the Ltick-1 because it made a real distinct tick once it cracked.

It's a cool car, but it doesn't have any particular trait that makes me want it badly. It's not especially quick, doesn't handle especially well, and sucks fuel pretty quickly. I'd buy it for the pure retro experience - column shift, rear drive, tank durability.

In the hands of a professional the car was actually very capable and fast- fast enough for us to keep up with hopped up stangs and corvettes and lots of other cars because of the training.  People think they can drive because they have fast cars and maybe a couple laps around some track somewhere- but most police officers have far better skills and the ones of us who've had advanced pursuit training can make a regular car sing and a car like the CVPI rule the roads.

[rohan]

What do you get on the police version that wasn't available to the general public? 

ON the CVPI I think this was the list on the last ones we bought here- high capacity radiator with higher capacity overflow- oil cooler and I think higher capacity oil reserve- thicker oil pan- transmission cooler- strike plates underneath the car- heavy duty suspension- faster ratio steering- different gearing- composite driveshaft- different brakes and high performance brake pads designed for police use- steel wheels- V rated tires- higher horsepower engine- true dual stainless steel exhaust- wiring harness for emergency lighting- 200 amp alternator/"generator" which held like 190 amps at idle- fleet key alike- ability to take key out of ignition while engine running- roof reinforcements for light bar mounting- limited slip- black out package- taillight kill- strobe package- vinyl back seat- rubber floor instead of carpeting- wiring harness for 800 mhz radios- slide out tray drawers in the trunk- slide out tray for in-car-video- dual spotlights- console with light switch boxes installed- 8 plug 190 watt strobe pack- Recaro bucket seats- fake trunk release with real one hidden- the ability to turn off all interior/dash lights.  There might be more I'm not sure.

[TurboDan]

The CV would be a cool car, but I'd be concerned that it might cause people to drive slower in your presence - someone would see you, think you're a cop and proceed to drive 5 under the limit on a winding 2-lane highway. It would drive you crazy. (at least it would for me)

On the other hand, perhaps on a multi-lane highway, people would get out of your way.

I also wonder if/when you're exceeding the speed limit on a highway patrolled by troopers if they'd pull over a vehicle that's a dead-ringer for another agency's unmarked or take-home CVPIs. In New Jersey, unmarked police vehicles are not issued municipal/county/state tags, and they blend in perfectly. Oftentimes, agencies will even add bumper stickers or "support our troops" magnetic ribbons to the rear to make the vehicles look a little more civvie-like.

The only discernible difference is that their EZPass transponders are issued by a state agency and are blue in color rather than the usual white. However, I don't believe there's any law against spray-painting an EZPass transponder.

[rohan]

On the other hand, perhaps on a multi-lane highway, people would get out of your way.

I also wonder if/when you're exceeding the speed limit on a highway patrolled by troopers if they'd pull over a vehicle that's a dead-ringer for another agency's unmarked or take-home CVPIs. In New Jersey, unmarked police vehicles are not issued municipal/county/state tags, and they blend in perfectly. Oftentimes, agencies will even add bumper stickers or "support our troops" magnetic ribbons to the rear to make the vehicles look a little more civvie-like.

The only discernible difference is that their EZPass transponders are issued by a state agency and are blue in color rather than the usual white. However, I don't believe there's any law against spray-painting an EZPass transponder.

In Michigan all municiple vehicles have very obvious plates only undercover cars have regular civilian plates.  As for the other thing about troops not pulling over cars that look like PD cars- it would be true for the most part but there are so many wannabes and pretenders out there that most cops will come up behind you even if you think it might be a real unmarked unit just to check it out and if it's civilian it gets grabbed.   Around here we work hard to keep the wannabe's looking in their rearview.

[TurboDan]

In Michigan all municiple vehicles have very obvious plates only undercover cars have regular civilian plates.  As for the other thing about troops not pulling over cars that look like PD cars- it would be true for the most part but there are so many wannabes and pretenders out there that most cops will come up behind you even if you think it might be a real unmarked unit just to check it out and if it's civilian it gets grabbed.   Around here we work hard to keep the wannabe's looking in their rearview.

LOL. What is the usual reaction when they're pulled over? Are they still trying to "play cop" so to speak?

[rohan]

Depends on why they bought the car TBH.  CVPI's go for about $2k at auction here so it's easy cheap reliable transportation for the masses honestly.  Lots and lots of people have them for nothing other than that but there's a few who have less honorable uses for them.  Those are the folks we "harrass" and they stick right out.  They leave the push bars and spots on and add lights that mimick the emergency lights on our cars so they can get through traffic faster.  I got passed by one last night in fact on I-94.  He was more than a little surprised when I lit him up- I paced him for almost a mile at 110. (my car is unmarked) Lucky for him I didn't have a ticket book with me.

[JWC]

Cracked intakes were a problem, but not as widespread as most would think.  The manifolds were updated and the problem was covered under warranty.  The problem stemmed from stress at the bolt where the alternator mounted to the manifold.   As far as I remember, all were composite manifolds, civilian or PI.  Mustangs and T-Birds had the same manifold, same problem.

The most common complaint about the CV that I heard from LEO's was a tendency for the tail to lift at high speed.  The fix was to install a plate under the rear of the car, from the fuel tank to the lower edge of the rear bumper.  The rear plastic bumper acted like a parachute at high speed.

I didn't intend for my remarks previous to be taken as the CV was trouble free, just the most reliable vehicle I've worked with.  There are also a lot of performance parts available for that engine and can speed things up some.

[rohan]

Intake manifold or exhaust?  I think (but I'm probably wrong) all the cvpi's were stainless steel tubular header type exhaust manifolds.  ??  At least the newer ones of the last few years anyway.  I've never heard of a exhaust manifold on a cvpi crack-not saying it never happened but I've never heard of it-  like I said before the LT-1 was guaranteed to crack and we called it the LTick-1.  As far as it lifting up at high speed and fixing it with something like that?  Never heard of it- it's just a trait of the car but it got better in the latter years.

[JWC]

Intake manifold or exhaust?  I think (but I'm probably wrong) all the cvpi's were stainless steel tubular header type exhaust manifolds.  ??  At least the newer ones of the last few years anyway.  I've never heard of a exhaust manifold on a cvpi crack-not saying it never happened but I've never heard of it-  like I said before the LT-1 was guaranteed to crack and we called it the LTick-1.  As far as it lifting up at high speed and fixing it with something like that?  Never heard of it- it's just a trait of the car but it got better in the latter years.

The intakes cracked.

The rear lift problem was solved by a company out of Georgia who sold kits to repair the lift problem.   I don't think they are available now.  To clarify, I never actually  heard a city cop complain, it was always state troopers; from NC, SC, GA, and Alabama.  Everyone of them told me that it was the only reason the preferred the Caprice over the CV.  The Caprice held the road better at high speeds, where the CV had a tendency to get squirmy.