Most significant cars of the 00's: POLL

[sportyaccordy]

How is the prius significant? Trendy doesn't = significant.   It gets less mileage than a good small diesel with more pollution- and it requires enormous cash to repair/replace the batteries which have to be handled in a certain way and disposed of by a commercial company capable of dealing with the poisons inside so as not to pollute the environment.  It's longterm operating costs WAY exceed the tiny benefit it gets the driver and it's potential to pollute the environment is shocking compared to older-cleaner-more reliable technology.  No thanks- give me a clean diesel anyday.

Yea... the Prius is the ultimate dream sold. I hope it is not indicative of the future of automobiles. I would much rather make do with a smart (electric accessories, engine off when stopped) turbo diesel. 99% of America couldn't tell the difference.

[2o6]

Sporty, I don't think you understand what the focus did.


-It matched or bettered most of it's competitors interior room, DESPITE being 5 or more inches shorter.

-It's "new edge" styling was considered radical. (For 1998-1999)

-It was fun.

-And cheap.


What has the Fusion done? The latest one, despite it's improvements, looks like the old car. It's now great, but the competition is just as good.


The PT had a 2 year waiting list, IIRC, when it came out. It was influential. The beetle was sorta retro, but the PT was more popular with a broader audience.

How is the prius significant? Trendy doesn't = significant.   It gets less mileage than a good small diesel with more pollution- and it requires enormous cash to repair/replace the batteries which have to be handled in a certain way and disposed of by a commercial company capable of dealing with the poisons inside so as not to pollute the environment.  It's longterm operating costs WAY exceed the tiny benefit it gets the driver and it's potential to pollute the environment is shocking compared to older-cleaner-more reliable technology.  No thanks- give me a clean diesel anyday.

It's significant because it has pushed automakers to think seriously about cutting down on emissions and conserving fuel. It also is the 1st Hybrid that is a "real car", that is one that is comfortable in the city and on the highway, and has room for four larger people.

Yea... the Prius is the ultimate dream sold. I hope it is not indicative of the future of automobiles. I would much rather make do with a smart (electric accessories, engine off when stopped) turbo diesel. 99% of America couldn't tell the difference.

I think if the Prius was at around 18-19K (insight territory, but better MPG's) it'd make more sense.

[ifcar]

Sporty, I don't think you understand what the focus did.


-It matched or bettered most of it's competitors interior room, DESPITE being 5 or more inches shorter.

-It's "new edge" styling was considered radical. (For 1998-1999)

-It was fun.

-And cheap.

I don't think you understand what all that didn't do: matter.

[2o6]

I don't think you understand what all that didn't do: matter.

It mattered enough. Yes, price was a strong motivator, but no doubt competitors took in mind the Focus' space saving shape and great dynamics.


And styling was a BIG thing.

[rohan]

It's significant because it has pushed automakers to think seriously about cutting down on emissions and conserving fuel. It also is the 1st Hybrid that is a "real car", that is one that is comfortable in the city and on the highway, and has room for four larger people.


I think if the Prius was at around 18-19K (insight territory, but better MPG's) it'd make more sense.

Ok I can see some of that- but the VW and other german diesels have been with us for a long time.  Hell- Ford made a Escort diesel in the 80's (maybe 90's) that got something like 50 mpg. Hell they make a car that gets 65mpg now- But the emissions argument is just bunk except that I think you're right it did get makers to think about it more- but it's not that great honestly if you compare it to other techs which we should've been pushing for a long time.  The one place I CAN see it as significant is that it proves the American people will believe anything that's said to them if it's said often enough with a straight face.  (actually global warming proved that but this just concretes it)

And I voted the 7, the Mustang and the 300c.  I voted the 300c because it signalled the end of Chrysler and everyone knew it.

[SVT666]

How did the Camaro make the list?  It hasn't been out long enough to be significant.

Anyway, I voted Focus, Neon SRT-4, and Mustang.  I would have voted SVT Focus if my nomination had been included because of how it forced every other manufacturer who had a hot hatch to step up it's game.  My reasons for the other votes are:

1. Focus:  It helped save Ford.  The SVT version was light years better then anything else available, and the regular Focus provided something no one else did at the time: Entertaining drive for very little money wrapped in the best looking sheetmetal any compact hatchback in North America has ever had.

2. Neon SRT-4:  240 hp in a FWD compact.  This started the FWD pocket rocket craze.

3. 2005 Mustang:  The PT Cruiser and New Beetle may have come before it, but this car made retro cool, and it is popular with every demographic.  I've seen them in the driveways of multi-million dollar houses to lower middle class and everywhere in between.  Without the success of the 2005 Mustang, the Camaro, Challenger, and Genesis Coupe would have never made production.  

[ifcar]

It mattered enough. Yes, price was a strong motivator, but no doubt competitors took in mind the Focus' space saving shape and great dynamics.


And styling was a BIG thing.

They didn't take those things into account at all, and Ford walked away from them itself. The Focus was largely bought as a cheap knockoff Civic, like every other recent American compact car. And when Ford figured that out for 2008, sales took off.

[Vinsanity]

How did the Camaro make the list?  It hasn't been out long enough to be significant.

When the 1990 Lexus LS came out in 1989 and the 2000 Focus came out in 1999, people already knew that these cars signaled a new era in motoring. I'd argue that the Camaro is doing the same thing (or at least trying to)

2. Neon SRT-4:  240 hp in a FWD compact.  This started the FWD pocket rocket craze.

I'd say that the 1983 VW Golf GTI started the FWD pocket rocket craze.

[rohan]

When the 1990 Lexus LS came out in 1989 and the 2000 Focus came out in 1999, people already knew that these cars signaled a new era in motoring. I'd argue that the Camaro is doing the same thing (or at least trying to)

By doing what?  It's coming in at the tail end of the retro era with a car only a scant few people will even like let alone want.  I can't see this car as anything more than a attempt to try to "one-up" ford and the "retro" mustang which they started with in 1994.

I'd say that the 1983 VW Golf GTI started the FWD pocket rocket craze.

Wasn't that the infamous "Goes Like Hell" GLH?

[2o6]

Wasn't that the infamous "Goes Like Hell" GLH?

No.

[rohan]

What was the GLH then?

[2o6]

What was the GLH then?

It didn't start the hot hatch craze.

[Tave]

The Omni GLH was introduced in '84.

[rohan]

The Omni GLH was introduced in '84.

Yeah- I found it in google.  That car was a riot.

[rohan]

It didn't start the hot hatch craze.

I'ld throw out the argument that the whole Shelby charger/laser group started the craze.  (but only for you guys to have something more to debate)

[the Teuton]

The Prius is influential because it:

1) Got eco-weenies out of old Rabbits and Metros and into something that could be both modern and economical.

2) Is classless. Everyone from your neighbor to Leonardo DiCaprio drives one.

3) Looks like nothing else on the road...except for the Insight now.

4) Brought the technology to the masses. Come on, 150k sales per year is nothing to scoff at.

5) To paraphrase Clarkson, it says that you're selflessly trying to save the world by bringing attention to yourself (See #3).

6) It forced its competition to get serious. The EV1, EV Plus, and original Insight were all experiments. The PNGV program faltered after Bush came into office, and the vehicles that came from it were all too expensive to be commercially viable anyway. The Prius changed that.

Just some reasons right there off the top of my head...

[Raza]

No need to be intentionally obtuse. AWD is not new. AWD with (correct me if I'm wrong 565) 4 wheel torque vectoring is. Porsche may have made PDK 25 years ago, but the GT-R preceded them putting it into a road car. In fact the GT-R was the reason they put it into a road car. Also it was the first AWD car with a rear transaxle (which I still find a bit goofy). I am pretty sure the GT-R was not the first road car with a DSG, but it's def the best showcasing of this technology.

Most importantly though the GT-R redefines the benchmark of performance for all cars in and above its price range. It's fun to drive, it provides brutal & reliable track performance and it can hang with cars 2-3x its price no problem. Really, for all out driving thrills it's hard for me to justify a 911 anything over a GT-R; thankfully for the 911 the GT-R is ugly both visually and aurally. But to discount the GT-R's impact is silly IMO. Just because its technology hasn't or won't trickle down to a Sentra doesn't mean its not significant.

The NSX was unprecedented in its combination of reliability and performance. It set the standard for the livability of everything from a 911 and beyond. I think that's pretty significant.
I would say the Fusion is more of a reason for that. The Focus is a good car but generally speaking small cars in America are celebrated most for being cheap, reliable and not totally dull to drive. The Focus is essentially a properly sized and priced Contour.... not exactly a groundbreaking, phenomenal or influential car.

And what trends has the PT Cruiser set? The only other kitschy retro styled small mainstreamer of this decade, if you could even call it that, was the New Beetle which was in no way a volume leader or influential car. It was a Golf with no rear headroom and a flower holder (and an available R32 drivetrain in Europe). I suppose you could count the HHR, but I'd say that's more in the vein of Scion's lineup, which to me was much more influential than the Focus or PT.

Okay, so the GT-R had a DCT before Porsche put it in a road car.  Big whoop.  Porsche invented it 25 years ago.  VW/Audi had it in a road car first.  The GT-R is less of a breakthrough then the Audi TT 3.2, which, I believe was the first road car with DCT technology.  AWD, V6, DCT.  And years ahead of the GT-R.  Actually, if you think about it, the Audi TT was far more significant than the GT-R.  It was a style icon and benchmark, and opened the door for small performance cars to come to light.  There may not have been a 350Z or RX-8 if it weren't for the TT.  

The GT-R was the reason they put it in the 911?  In fact?  Please cite your source.

And yes, I agree the NSX was heavily influential on the upper end of the sports and GT car manufacturers...but not significant to the whole, which is the same point I have with the GT-R.  You can't punch one guy in the face and be called the most violent person of the decade.  

I think the Focus was a huge influence on Volkswagen, especially when it came the MkV Golf; the car the world drives.  It was a quality bread and butter car that sold very well.  The Focus may have been more influential in Europe than here, but influential nonetheless.  

Also, do you think there would have been a 300C if the PT Cruiser weren't a sales success?  Or a GTO?  G8?  Challenger?  Mini?  Mustang?  The New Beetle may have been first, but the PT Cruiser opened up the market.

And how could SCION be more influential than the Focus or PT Cruiser (and the idea that the PT carbon copy HHR is more analogous to a Scion than the PT is laughable at best)?  A small hatch that came into a market that was opened up by...wait, I can't remember...what's it called?  Oh yeah, the Focus.  No Scion without the Focus.  

My yardstick here is the It's a Wonderful Life test.  If Car A didn't exist, how different would the market be today?  If the GT-R didn't exist, how different would the market be today?  Answer?  Not very.

[the Teuton]

I don't think we've seen the full impact of the GT-R yet. I say wait until the C7 Corvette, the Lexus LFA (yeah, I know...), the RX7, and the next line of BMW M sports cars come out before we can see what its influence is.

It has, though, made sure that Porsche and Audi gave the world better sports cars than anyone could have possibly imagined.

[nickdrinkwater]

Focus because it transformed Ford's fortunes in that segment and was recognised universally as a class leader so the first car to be truly successful both sides of the pond.

MINI because it showed that you can get people to pay big for something small.  And that retro could be good if done properly to the extent that a lot of people probably forget that the MINI is even a retro design at all.

Genesis because it marked the arrival of the Korean marques as serious competitors to Europe, Japan and America on aspects other than price.  Hyundai have gone from strength to strength recently, and this car summed that up perfectly.

Runner up:  GT-R.  Got everyone with a remote interest in cars talking, so possibly the most influential from an enthusiast POV.  Also gave Porsche a kick up the arse, creating a lot of publicity for Nissan in the process.  However, I feel that the REALLY influential GT-R was the R33 and that the latest one is a continuation of that.

[nickdrinkwater]

They didn't take those things into account at all, and Ford walked away from them itself. The Focus was largely bought as a cheap knockoff Civic, like every other recent American compact car. And when Ford figured that out for 2008, sales took off.

When the original Mini was launched all those decades ago, it was pretty much a sales flop.  It definitely wasn't a hit.  However, those indifferent sales early on never stopped it becoming anything less than iconic.

Not saying that the Focus will become any icon, just that sales aren't everything here.

[nickdrinkwater]

I don't see what was significant about the 02 Escalade.  The luxury SUV trend started with the Lincoln Navigator and Cadillac copied them when they brought out the Escalade soon after.  By the time the 02 Escalade came along BMW already lead the market with the X5.

Also struggling to see what was significant about the E65 7 Series which was bettered by the S-Class at the time and if anything, will be remembered for being ugly.

The WRX?  Well, maybe it was in the right place at the right time in terms of the import/tuner craze in the US.  But otherwise, what was the significant impact it made and will be remembered for?

[nickdrinkwater]

I voted for the PT Cruiser (for popularizing the whole retro craze), the Prius (for obvious reasons), and my third vote is a write-in for the Porsche Cayenne.

The Beetle did this long before the PT Cruiser.  Agree on the Prius though; should have put it in my list.

[2o6]

The Beetle did this long before the PT Cruiser.  Agree on the Prius though; should have put it in my list.

In the US, the PT was more successful with a wider audience.

[ifcar]

When the original Mini was launched all those decades ago, it was pretty much a sales flop.  It definitely wasn't a hit.  However, those indifferent sales early on never stopped it becoming anything less than iconic.

Not saying that the Focus will become any icon, just that sales aren't everything here.

The car had no influence on the US market. It offered something that no one was interested in here, no one moved to copy it (in the US market), and Ford moved away from what it once was to make into a true spiritual successor to the cheap'n'cheerful Escort (again, in the US market). The sales, which were acceptable only when the car was dirt cheap, only serve to illustrate that. A car can certainly be influential without selling well; the Focus just wasn't.

[sportyaccordy]

I am not saying the Focus was not an excellent car; I am just saying what we (Carspinners) value in it is not what made it successful. It was cheap, reliable and not boring to drive- pretty much the only requirements for a small car to succeed in North America.

The PT Cruiser was a success, but really didn't influence much. What cars were borne out of the PT Cruiser's creation? The HHR?

[2o6]

I am not saying the Focus was not an excellent car; I am just saying what we (Carspinners) value in it is not what made it successful. It was cheap, reliable and not boring to drive- pretty much the only requirements for a small car to succeed in North America.

The PT Cruiser was a success, but really didn't influence much. What cars were borne out of the PT Cruiser's creation? The HHR?

The Mustang, HHR, and most retro vehicles. The PT made it popular.

[JWC]

I'd give credit to the "retro" look to the 1993/4 Dodge Ram.  It was introduced to the dealers as such and it seems to be the vehicle that proved such a look could be successful.

[ifcar]

I'd give credit to the "retro" look to the 1993/4 Dodge Ram.  It was introduced to the dealers as such and it seems to be the vehicle that proved such a look could be successful.

That was retro?

[JWC]

That was retro?

Yep....the styling was supposedly based on a concept of modern styling with a hint of a late 40's/50's Dodge truck.

That was the idea behind the huge fenders and grille work.  I was at a Chrysler dealer when it was unveiled and Chrysler was very proud of the "retro" styling.

[Onslaught]

Wow, it just hit me how much the last 10 years have sucked.