Volkswagen Passat R36 Stretch

[Tom]

Why would that be?

And even a standard Town Car probably couldn't beat an extended-length Passat.

Ha!  Now that's just untrue :)  

[TBR]

Why would you say that?  

[Tom]

The Passat would be overburdened with weight.  A standard Passat is much lighter than a limo version would be.  

[TBR]

The Town Car is also overburdened, even without a stretch job. I think they would be similarly slow, after being converted to limo size a Passat would likely weigh the same as a standard Town Car and they have similar amounts of power.

[giant_mtb]

The Town Car is also overburdened, even without a stretch job. I think they would be similarly slow, after being converted to limo size a Passat would likely weigh the same as a standard Town Car and they have similar amounts of power.

The Town Car isn't overburdened.

[TBR]

For $45000 it most certainly is.

[giant_mtb]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.  

[Tom]

The Town Car is also overburdened, even without a stretch job. I think they would be similarly slow, after being converted to limo size a Passat would likely weigh the same as a standard Town Car and they have similar amounts of power.

There is a 7-800 pound difference stock.  I'm willing to bet a Passat converted to a limo would add more weight, especially if it were given a needed RWD drivetrain.  With the 3.6 it would have less torqe than the Linc's 4.6.

[Tom]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Agreed, it's market buyer does not like to accelerate fast, but wants acceptable torque down low.  For what it's worth, it travels quite capably at high speeds.

[giant_mtb]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Agreed, it's market buyer does not like to accelerate fast, but wants acceptable torque down low.  For what it's worth, it travels quite capably at high speeds.

Deffinitely.

[TBR]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Sorry, if I am spending $45000-$50000 on a car I expect better than average performance, not an unreasonable demand at all.

And, why would the Passat have to be converted to RWD? There are thousands of FWD Cadillac limos out there.

[giant_mtb]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Sorry, if I am spending $45000-$50000 on a car I expect better than average performance, not an unreasonable demand at all.

And, why would the Passat have to be converted to RWD? There are thousands of FWD Cadillac limos out there.

But, as Tom stated the buyers aren't lookin' for performance...it's a cruiser.  Not meant to be fast, but comfy as hell for cruisin' down the highway and around town.

[Tom]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Sorry, if I am spending $45000-$50000 on a car I expect better than average performance, not an unreasonable demand at all.

And, why would the Passat have to be converted to RWD? There are thousands of FWD Cadillac limos out there.

Ok, even with FWD, I think you are underestimating the weight gain.  Not only is the more metal, but big-ass seats and more weight going into structural support.

[TBR]

Just because the buyers don't want performance doesn't mean it isn't slower than it should be. Ford must be making $15k on those things, you would have to be a sucker to buy a new one imho when the much superior DTS is similarly priced.

[TBR]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Sorry, if I am spending $45000-$50000 on a car I expect better than average performance, not an unreasonable demand at all.

And, why would the Passat have to be converted to RWD? There are thousands of FWD Cadillac limos out there.

Ok, even with FWD, I think you are underestimating the weight gain.  Not only is the more metal, but big-ass seats and more weight going into structural support.

No I am not, I am perfectly aware that a stretch could add 1000 or so lbs, but the car already weighs 3700 lbs so porportionally that isn't enough weight to make the car take longer than 8.5 seconds to get to 60.

[giant_mtb]

You're saying you expect a luxury cruiser to be fast?  Mid-8's is nothing to sneeze at...it's plenty quick, you know.

Sorry, if I am spending $45000-$50000 on a car I expect better than average performance, not an unreasonable demand at all.

And, why would the Passat have to be converted to RWD? There are thousands of FWD Cadillac limos out there.

Ok, even with FWD, I think you are underestimating the weight gain.  Not only is the more metal, but big-ass seats and more weight going into structural support.

No I am not, I am perfectly aware that a stretch could add 1000 or so lbs, but the car already weighs 3700 lbs so porportionally that isn't enough weight to make the car take longer than 8.5 seconds to get to 60.

Well there's more than just weight...there's aerodynamic drag added as well, not just above the car but below as well.  :)  

[TBR]

An extension shouldn't effect the aerodynamics of the car and even if it did it wouldn't matter much at just 60 mph.

[giant_mtb]

An extension shouldn't effect the aerodynamics of the car and even if it did it wouldn't matter much at just 60 mph.

I think you'd be surprised...

[TBR]

I think I wouldn't, our family has a garage full of vehicles with brick wall style aerodynamics.

[giant_mtb]

Ok.  Take a biker and have him coast down a good length steep hill while sitting straight up so all the wind hits him.  Time him and if possible clock his speed.

Then have the same biker do the same thing again, but have him tuck into an aerodynamic position.  I can gurantee his time and top speed will be much better than the previous run, and that's going maybe 20 MPH and a bike and person is very small compared to a car...

I think you would be surprised.

[TBR]

Ok.  Take a biker and have him coast down a good length steep hill while sitting straight up so all the wind hits him.  Time him and if possible clock his speed.

Then have the same biker do the same thing again, but have him tuck into an aerodynamic position.  I can gurantee his time and top speed will be much better than the previous run, and that's going maybe 20 MPH and a bike and person is very small compared to a car...

I think you would be surprised.

Riding a bike is a bit different than driving a car, with a car you have a whole lot more power so the aerodynamics take effect much later.

[BMWDave]

A biker is completely different from a car.  A car is not a person, and does not respond to certain factors, such as minimal extra wind buffeting, that would prove too hard for a human to maintain.

[giant_mtb]

Ok, here's a better comparison...

Stick your hand out the window at 20 MPH...quite a bit of resistance.  Then lay your hand flat so the air flows over it...much less resistance.  

What I'm saying is that the more surface area there is that comes into contact with the wind, the more wind resistance there will be.

[TBR]

Ok, here's a better comparison...

Stick your hand out the window at 20 MPH...quite a bit of resistance.  Then lay your hand flat so the air flows over it...much less resistance.  

What I'm saying is that the more surface area there is that comes into contact with the wind, the more wind resistance there will be.

Well duh, but there isn't enough resistence to have a negative effect on acceleration until you get above 70 or so.

[giant_mtb]

Ok, here's a better comparison...

Stick your hand out the window at 20 MPH...quite a bit of resistance.  Then lay your hand flat so the air flows over it...much less resistance. 

What I'm saying is that the more surface area there is that comes into contact with the wind, the more wind resistance there will be.

Well duh, but there isn't enough resistence to have a negative effect on acceleration until you get above 70 or so.

You can't be serious...

[Raghavan]

Ok, here's a better comparison...

Stick your hand out the window at 20 MPH...quite a bit of resistance.  Then lay your hand flat so the air flows over it...much less resistance. 

What I'm saying is that the more surface area there is that comes into contact with the wind, the more wind resistance there will be.

Well duh, but there isn't enough resistence to have a negative effect on acceleration until you get above 70 or so.

You can't be serious...

Look, the engine will be powerful enogh to over power any hint of drag and resistance until the car gets up to 80 mph or so. until then, it's not really a factor.

[TBR]

Rag is right (that is the first time I have said that ), when you have 200+ hp at your disposal the aerodynamics don't matter very much until you get going pretty fast.

[giant_mtb]

I guess I'll take your word for it then.  

[TBR]

Good, you just have to realize that a human power is a lot different from a horse power , and it is even more different from 200 of those horse powers .

[giant_mtb]

I wasn't meaning to compare human power to the power of a car, I was simply trying to display my opinion on how surface area affects speed and acceleration...so being the biker that I am, bikes is what came to my mind first.  :)