Jealousy?

[GoCougs]

Yeah, this is turning into the ridiculous Audi 5000 "panic" of the '80s x 1000.

[FoMoJo]

My car engine brakes like an SOB.  I can't coast at all.

What car is that?

[FoMoJo]

How many vehicles has that realistically happened to though.  Less than 0.1% of all Toyotas made?  Most of the complains are most likely not that and a even bigger majority are probably user error.  The only reason that Toyotas has more complaints is because they sell more cars.  That's it.  This is more a media induced panic than a real thing.  Just like H1N1, whatever panic that they'll create tomorrow.

That's the same with any recall; only a very small percentage ever experience the problem.  Toyotas have had recalls just like any other manufacturer.  This one is different because of the way they handled it.

[FoMoJo]

Yeah, this is turning into the ridiculous Audi 5000 "panic" of the '80s x 1000.

Why, has 60 Minutes done a feature on it yet?

[Raza]

The driving force behind those accomplishments was the incredible sums of cash they made completely watering down their cars. Barring the Prius and their trucks(I know nothing about trucks), is there ANYTHING competitive about ANY Toyota/Lexus made after ~98? The only car I can think of is the 98-03 Lexus GS, and that's only because it had a blend of performance and reliability that was unmatched in its category.

Toyota's been totally sitting on its laurels. Like dude said, without reliability Toyota is dead in the water.

Value.

It's the reason my dad bought an LS460 over an S550, when he could comfortably afford either (and more; he was looking at a Flying Spur originally).  He didn't see the value in the S550. 

[93JC]

What car is that?

[sportyaccordy]

Value.

It's the reason my dad bought an LS460 over an S550, when he could comfortably afford either (and more; he was looking at a Flying Spur originally).  He didn't see the value in the S550. 

Maybe at the super far reaches this is key, but in Toyota's bread and butter markets the price differences are negligible. In fact I bet a Camry or Corolla costs more than comparably equipped competitors (+15 points for the alliteration)

[2o6]

Maybe at the super far reaches this is key, but in Toyota's bread and butter markets the price differences are negligible. In fact I bet a Camry or Corolla costs more than comparably equipped competitors (+15 points for the alliteration)

But the Camry and Corolla are smooth, soft, and quiet.

[ifcar]

Maybe at the super far reaches this is key, but in Toyota's bread and butter markets the price differences are negligible. In fact I bet a Camry or Corolla costs more than comparably equipped competitors (+15 points for the alliteration)

The Camry is more expensive than most, while the Corolla is cheaper than most competitors. When I last checked, it was no more than a comparable Elantra.

[Tave]

Value =! MSRP (although MSRP is a big part of value), and neither does value =! MSRP + standard features (although that gets it a little closer).


(hint, hint: depreciation, possibly build quality, reliability, etc...)

[FoMoJo]

Automatic?

[93JC]

Yup.

[FoMoJo]

Yup.

Then I stand corrected.  I was basing it on my rather limited experience.

[93JC]

Depends on the car. The rental Saturn Aura XE-I4s I drove in Florida had barely any engine braking.

[FoMoJo]

Depends on the car. The rental Saturn Aura XE-I4s I drove in Florida had barely any engine braking.

Most cars I've driven in the last 10 years, not a great many, have almost no engine braking.  My assumption was that they were doing it for efficiency.

[2o6]

Depends on the car. The rental Saturn Aura XE-I4s I drove in Florida had barely any engine braking.

From what I gather, the GM Ecotecs are generally lazy motors. They don't rev very quickly, nor do they brake.

[giant_mtb]

Bravvy engine brakes nicely.

[Laconian]

From what I gather, the GM Ecotecs are generally lazy motors. They don't rev very quickly, nor do they brake.

!!? An engine's ability to brake is totally unrelated to how eager it is to rev.

I think it's a case of super tall gear ratios and an AT that doesn't want to give up 4th.

[93JC]

It's more to do with the short gearing in my transmission. Even in fifth it's turning around 2100 rpm at 85 km/h (~52 mph?). The fuel economy is terrible. I think it's clearly geared for a smaller, less powerful engine.

[The Pirate]

!!? An engine's ability to brake is totally unrelated to how eager it is to rev.

I think it's a case of super tall gear ratios and an AT that doesn't want to give up 4th.

Compression ratio also has a lot to do with engine braking ability. 

[The Pirate]

It's more to do with the short gearing in my transmission. Even in fifth it's turning around 2100 rpm at 85 km/h (~52 mph?). The fuel economy is terrible. I think it's clearly geared for a smaller, less powerful engine.

Yeah, my car turns right around 3400 rpm at 120 km/h.  Nice to not have to downshift for hills though, and I do enjoy the short gearing on backroads.  But she is a thirsty girl.

[93JC]

If I'm on flat land 120 km/h = 2800 rpm.

In the Spirit 120 km/h = ~2000 rpm.


You're right though, it is nice to have that power on tap. Once I'm in fifth there's really no reason to shift down unless I'm going up a VERY steep hill or have slowed to 50ish km/h.

[Laconian]

Yay, we're all in the Mazda nippy motor club!

[hotrodalex]

The Road needs very little hydraulic brake action to stop it. Just downshift and it slows down quick.

As for my Mazda, it coasts pretty well.