Cadillac XTS Platinum Concept!

[nickdrinkwater]

It's really very simple.

CADILLAC AND GM have said several times what their intent for cadillac is.

AND THIS ISN"T GOING IN THE RIGHT FUCKING DIRECTION

You know personally I don't care what they end up doing.

Just as long as they don't piss and moan when sales fall even more and cadi is the next head on the chopping block. Also I don't want to see them pissing and moaning when they do get put into comparo's and fall way way short of the germans.

Shit, hyundai has a better vision of what a luxury competitor should be. In case some don't get it, when you want to be a "competitor" you have to look at the competition. In this case the LUXURY competition is 2 fields. The "true" luxury and the "entry" luxury. Cadillac(and GM) has stated interest in the first, yet continues to shoot for the entry field.

I agree.  But it was all too inevitable really.  They were touting Cadillac as the global luxury brand, well between this and rebadged Saab 9-3s, no way Jose.

The new XJ is gonna eat this thing alive

[68_427]

It would be nice for my mom. 

[2o6]

In many parts of Asia and Europe, decked out minivans are used for transporting luxury personnel.


Lower the roofline, add a trunk, and you have what what essentially those vans are doing, but in a much more attractive package.

[2o6]

It's really very simple.

CADILLAC AND GM have said several times what their intent for cadillac is.

AND THIS ISN"T GOING IN THE RIGHT FUCKING DIRECTION

You know personally I don't care what they end up doing.

Just as long as they don't piss and moan when sales fall even more and cadi is the next head on the chopping block. Also I don't want to see them pissing and moaning when they do get put into comparo's and fall way way short of the germans.

Shit, hyundai has a better vision of what a luxury competitor should be. In case some don't get it, when you want to be a "competitor" you have to look at the competition. In this case the LUXURY competition is 2 fields. The "true" luxury and the "entry" luxury. Cadillac(and GM) has stated interest in the first, yet continues to shoot for the entry field.

You're a bit of a troll.

The average S-class and 7-series buyer doesn't care what-wheel-drive it is.

[CJ]

Where do you get your facts?

[Submariner]

I don't have to, as the Caddy will be available in AWD, which matches teh A8, Phaeton, 4matic Mercedes, and X drive 7 series. And while power may be a luxury item, a lot of luxury car buyers these days are starting to opt for smaller engine luxury cars in the states, much like they've been doing for year in the rest of the world (for example my 740iL was available with a 2.8 liter 6 cyl in Europe...).





I dunno, it's not THAT bad.

Proof that a FWD platform can be made to look great.

GM blew it...this looks half-assed, and I'm willing to bet they didn't dedicate a lot of time or money to the platform.  Sure, the interior looks great, but like the STS, I have a feeling this is going to turn out to be a mediocre at best entry into the exec. class of cars. 

[SVT666]

Proof that a FWD platform can be made to look great.

GM blew it...this looks half-assed, and I'm willing to bet they didn't dedicate a lot of time or money to the platform.  Sure, the interior looks great, but like the STS, I have a feeling this is going to turn out to be a mediocre at best entry into the exec. class of cars. 

I just don't see where you figure it looks half-assed.

[Submariner]

I just don't see where you figure it looks half-assed.

Between the obviously platform driven front end, do the really high, longish rear, it just looks awkward.  The front is the worst offense of all, though.  It looks really, really poorly done. 

[Submariner]

You're a bit of a troll.

The average S-class and 7-series buyer doesn't care what-wheel-drive it is.

Ha!  Sure they don't. 

[SVT666]

Between the obviously platform driven front end, do the really high, longish rear, it just looks awkward.  The front is the worst offense of all, though.  It looks really, really poorly done. 

I can't agree with you.  I don't even like Cadillac, and I think this car looks really sharp and the interior looks phenomenal.

[CJ]

Ha!  Sure they don't. 

My sentiments exactly.  If the average buyer didn't care, then they'd all have a DTS, Lucerne, or this thing.

[the Teuton]

My sentiments exactly.  If the average buyer didn't care, then they'd all have a DTS, Lucerne, or this thing.

The DTS and Lucerne had no cache, were whored out to fleets, and had 12-year-old (at the time) platforms with outdated engines and transmissions.

Playing the devil's advocate, I cite the ES350 as an example that a large FWD car can thrive in the entry lux marketplace.

[Submariner]

The DTS and Lucerne had no cache, were whored out to fleets, and had 12-year-old (at the time) platforms with outdated engines and transmissions.

Playing the devil's advocate, I cite the ES350 as an example that a large FWD car can thrive in the entry lux marketplace.

It's not large, and is one of Lexus's cheapest models.  Their mid and full size vehicles are RWD. 

[giant_mtb]

It does seem rather stretched, especially the roofline.  The hood looks too stubby, though the rear proportion looks fine.  They just seem to have tried to stretch the front door/window/windshield out a bit too much.  It's too "cab-forward"-like, though it still looks good.  Somewhat awkward proportions, is all.

[CJ]

This isn't the best picture ever, but here it is:





That's the S500 that my friend has.  He bought it in September for $15,000 withe very imaginable service record.  The air shocks have been replaced entirely, so he's good on that front.  The only thing he has left to do is replace the cup holder, which was shattered when his drunk friend went psycho.  The cup holder and armrest assembly is $700. 

[CJ]

That's also after I finished machine polishing it.  Took 18 hours total. 

[J86]

Hehe, that's a funny car for a kid to buy (I assume he's your age?)

[giant_mtb]

It took you 18 hours to buff out a car?  Damn ya'll.

[CJ]

Hehe, that's a funny car for a kid to buy (I assume he's your age?)

He's 20.  Went from a Chevy Blazer ZR2 to a 1995 940 Turbo wagon that was nice as hell, then to a 1998 V70 T5 that was pretty quick and nice to drive, and then to the Mercedes. 

[CJ]

It took you 18 hours to buff out a car?  Damn ya'll.

It's a HUGE car.  Besides, the car has barely any swirls now.  Mercedes clear coat is also very hard. 

[J86]

He's 20.  Went from a Chevy Blazer ZR2 to a 1995 940 Turbo wagon that was nice as hell, then to a 1998 V70 T5 that was pretty quick and nice to drive, and then to the Mercedes. 

Hm, interesting set of choices for a young guy!  (I assume he picked 'em all.)

[CJ]

Hm, interesting set of choices for a young guy!  (I assume he picked 'em all.)

The Blazer was his uncles old car that he bought for $2k, I think it was.  It was rolled in a field doing donuts.  Then the 940 came about.  That was the nicest 940 other than mine.  Perfect inside and out, like mine.  The V70 came after he wrecked the 940 into a guardrail after swerving to avoid hitting a deer.  The Mercedes came after he sold the V70 to his then girlfriend.  And then a few weeks after buying the Mercedes, it was rear ended.

[Catman]

I agree with Hemi.  I'm not sure what you guys find so offensive about this car.

[CJ]

The front end is too stubby.  If the car had a shorter rear overhang, then it wouldn't be so bad.

[Catman]

More posters seem to like it on Autoblog.  I like the short front end.  I think the long greenhouse should make the interior feel really big.  I think this car will be a nice flagship, it doesn't need to be an autobahn car, although a V series might be cool. 

[2o6]

More posters seem to like it on Autoblog.  I like the short front end.  I think the long greenhouse should make the interior feel really big.  I think this car will be a nice flagship, it doesn't need to be an autobahn car, although a V series might be cool. 

I wish people would understand that. Just because top gear hoons these cars, or one or two people down the line buy them used, their primary market doesn't care.

[pendyman]

With regard to hood length:





The Bimmer?s nose is incredibly long. It almost looks art deco-ish. Look where the windshield pillars land, visually.

However, I can?t dislike the Caddy?s profile. The windshield pillars arc right into the front wheels. I like that. It?s just a different approach, made possible by the sideways engine. But to me it looks a little more modern.

I?m not saying these cars are going to be cross-shopped. The BMW starts at over 80K.

The Caddy is just a concept. I haven?t seen mention of performance expectations. That will determine a great deal of the fate of this car. As well as final wheels, packaging, and so forth. But this looks promising.

[ChrisV]

That's an A8.  I was talking about this:

The nose was always way too big, but it looks great next to this new XTS!

The XTS doesn't compete with the A6, so what it looks like in comparison is not important.

Hood too short? Wheelbase too short? I don't think you guys know that this is a BIG car!





This may be based on the Lacrosse, but it's considerably larger...

[omicron]

It's not the short overhang that's the problem.  This is usually a GOOD thing.  It's the short overhang and the short wheelbase and short hood that's the problem.  It's the space between the base of the windshield and front wheels that's too short.

It reminds me of what I thought about the new Saab 9-5...it looks like the front and back halves of two different cars.  (Aren't these cars built off the same platform?)  If you work your eye from front to back, or vice versa, you expect the other half to look different.

I actually think there's a lot to like about the design of this car - the back, the front, even the profile (if you take each half separately!).  I don't think it's awful or ugly - just really let down by the proportions brought on by the compromised layout.  If GM had the money, this would have been RWD, just like the CTS.  They, and everyone else, knows that the RWD, and the sharp styling allowed by it, is a big part of what makes the CTS successful.  GM needs to be

I agree completely. I've said it before and I'll say it again - one of the most influential design features on a car is the distance between the front wheelarch and the trailing edge of the windscreen/front door (relative to the height of the front end). It's the old long hood/short deck argument, and it's one of the most fundamental aspects of the best-proportioned cars.





That Arnage posted by TootSweet is a perfect example - the inches of space between the windscreen/front door and the wheelarch are sufficiently long and assertive to balance out the length of the rest of the car without appearing nose-heavy, and those extra inches are exactly what this new Cadillac needs. There's nothing at all wrong with overhang, because the rear end of this car looks fantastic, but it needs to be balanced elsewhere. A big boot and rear overhang needs a powerful front fender and a smaller front overhang, or you end up with a small-car front end on a large car.

It's not necessarily a RWD-only trait, either (although I'd imagine it to be far easier without an engine stuck out beyond the front wheels) - there are some FWD cars that overcome their inherently-flawed proportions beautifully using the basic long hood/short deck principles:

[Submariner]

With regard to hood length:





The Bimmer?s nose is incredibly long. It almost looks art deco-ish. Look where the windshield pillars land, visually.

However, I can?t dislike the Caddy?s profile. The windshield pillars arc right into the front wheels. I like that. It?s just a different approach, made possible by the sideways engine. But to me it looks a little more modern.

I?m not saying these cars are going to be cross-shopped. The BMW starts at over 80K.

The Caddy is just a concept. I haven?t seen mention of performance expectations. That will determine a great deal of the fate of this car. As well as final wheels, packaging, and so forth. But this looks promising.

Wow, that 7 looks fantastic.