E-mail I sent to Alan Mulally

[dazzleman]

I don't see it in black and white either.  I don't think it's in our interests to freeze out the Chinese.  They have become less totalitarian as they have developed economically and I would expect that trend to continue.

But I do think that the pattern wherein the Chinese lend us the money necessary to overconsume relative to our own production is an unhealthy trend that will lead to disaster, however gratifying it has been for both parties in the short run.

[2o6]

I'm not one for political debates, but china has over 1 billion people in an area that is roughly the same size as the US. Obviously, when China gets fully developed, it should have some sort of large pull economically.

[Raza]

Me as European does not see the matter in black-and-white as you guys do.

It's not black and white.  There's also gray.

England & Canada: White
Switzerland: Gray
China: Black

[Submariner]

LOL at RAZA being drunk again. Submariner is just being himself, while Madman as the name suggests ...

Yeah, you're right.  China doesn't have imperialistic desires, and we are most certainly not helping them come to fruition. 

[AltinD]

So basically is: If I can't have it (anymore), nobody else should ...

[2o6]

So basically is: If I can't have it (anymore), nobody else should ...

Yes. They should have killed the factory workers and nuked Sweden so that way none of this will ever happen again.

[Submariner]

So basically is: If I can't have it (anymore), nobody else should ...

No: if we can have it (which we can, but not with our global warming, health-car nationalizing president) we should do what we can to do it.  Shipping manufacturing and technology over to a nation run by tyrannical thugs isn't good for anyone.

People love to rag on America for our civil rights infringements; but China is still a nation who actively censors the internet...please.

[omicron]

No problems here. If China takes over y'all with Volvo-chen and fireworks, they'll need Australian mineral resources to do it! Boom-time!

[the Teuton]

BAIC bought two perfectly good Saab platforms with tooling for $200 million. That's downright cheap.

[GoCougs]

Just to dispel some myths.

The Chinese won't ever be "on top" on anything remotely close to their current course save for a collapse of the US. Militarily they haven't the knowledge or skills to develop a competing military. Economically they are far too dependent on the consumerist lifestyles of the West and (duh) THEY'RE PINKO COMMIES.

We aren't "selling" our souls to the Chinese - Japan owns almost as much US public debt as China (each about 9%) and all foreign debt holders only amount to about 25%. The single larges US public debt holder is , surprise, the US federal government (a bit over 50%).

[dazzleman]

Just to dispel some myths.

The Chinese won't ever be "on top" on anything remotely close to their current course save for a collapse of the US. Militarily they haven't the knowledge or skills to develop a competing military. Economically they are far too dependent on the consumerist lifestyles of the West and (duh) THEY'RE PINKO COMMIES.

We aren't "selling" our souls to the Chinese - Japan owns almost as much US public debt as China (each about 9%) and all foreign debt holders only amount to about 25%. The single larges US public debt holder is , surprise, the US federal government (a bit over 50%).

You're talking about accumulated debt, but the bigger issue is new debt.  We're dependent on issuing large amounts of new debt, and the Chinese have a much bigger share of that than accumulated debt.

And the debt held by the federal government is to make promised social security payments.  It will have to be redeemed and sold to somebody else in the coming years.  Any ideas about who will buy it?

I agree that there are major limitations to the Chinese progressing beyond a certain point, but we seem to be doing all in our power to help them overtake us.

[Madman]

Nixon had some good insight on that very issue when he began lifting trade restrictions and pursuing a relationship with China during his first term.  I don't have the quote handy, sorry, but he had a clear sense that China was a rising power and that we wanted to be on their side.

It was Nixon who got us into this mess with China in the first place.  By visiting Mao and opening China, he awoke a sleeping giant who may one day crush us.  We would have been much better off isolating Communist China in much the same manner as the Soviet Union, forcing the country and it's corrupt government to collapse from within.  Instead, Nixon sowed the seeds of our own destruction and Ronald Reagan made matters worse by pursuing economic policies which encouraged American companies to export manufacturing jobs to China.

In thirty years time, when America is a third world shithole, you can thank Nixon and Reagan for making it happen!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[GoCougs]

You're talking about accumulated debt, but the bigger issue is new debt.  We're dependent on issuing large amounts of new debt, and the Chinese have a much bigger share of that than accumulated debt.

And the debt held by the federal government is to make promised social security payments.  It will have to be redeemed and sold to somebody else in the coming years.  Any ideas about who will buy it?

I agree that there are major limitations to the Chinese progressing beyond a certain point, but we seem to be doing all in our power to help them overtake us.

China is still only buying about 35% of new US debt these days IIRC. More than its 9% share of total US debt but they're still not buying the farm. I don't think China will ever get the chance to buy the farm; relatively soon the catastrophic spending policies like that of the current administration will turn investors and the world away from the dollar, leading to its collapse (= no one will buy US debt).

[GoCougs]

It was Nixon who got us into this mess with China in the first place.  By visiting Mao and opening China, he awoke a sleeping giant who may one day crush us.  We would have been much better off isolating Communist China in much the same manner as the Soviet Union, forcing the country and it's corrupt government to collapse from within.  Instead, Nixon sowed the seeds of our own destruction and Ronald Reagan made matters worse by pursuing economic policies which encouraged American companies to export manufacturing jobs to China.

In thirty years time, when America is a third world shithole, you can thank Nixon and Reagan for making it happen!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

Nah - the reason why we need to sell our debt; the disastrous socialist liberal policies such as Social Security, Medicare, nationalized health care, and other spending policies like that of this administration; is the problem. The how is irrelevant; if it wasn't China it'd be someone else.

[dazzleman]

It was Nixon who got us into this mess with China in the first place.  By visiting Mao and opening China, he awoke a sleeping giant who may one day crush us.  We would have been much better off isolating Communist China in much the same manner as the Soviet Union, forcing the country and it's corrupt government to collapse from within.  Instead, Nixon sowed the seeds of our own destruction and Ronald Reagan made matters worse by pursuing economic policies which encouraged American companies to export manufacturing jobs to China.

In thirty years time, when America is a third world shithole, you can thank Nixon and Reagan for making it happen!


Cheers,
Madman of the People

We weren't powerful enough to isolate both China and the Soviet Union, so Nixon picked the lesser of two evils.

[dazzleman]

China is still only buying about 35% of new US debt these days IIRC. More than its 9% share of total US debt but they're still not buying the farm. I don't think China will ever get the chance to buy the farm; relatively soon the catastrophic spending policies like that of the current administration will turn investors and the world away from the dollar, leading to its collapse (= no one will buy US debt).

Yes, you may be right.

[dazzleman]

Nah - the reason why we need to sell our debt; the disastrous socialist liberal policies such as Social Security, Medicare, nationalized health care, and other spending policies like that of this administration; is the problem. The how is irrelevant; if it wasn't China it'd be someone else.

True.  China is the one with the money.  If not them, it would be someone else.  And if there were nobody else, we'd be forced to change our policies.  That would be for the better.

[GoCougs]

Yes, you may be right.

What has been kept out of the spotlight is the Fed has had numerous failed bond auctions; just two weeks ago it had two failed auction in one week. Monetization is just around the corner if this keeps up.

[Madman]

A poll on the SwedeSpeed forums asks "Would you buy a Chinese built Volvo?"

43 votes have been cast so far and I'm sure the results of this poll will surprise no one.

NO:    36 votes
YES:    7 votes

Sadly, Chinese ownership will also devalue European built Volvos, too.


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Madman]

In related news, here's the sort of government Volvo will now be at the mercy of......

Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo sentenced to 11 years on 'subversion' charges

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/24/AR2009122401564.html


Volvo, meet your new masters! 


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[Xer0]

As long as Volvo makes a good car people will buy it.  Its the product, not country of origin, that should create the loyalty.  The question now is, will they actually make a good product?

[2o6]

As long as Volvo makes a good car people will buy it.  Its the product, not country of origin, that should create the loyalty.  The question now is, will they actually make a good product?

Unless they cut Volvo's funding, I think quality should be the same.

[Rich]

[the Teuton]

Jag seems to be doing just fine under Indian ownership. Why should another Asian powerhouse automatically doom Volvo?

[TurboDan]

As long as Volvo makes a good car people will buy it.  Its the product, not country of origin, that should create the loyalty.  The question now is, will they actually make a good product?

Not necessarily. I would not buy a car from a company owned by the Chinese. I try to limit everything I buy from the Chinese, actually. Unfortunately, Joe Sixpack loves cheap shit he can buy at Wal-Mart so his family can have 6 flat panel HDTVs when he legitimately can't afford one.

[the Teuton]

Not necessarily. I would not buy a car from a company owned by the Chinese. I try to limit everything I buy from the Chinese, actually. Unfortunately, Joe Sixpack loves cheap shit he can buy at Wal-Mart so his family can have 6 flat panel HDTVs when he legitimately can't afford one.

That's an unfair statement if I've ever heard one.

Walmart stretches the value of a dollar, and so do Chinese products in general.

[Madman]

Jag seems to be doing just fine under Indian ownership. Why should another Asian powerhouse automatically doom Volvo?

India is a democracy and they're not hell-bent on world domination like China.  I don't see India rapidly building up their military, either.


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[AltinD]

India is a democracy ....

... oh I forgot, they got elections ...

[nickdrinkwater]

LOL
You guys are delusional.  Aren't some Hondas made in China already?  For fucks sake, isn't around half of all the shit you guys buy in WALMART made in China?

Who gives a shit who owns Volvo.  Does anybody know who really owns Aston Martin?  Does anybody really care who owns anything as long as the products are of good quality?

Madman, Alan Mulally has been lauded by several publications as businessman of the year 2009.  I think we can trust his judgement to sell Volvo to a bunch of evil communists who will take over the world by hiding in the rear footwells of new XC-90s.

[the Teuton]

I just read that Brilliance co-manufactures the BMW 3 Series in China.