Is there a better all around enthusiast's car than the M3?

[280Z Turbo]

Elise.

It doesn't have the speed or practicality of the M3. However, it does have infinite headroom, which is always nice.

A $60,000 BMW is pretty impractical for me.

[BimmerM3]

A $60,000 BMW is pretty impractical for me.

Is a $22,000 MX-5 any more practical? You can't afford either right now.

We're talking about all generations of M3 here.

[The Pirate]

How does being cheaper make it a better all around enthusiasts' car? 

Oh, it probably doesn't.  But, in the M3's favor, it offers fantastic driving dynamics, a more usable trunk (compared to the 911), seating for 4 adults (again, 911) and still offers enough cachet at the country club, etc.

Don't get me wrong, the 911 is a fantastic car that drives better than the M3, and I'd love to own one.  But it wouldn't be an only car.  As an all arounder, I think that the M3 has a slight edge.

[BimmerM3]

How does being cheaper make it a better all around enthusiasts' car? 

I would argue that attainability is part of being an all around good car. Certainly not the only or most important factor involved, but it's part of the hypothetical equation.

[Onslaught]

How does being cheaper make it a better all around enthusiasts' car? 

And when did an enthusiast's car need to be practical too?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I think the M3 is the best all around car, giving you the most of everything with minimal compromise. This is also why i prefer the sedan M3 to the coupes and verts.

The combination of track readyperformance, on street performance, daily driveability, economy, features and overall versatility leaves it second to none.

[Onslaught]

Is a $22,000 MX-5 any more practical? You can't afford either right now.

We're talking about all generations of M3 here.

Perhaps he's talking about all generations of MX-5's too. You can get a NA for dirt cheap. Way less than any M3.


I'm not sure if there's an answer for this question. The M3 is darn good at doing just about everything. But I'm not sure if I'd call it the best all around enthusiast's car.
It would depend on what you wanted the car to do.

[The Pirate]

And when did an enthusiast's car need to be practical too?

There will be some interpretation, but I think the operating term is all around.

[S204STi]

The STi is pretty good. Mags say it's soft, but only with respect to the EVO. For someone in a snow locked climate I think it's a reliable + cheap alternative to the temperamental S4.

Definitely not "soft" to drive. 

I like the idea of the M3 being top driver's car.  It's what most Japanese performance cars aspire to and are judged against.  It's just a great benchmark car, and while Porsche may have it beat in some areas there's no doubt that every true enthusiast can instantly recognize and appreciate an M3 when spotted on the road.

[the Teuton]

The STI is probably the best out-of-the-box rally car you can buy. Motor Trend has shown that its traction systems allow it to be much faster on the slick and gravely than the Evo, it weighs almost 500 lbs. less, and it's a beast of a car. That's why I included it. Also, what other company supplied its owners with SCCA memberships with their cars? Mitsubishi certainly didn't.

[CALL_911]

The STI is probably the best out-of-the-box rally car you can buy. Motor Trend has shown that its traction systems allow it to be much faster on the slick and gravely than the Evo, it weighs almost 500 lbs. less, and it's a beast of a car. That's why I included it. Also, what other company supplied its owners with SCCA memberships with their cars? Mitsubishi certainly didn't.

Supplied

didn't

I'm a Subaru fan too, but give credit where its due.

[sportyaccordy]

And when did an enthusiast's car need to be practical too?

If you only had one car to commute in, you'd have to be a true masochist to choose something like an Elise.

Obviously if you have something to tool around in, you can get a lot more intense than an M3... point is, it can tool around and still be exciting.

[the Teuton]

Supplied

didn't

I'm a Subaru fan too, but give credit where its due.

PROOF!

[/dlp]

[Rupert]

A true enthusiast doesn't care about trunk space. Miata.

[Onslaught]

If you only had one car to commute in, you'd have to be a true masochist to choose something like an Elise.

Obviously if you have something to tool around in, you can get a lot more intense than an M3... point is, it can tool around and still be exciting.

I don't know. I could do it no problem. Drove a car about the same size for 13 years.

[MrH]

The E46's are faaaar from reliable.  Especially compared to 996's.

[Raza]

I have the 996 Carrera buyer's guide from 911 & Porsche world here.

Among some of the engine issues:

• Cracks in the engine block
• Failure of intermediate-shaft bearing (can mess up timing & make valves hit pistons)
• Oil leak from rear main seal

They're not super common problems, but outside of a rare issue with an oil pump bolt, and a generally weak (but cheaply fixable) cooling system the BMW's engines are pretty solid.

And yea, the M3s might have tight back seats, but they have a back seat. The 911 has a shelf... they are 2 seaters. Beyond that I don't know anyone who seriously considers the M3 a competitor to the 911. It was created to compete in Group A Touring Car racing (a class the 911 does not compete in). The following generations had special race versions made to compete with 911s on race tracks, but these were super limited versions that didn't really epitomize or define the range (like the E46 GTR V8).

Calling the M3 a "failure" is a pretty lame attempt at hyperbole. Again, it's more practical and reliable than the 911... it might not be the better sports car, but as an all around car it can do more.

I've sat in the back of a 911, so don't give me that.

And your reading comprehension is terrible.  I said the M3 was a junior 911, not a 911 competitor.  The failure of a 911 competitor that BMW put out is illustrated below:



It's a nice car, sure, but nothing compared to the 911.  Given one, I'd be happy with it, defend to the hilt (and now I'm checking Autotrader prices), but given the choice, the 911 is the one to take every time, unless you want something softer.

[Raza]

Oh, it probably doesn't.  But, in the M3's favor, it offers fantastic driving dynamics, a more usable trunk (compared to the 911), seating for 4 adults (again, 911) and still offers enough cachet at the country club, etc.

Don't get me wrong, the 911 is a fantastic car that drives better than the M3, and I'd love to own one.  But it wouldn't be an only car.  As an all arounder, I think that the M3 has a slight edge.

Like I said, the M3 is a great junior 911. 

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I'll say C5/C6 Vettes. They're cheaper and faster. And since I don't need a back seat they'd do me just fine as a daily driver. Just my .02!

[Jon?]

I think the STI and EVO come pretty close as strong contenders...

+1.  My STi was a great car, fast and could fit four and had good trunk space.  Living with snow meant AWD made it even more practical.  It's a great car.  I'm sure the EVO would be similar.  I got the STi because after driving both the STi seemed to be a little more polished and easier to live with, although I didn't like the wing.

[ChrisV]

. But I'm not sure if I'd call it the best all around enthusiast's car.
It would depend on what you wanted the car to do.

That last question is ALWAYS best answered by a car dedicated to that purpose. the point is a car that is good no matter WHAT you want a car to do at any given time: i.e. it isn't really, really good at one thing, and sucks ass at another. The besst all around car may not be the best at any one thing, but is, well, the best at anything anybody might want to do.

In this regard, a car like the M3, especially in sedan form, is a really good all around car, not just a performance car, but practical, too. And when looking back, an E36 M3 sedan is an affordable, practical all around car that the 911 and Miata can't match, as the M3 can be good for the family man, as well while still being a fabulous performance car.

[sportyaccordy]

I'll say C5/C6 Vettes. They're cheaper and faster. And since I don't need a back seat they'd do me just fine as a daily driver. Just my .02!

If seating isn't a priority I agree.  The Vette might even be a better choice than the M3 as it has a much higher performance limit and nearly equal gas mileage. I would get a Vette over most 2 seaters in its price range used (Boxster, S2000, 350Z) in a heartbeat. Its not the most precise, polished or pretty but it works damn well.

[SVT_Power]

Those C5 Z06 vettes sure are schweet....

[J86]

I've sat in the back of a 911, so don't give me that.

And your reading comprehension is terrible.  I said the M3 was a junior 911, not a 911 competitor.  The failure of a 911 competitor that BMW put out is illustrated below:



It's a nice car, sure, but nothing compared to the 911.  Given one, I'd be happy with it, defend to the hilt (and now I'm checking Autotrader prices), but given the choice, the 911 is the one to take every time, unless you want something softer.

The 911 is my all-time favorite car, but if you're gonna call that backseat useable for something other than kids (or golf bags) you're absolutely delusional.

[SVT666]

If seating isn't a priority I agree.  The Vette might even be a better choice than the M3 as it has a much higher performance limit and nearly equal gas mileage. I would get a Vette over most 2 seaters in its price range used (Boxster, S2000, 350Z) in a heartbeat. Its not the most precise, polished or pretty but it works damn well.

The only reason I wouldn't take a Cayman S over the Vette would be the LS3.

[NomisR]

I still say Lotus Evora,  You have a mid engined supercar, without all the compromises of a Supercar.. and it has enough trunk space to fit 2 sets of golf clubs, with about 19/29 MPG, and seats 4, 0-60 in less than 5 sec, and Lotus handling..

Evora > M3

[nickdrinkwater]

As well as my MX-5 nomination, I nominate the Mustang.  Pretty much has it all as far as the criteria we're using is concerned, except for maybe handling balance.

[SVT666]

As well as my MX-5 nomination, I nominate the Mustang.  Pretty much has it all as far as the criteria we're using is concerned, except for maybe handling balance.

Actually it's got that too.  It's also got affordability on it's side as well.  I just didn't nominate it because I didn't want to be seen as a troll like Teuton.

[SVT666]

I still say Lotus Evora,  You have a mid engined supercar, without all the compromises of a Supercar.. and it has enough trunk space to fit 2 sets of golf clubs, with about 19/29 MPG, and seats 4, 0-60 in less than 5 sec, and Lotus handling..

Evora > M3

Evora is not a supercar.

[nickdrinkwater]

Evora is not a supercar.

You missed his point (with which I agree), the Evora has the benefits of many a supercar without the drawbacks.