Toyota recalls 2.3 million more cars with stuck accelerator

[ifcar]

So Jalopnik posts that one of the assembly lines that is suspended is the Camry line at the Subaru plant in Indiana.  Is there any possibility that the accelerator problem be found in any of the Subaru models made there?  I'm unclear as to what parts Toyota and Subaru share, if any.

Toyota is just using that plant's capacity. The cars aren't related.

[TBR]

So Jalopnik posts that one of the assembly lines that is suspended is the Camry line at the Subaru plant in Indiana.  Is there any possibility that the accelerator problem be found in any of the Subaru models made there?  I'm unclear as to what parts Toyota and Subaru share, if any.

I don't believe they share any. Toyota doesn't actually own a majority share of Subaru.

[Madman]

Toyota is leasing the part of the Subaru facility in Lafayette, Indiana that was left vacant when production of the Isuzu Rodeo ended a few years ago.  Toyota couldn't build enough Camrys at its Georgetown, Kentucky plant and Subaru had excess capacity, so a deal was struck.  This deal was made before Toyota bought GM's shares in Subaru, IIRC.


Madman of the People

[Raza]

A recall of 2.3 million cars costs $1,012,000 in stamps alone.

Can we estimate how long the fix for each car will take and labor cost?  I figure $100 an hour for labor, but depending on how long each fix takes, the costs could vary wildly.

If you have a quarter hour fix, you have a cost of  $57,500,000.00.
30 minutes:  $115,000,000.00
1 hour:   $230,000,000.00

Add in lost revenue due to the sales stoppage.....who thinks this is still just a PR move?

[AutobahnSHO]

who thinks this is still just a PR move?

In the end, everything is PR.
If they don't fix the cars and more people die, then the entire brand tanks. Plus they'd get sued up and down the ying-yang...

I was talking about this with a friend- we need to IMMEDIATELY market a killswitch to the fuelpump, charge $200-300 to install it. And make bazillions off id10t drivers....

[SVT666]

There is no way they would do this if it wasn't a problem.  This costs way too much money for a little minor PR.

[r0tor]

ahh the good old gross overexageration Ford Explorer / Firestone mentality has struck again in the auto world 

[AutobahnSHO]

There is no way they would do this if it wasn't a problem.  This costs way too much money for a little minor PR.

+1
I don't think it's anything mechanical. I think it's computer/software related.

[93JC]

This is hilarious. Good job people, way to blow a "problem" out of proportion.

The funniest part about this is Toyota apologists rushing to defend their favourite automaker. "Toyota is a great company, they're being proactive about it and making sure people are safe! If this was FORD we'd have another Pinto situation, with THOUSANDS of people DEAD because the company was more concerned about their bottom line!"

[SVT666]

+1
I don't think it's anything mechanical. I think it's computer/software related.

Well, everything is sensors these days.  Sounds like a bad batch of sensors.

[nickdrinkwater]

Damn this is a disaster for them.  How are the mainstream press in the US reporting this?

[SVT666]

Damn this is a disaster for them.  How are the mainstream press in the US reporting this?

Well, I'm in Canada and the radio talk show I listen to everyday just finished a segment on it.

[r0tor]

i heard is mockingly mentioned on 2 different morning shows this morning

[Raza]

Damn this is a disaster for them.  How are the mainstream press in the US reporting this?

I saw a breaking news alert on my local news about it.

[SVT666]

NHTSA reveals Toyota was legally obligated to halt sales of recalled vehicles
01/27/2010, 11:14 AM
BY DREW JOHNSON

   
Following Toyota?s initial recall of 3.8 million vehicles in late 2009 for unintended acceleration, the Japanese automaker released a statement claiming ?that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver?s floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured.? That statement has been proven to be false, with the automaker halting sales and production of 8 models.

Although Toyota?s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company?s latest recall.

Strickland labeled Toyota?s decision as the ?legally and morally correct thing to do,? according to The Detroit News.

Although Toyota is now following the letter of the law, the company was slow to react on its latest recall of 2.3 million vehicles. Per the rules and regulations of the NHTSA, Toyota should have immediately stopped sales of vehicles involved in the recall, but continued to sell potentially faulty vehicles for another 5 days.

The fallout from Toyota?s 8 model, 6.6 million unit recall mess remains to be seen, but the outlook does not look good. Toyota was once the pillar of reliability and quality, but now appears to be struggling under the strain of becoming the world?s largest automaker. Toyota was optimistic it could increase sales by 6 percent this year, but that goal will be difficult given U.S. Toyota dealers have virtually no products to sell.

[Raza]

I told my dad about this, and the first thing he said was "You were right", as I'd spoken over and over about the rise and fall of quality inverse to volume. 

[93JC]

Well, I'm in Canada and the radio talk show I listen to everyday just finished a segment on it.

Citytv here in Calgary had a reporter reporting live from a Toyota dealership during the morning news.

[NomisR]

I've always noticed something wrong with the Toyotas I've driven previously, I guess this explains it.  The ones I've driven all had problems with the accelerator where it didn't slow down fast enough when you're off the accelerator.  I've always wondered why people would've bought these cars with the accelerators like that.. but people did.. I guess they're saying it's faulty now.

[FoMoJo]

NHTSA reveals Toyota was legally obligated to halt sales of recalled vehicles
01/27/2010, 11:14 AM
BY DREW JOHNSON

 

I was gonna' say...

The other ignominious aspect is that...
Toyota had been aware of issues with the pedals for more than two years but in June 2008 declared reports of sticky pedals were a "drivability," rather than a safety, issue.  As part of the halt in sales, Toyota will halt production at five North American assembly plants, and reduce production at an engine plant in Alabama.

The key issue is that in this recall, Toyota hadn't found a fix.


from http://detnews.com/article/20100127/AUTO01/1270400/1148/Toyota-halts-sales-of-recalled-models/U.S.--Toyota-was-legally-required-to-stop-selling-models

According to reports, there have been unintended accelleration problems with Toyotas since they first introduced their DBW system 10 years ago.  All this may be an attempt to prevent a recall of all such vehicles sold over that period of time.

[r0tor]

ironically, toyota yesterday revealed a sales forecast of 8% growth for this year... guess the beancounters weren't watching the news 

[nickdrinkwater]

Could this break Toyota in the US (or at least reduce their domination of the market)?

[Byteme]

From the Wall Street Journal (I put some interesting bits in bold):


Toyota Motor Corp.'s drastic sales halt in the U.S. is a nightmare come true for Akio Toyoda, who took the helm last year at the world's largest auto maker, founded by his grandfather.

Mr. Toyoda, who set out last year as Toyota president to overhaul the way the company designs, manufactures and sells cars, had been worried for some time that a backlash such as the one it is now facing with the quality-related debacle would hit Toyota sooner or later, according to a longtime associate of the executive.

A senior Toyota executive reached by the phone Wednesday declined to say how long Toyota had known about possible defects that may have caused its vehicles to accelerate unintentionally, prompting a massive recall.

"That [timeframe] is a very important point, and it could become a very difficult problem for us legally," said the executive. "The issue is likely to become a huge problem for us."

Toyota still smarts from the trade-related bashing it withstood in the 1980s and 1990s and the 53-year-old Mr. Toyoda had made several moves to protect itself from new criticism, some of them before he officially became president in June 2009.

In one such effort, he decided early last year to call back a former executive, Yoshi Inaba, from retirement, and dispatched the executive, who is fluent in English and holds an MBA from Northwestern University, to New York to take charge of Toyota's American operations. Mr. Inaba, who is considered bicultural with a reputation for being comfortable in the U.S., was given the task of managing relationships with regulators and politicians in Washington.

Mr. Toyoda also has been trying to forge closer ties with Ford Motor Co. in the U.S., according to the longtime associate of Mr. Toyoda. Mr. Toyoda and other top company executives view such a relationship as "insurance" against political problems.

How Mr. Toyoda will steer Toyota through its latest crisis?now threatening the reputation of a company that has long has been viewed as the leader in automotive quality?will likely decide his legacy at his namesake company.

In a news conference immediately after taking over last June, Mr. Toyoda acknowledged that in its all-out push to become the world's largest car maker Toyota drifted away from its core value of focusing on the customer.

"I do not think we were wrong to expand our business to meet the needs of customers around the world but we may have stretched more than we should have," said Mr. Toyoda then.

Despite the reputation for being candid, Mr. Toyoda also has been gaining a reputation in Japan as being elusive. Some Japanese reporters and editors covering the company even accuse him of hiding from the media. He has given only a handful public speeches and news conferences since becoming Toyota president and rarely meets with reporters individually.

Mr. Toyoda wasn't available to comment for this article.

Those who know Mr. Toyoda said the executive isn't avoiding the media or public appearances. Rather, he is trying to spend more time in the field, as he tries to embrace a traditional Toyota practice called genchi genbutsu, a leadership maxim that boils down to getting out of the office and visiting the source of the problem, according to those people.

The longtime associate said Mr. Toyoda's effort to cultivate closer ties with Ford began taking urgency last year. Well before he officially took over the company in June from his predecessor, Katsuaki Watanabe, it was becoming increasingly clear that General Motors wanted to end a vehicle-assembly joint venture the two companies ran in California.

After ending the close relationship with GM, which Toyota forged through the manufacturing joint venture, called New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. or Nummi, Mr. Toyoda felt a bit unprotected politically in the U.S., according to this person. He wanted to fill the void with Ford, the person said.

In September, according to this person, Mr. Toyoda and Ford CEO Alan Mulally arranged to meet in San Francisco. The two executives "talked about how Toyota and Ford could cooperate to form a close relationship... and agreed to cooperate in a very general sense," the person said.

No specific deals were hammered out at the September meeting, but Messrs. Toyoda and Mulally "identified the environmental area as a possible way of cooperation," he said, noting that the two companies could help one another in green-car technologies, by jointly developing and manufacturing gasoline-electric hybrids and plug-in electric cars.

Mr. Toyoda wasn't available to comment about the September. Mr. Mulally declined to comment.

The two executives left the meeting, according to the person, agreeing to meet again.

[FoMoJo]

ironically, toyota yesterday revealed a sales forecast of 8% growth for this year... guess the beancounters weren't watching the news 

[Morris Minor]

This is a disaster for Toyota. The engineering problem is probably easy to fix. Infinitely more difficult will be dealing with the law suits & prosecutions, "What did you know and when?"

C&D on runaway Toyotas (it's in the March print version):
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

[AutobahnSHO]

Funny enough, I got an email last night from the local Toyota dealer- prices got a SUPER DUPER SALE!!!!!!
Corollas as low as $11,999, 4banger Camrys for $14,999
I guess they were trying to beat the inevitable shutdown?!

And apparently the Sienna and Prius have been developed using totally different parts/ computers/ systems?

[SVT666]

This is gonna hurt Toyota more then I ever thought.  All of the rental car agencies are pulling all Toyota vehicles out of their fleets.

[ifcar]

This is gonna hurt Toyota more then I ever thought.  All of the rental car agencies are pulling all Toyota vehicles out of their fleets.

"Good news! We reduced fleet sales!"

[Morris Minor]

This is gonna hurt Toyota more then I ever thought.  All of the rental car agencies are pulling all Toyota vehicles out of their fleets.

I thought rental companies only used shit cars that were unsaleable to sentient beings.

[SVT666]

I thought rental companies only used shit cars that were unsaleable to sentient beings.

National alone is pulling 20,000 Toyotas from their fleet.  I guess Ford or GM will benefit from that.

[Raza]

I wonder if the Camry will be usurped as the highest selling car this year.