Lexus CT 200h revealed

[nickdrinkwater]

These are the first pictures and details of the Lexus CT 200h, a new five-door hybrid that will be unveiled at next week's Geneva motor show.

The promotional brochure for the car leaked onto the internet on Wednesday night, revealing pictures of the car and official details.

The car is based on the LF-Ch concept shown at the Frankfurt show last year, and is 4320mm long, 1765mm wide and 1430mm high. That makes it slightly smaller than the Prius.

It is powered by the same 1.8-litre four-cylinder VVT-i petrol engine that is found in the Prius and an electric motor, and uses a nickel hydride battery. Power is sent to the front wheels via a electrically-controlled contiuously variable transmission (E-CVT).

No performance details are given, beyond it being described as "powerful".

The car, which is built on an all-new platform, has McPherson strut suspension at the front and a double wishbone arrangement at the rear.

In addition, the CT 200h sits on 17-inch alloys and Lexus says that it has "superior handling agility" to suit their customers' wishes. It also has four driving modes - Ev, Eco, Normal, and Sport. Switching to sport mode turns the instrument panel and centre console spotlight to red.

The document also reveals that more than 500 orders have been placed for the Lexus LFA supercar. Although the production run will be limited to 500 cars, Lexus says it will continue to take orders for the car until mid-March before allocating who will get a car in May.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/247755/

[Catman]

Not bad but it is way too huge.

[Jon?]

Looks kinda like a Mazda or Subaru from the side.

[the Teuton]

I really like the way it looks. But how big is it?

[Catman]

I really like the way it looks. But how big is it?

It is obviously titanic in every sense of the word.  I am guessing it weighs as much as an aircraft carrier as well.  Not sure if it would even fit in a common parking space?

[cawimmer430]

I'm not feeling it. I also didn't like the concept version. Before I pass of my final judgment I will need to see the car in real life. For now, I don't like the exterior design. The side profile looks like a mesh between Yaris and BMW 1-Series hatchback (particularly when you get past the front door).

The interior looks nice from a design point of view. Premium and sporty at the same but when I saw that interior design I was immediately reminded of the BMW Z4 cockpit.


Did I read correctly: hybrid? Now it's bound to fail. Ok, so this is pure speculation on my part but the A3, A-Class/B-Class and 1-Series are relatively simple cars. Lexus has to enter this market with a needlessly complex hybrid version. Why hybrid? This is basically a reskinned a Prius given that the powertrain is from the Prius. I think a choice of normal gasoline / diesel engines would be the right route to take, not a hybrid. Hybrids are expensive in Europe: the Prius is expensive and you can get cars for less money that are cheaper, more stylish, roomier and get great mileage to.

I don't think the CT200h will do well in Europe based on its hybrid system. A more conventional diesel/gasoline setup would have worked better IMO. Only time will tell though...

[Laconian]

LEXUS VEL SATIS!

[93JC]

So... what, Lexus Matrix? Lexus Auris? I'm pretty cynical; I don't think much of this thing.

[Catman]

I'm not feeling it. I also didn't like the concept version. Before I pass of my final judgment I will need to see the car in real life. For now, I don't like the exterior design. The side profile looks like a mesh between Yaris and BMW 1-Series hatchback (particularly when you get past the front door).

The interior looks nice from a design point of view. Premium and sporty at the same but when I saw that interior design I was immediately reminded of the BMW Z4 cockpit.


Did I read correctly: hybrid? Now it's bound to fail. Ok, so this is pure speculation on my part but the A3, A-Class/B-Class and 1-Series are relatively simple cars. Lexus has to enter this market with a needlessly complex hybrid version. Why hybrid? This is basically a reskinned a Prius given that the powertrain is from the Prius. I think a choice of normal gasoline / diesel engines would be the right route to take, not a hybrid. Hybrids are expensive in Europe: the Prius is expensive and you can get cars for less money that are cheaper, more stylish, roomier and get great mileage to.

I don't think the CT200h will do well in Europe based on its hybrid system. A more conventional diesel/gasoline setup would have worked better IMO. Only time will tell though...

Yeah looks like a BMW dash in there.

[Raza]

I like it, but it's not as good looking as the old IS300 Sportcross.

[Galaxy]

Overall I like the design, but the details are a bit fuzzy.

[Galaxy]

Did I read correctly: hybrid? Now it's bound to fail. Ok, so this is pure speculation on my part but the A3, A-Class/B-Class and 1-Series are relatively simple cars. Lexus has to enter this market with a needlessly complex hybrid version. Why hybrid? This is basically a reskinned a Prius given that the powertrain is from the Prius. I think a choice of normal gasoline / diesel engines would be the right route to take, not a hybrid. Hybrids are expensive in Europe: the Prius is expensive and you can get cars for less money that are cheaper, more stylish, roomier and get great mileage to.

I don't think the CT200h will do well in Europe based on its hybrid system. A more conventional diesel/gasoline setup would have worked better IMO. Only time will tell though...

I disagree with this. They will win nothing if they just copy the german auto makers. They need something that is unique.

[2o6]

Reject this warmed over crap. It looks like an iQ and a Matrix had a baby. The profile is fussy, and the proportions are whack.

[nickdrinkwater]

LEXUS VEL SATIS!

I thought that, along with Vauxhall Signum.



The Lexus is obviously smaller though.

[r0tor]

looks like an IS hatchback to me -shrug-

[nickdrinkwater]

I'm not feeling it. I also didn't like the concept version. Before I pass of my final judgment I will need to see the car in real life. For now, I don't like the exterior design. The side profile looks like a mesh between Yaris and BMW 1-Series hatchback (particularly when you get past the front door).

The interior looks nice from a design point of view. Premium and sporty at the same but when I saw that interior design I was immediately reminded of the BMW Z4 cockpit.


Did I read correctly: hybrid? Now it's bound to fail. Ok, so this is pure speculation on my part but the A3, A-Class/B-Class and 1-Series are relatively simple cars. Lexus has to enter this market with a needlessly complex hybrid version. Why hybrid? This is basically a reskinned a Prius given that the powertrain is from the Prius. I think a choice of normal gasoline / diesel engines would be the right route to take, not a hybrid. Hybrids are expensive in Europe: the Prius is expensive and you can get cars for less money that are cheaper, more stylish, roomier and get great mileage to.

I don't think the CT200h will do well in Europe based on its hybrid system. A more conventional diesel/gasoline setup would have worked better IMO. Only time will tell though...

I dislike the looks too (though I thought the concept had potential).

Where I have to disagree is your comment about the hybrid system.  If anything this will be the main selling point of the car, whether you like it or not    You may know that Toyota is about to launch a Hybrid version of the Auris which is going to be built just down the road from here.  Honda have the CR-V coming out soon which will effectively occupy the same market segment.  Lexus are carving out a niche as purveyor of luxury hybrid vehicles and it says it all that other manufacturers are beginning to follow this behaviour.

Look at the forthcoming Auris.  It addresses your criticism by being cheaper to buy than the Prius from which its drivetrain is taken.  It's a conventional hatch that will be an interesting alternative to the diesel Focuses and Golfs that currently dominate the market.  It will possibly offer superior urban fuel economy and no doubt be inferior in extra urban conditions.  It will probably be cheaper to tax than an equivalent diesel.

I agree there should be a choice of gasoline and diesel engines too, I'm not into making a car 'hybrid-only'.  But I think unfortunately hybrids are selling and will continue to do so.  With all the fuss about CO2 emissions people are clamouring to buy cars they perceive as being eco-friendly.

This is no different really to BMW marketing EfficientDynamics.  It's about making people feel good.

(I'm not going all hybrid on you guys, I'd never own one.  But I can see the reasoning/marketing behind it)

Also, in the UK at least the only one of the competitors you mentioned that sells well is the 1 Series.  So it will be interesting to see how this Lexus does in terms of sales numbers.

[2o6]

Here are some clearer pictures.












I still hate it. The concept looked great. This screams tarted-up Corolla.

[sportyaccordy]

Not bad but it is way too huge.

170" long? A Rabbit hatch is only 5" shorter.

Where I take issue with it is in its ugliness. Why get this over (if you can get it equipped as such) a fully loaded leather + navi'd up Matrix?

[Catman]

170" long? A Rabbit hatch is only 5" shorter.

Where I take issue with it is in its ugliness. Why get this over (if you can get it equipped as such) a fully loaded leather + navi'd up Matrix?

The Matrix is a huge car.  C'mon you know that.  Both need to go on a diet ASAP.

[Jon?]

Here are some clearer pictures.

The dash/vents/nav screen doesn't line up with the HVAC/Tranny pod.  That just looks odd. 

[ifcar]

This is what the HS250h should have been -- distinctive and coming with the Prius instead of Camry engine.

[cawimmer430]

I dislike the looks too (though I thought the concept had potential).

Where I have to disagree is your comment about the hybrid system.  If anything this will be the main selling point of the car, whether you like it or not    You may know that Toyota is about to launch a Hybrid version of the Auris which is going to be built just down the road from here.  Honda have the CR-V coming out soon which will effectively occupy the same market segment.  Lexus are carving out a niche as purveyor of luxury hybrid vehicles and it says it all that other manufacturers are beginning to follow this behaviour.

Look at the forthcoming Auris.  It addresses your criticism by being cheaper to buy than the Prius from which its drivetrain is taken.  It's a conventional hatch that will be an interesting alternative to the diesel Focuses and Golfs that currently dominate the market.  It will possibly offer superior urban fuel economy and no doubt be inferior in extra urban conditions.  It will probably be cheaper to tax than an equivalent diesel.

I agree there should be a choice of gasoline and diesel engines too, I'm not into making a car 'hybrid-only'.  But I think unfortunately hybrids are selling and will continue to do so.  With all the fuss about CO2 emissions people are clamouring to buy cars they perceive as being eco-friendly.

This is no different really to BMW marketing EfficientDynamics.  It's about making people feel good.

(I'm not going all hybrid on you guys, I'd never own one.  But I can see the reasoning/marketing behind it)

Also, in the UK at least the only one of the competitors you mentioned that sells well is the 1 Series.  So it will be interesting to see how this Lexus does in terms of sales numbers.

If I remember correctly hybrid sales in the UK are quite "healthy" - in mainland Europe they're not. I know that many Germans don't see many advantages to purchasing a Prius or hybrid Lexus when you can have economical smaller-engined petrol/diesel options from a variety of other manufacturers that are economical. Also, hybrids are quite pricey and if you're going to take the plunge you may as well spend the money on a non-hybrid vehicle etc.

I agree that the hybrid options make Lexus unique, but unique doesn't count for much when you're usually not on top of anyone's shopping list when it comes to luxury cars here. This whole hybrid route isn't ripe in Europe at the moment it seems. I think it would have made more sense if they had offered simple gasoline/diesel engines in the CT. Boasting about how they're the only manufacturer in Europe to offer hybrids is almost laughable when their hybrids are incredibly slow sellers. Again, I'm almost positive that the UK alone accounts for almost 80% of Lexus hybrid sales in Europe if I remember correctly from an article a few months ago in AMS. 

And in a car that is supposed to go head-to-head with the 1-Series, most people want a no-nonsense car with a "proper engine" and none of this complex hybrid stuff. I seriously don't see this hybrid system in the CT as a bonus, but more of a hindrance - especially when hybrids are not seen as sporty here. Then again, I don't know what Lexus marketing research told them, but their strategy in Europe has never really seemed to work. Wait a minute, WHAT STRATEGY? 

Another thing that Lexus has completely ignored until now are cheaper trims. This car only comes with leather seats, right? Looks like that could be a problem since leather seats aren't such a big deal here, even on entry-level luxury cars.

[nickdrinkwater]

If I remember correctly hybrid sales in the UK are quite "healthy" - in mainland Europe they're not. I know that many Germans don't see many advantages to purchasing a Prius or hybrid Lexus when you can have economical smaller-engined petrol/diesel options from a variety of other manufacturers that are economical. Also, hybrids are quite pricey and if you're going to take the plunge you may as well spend the money on a non-hybrid vehicle etc.

I agree that the hybrid options make Lexus unique, but unique doesn't count for much when you're usually not on top of anyone's shopping list when it comes to luxury cars here. This whole hybrid route isn't ripe in Europe at the moment it seems. I think it would have made more sense if they had offered simple gasoline/diesel engines in the CT. Boasting about how they're the only manufacturer in Europe to offer hybrids is almost laughable when their hybrids are incredibly slow sellers. Again, I'm almost positive that the UK alone accounts for almost 80% of Lexus hybrid sales in Europe if I remember correctly from an article a few months ago in AMS. 

And in a car that is supposed to go head-to-head with the 1-Series, most people want a no-nonsense car with a "proper engine" and none of this complex hybrid stuff. I seriously don't see this hybrid system in the CT as a bonus, but more of a hindrance - especially when hybrids are not seen as sporty here. Then again, I don't know what Lexus marketing research told them, but their strategy in Europe has never really seemed to work. Wait a minute, WHAT STRATEGY? 

Another thing that Lexus has completely ignored until now are cheaper trims. This car only comes with leather seats, right? Looks like that could be a problem since leather seats aren't such a big deal here, even on entry-level luxury cars.

Yeah, it's interesting to note the differences between the British and German/other European markets.

Lexus do market here, at the moment they are running a national newspaper campaign.  I've not noticed TV ads though.  I presume less marketing is done in Germany?

Regarding lower trim levels, I agree that Lexus would find itself with a larger market share in the Compact Exec and Exec classes if the IS and GS had a wider choice of trims and engines.  Especially the GS, given that the best selling 5 Series BMW here is the 520d.  Most of these cars are company cars in the US and are chosen for fuel economy and emissions due to the fact that tax is directly calculated on this.  Lexus have missed out on this market big time.

However, regarding leather specifically, I think people are starting to demand more luxury in smaller vehicles, especially since many are trading down these days.  And leather seems to be getting more popular in general.  The new 5 Series comes with leather as standard, you can't get cloth at all (again, using the UK for my information).

[Raza]

The more I see it, the less I like it.  I don't like that C pillar area at all.

[cawimmer430]

Yeah, it's interesting to note the differences between the British and German/other European markets.

I think the British car market is almost very American nowadays. You expect a lot for less or little money. It's not really like this here where people still want to choose what goes into their car and what doesn't. Another conflict is that the more options and features you have the heavier your car and the more fuel you will need to spend on.

Lexus do market here, at the moment they are running a national newspaper campaign.  I've not noticed TV ads though.  I presume less marketing is done in Germany?

Lexus does virtually zero TV advertising here. There used to be a commercial showing the RX450h driving along in absolute stillness around some scenic lake setting but I've not seen this commercial in months.

Most of the Lexus advertisements are found in car magazines. But they only seem to advertise the new RX450h because I've not seen any advertisement for their other products. In fact most of the time you have a big picture of the RX450h where the focus is on the hybrid drive and fuel economy. Below this large picture are the smaller images of the IS, GS, LS and SC. I don't find their advertising very effective to be honest. In fact I find most of the luxury brands advertising here in Germany to be pretty boring, especially Mercedes and BMW - but these ads do serve to remind people that these brands are still around. The Lexus ads don't do anything at all. People know about Lexus, but the appeal and the motivation to buy one isn't there.

Regarding lower trim levels, I agree that Lexus would find itself with a larger market share in the Compact Exec and Exec classes if the IS and GS had a wider choice of trims and engines.  Especially the GS, given that the best selling 5 Series BMW here is the 520d.  Most of these cars are company cars in the US and are chosen for fuel economy and emissions due to the fact that tax is directly calculated on this.  Lexus have missed out on this market big time.

The only Lexus GS available in the UK is the GS450h, right? I find that very strange and this confuses me as to the Lexus strategy in Europe. WHAT STRATEGY? 

However, regarding leather specifically, I think people are starting to demand more luxury in smaller vehicles, especially since many are trading down these days.  And leather seems to be getting more popular in general.  The new 5 Series comes with leather as standard, you can't get cloth at all (again, using the UK for my information).

In the UK a low-end 5er probably comes with leather as standard because of market conditions and trends. In Germany the base 5er still comes with cloth seats. I've never really made a big fuzz about cloth, leather or fake leather. Most Mercedes' for instance are sold with fake leather (MB TEX) because it looks like the real thing, lasts longer and is easier to clean.

[nickdrinkwater]

I think the British car market is almost very American nowadays. You expect a lot for less or little money. It's not really like this here where people still want to choose what goes into their car and what doesn't. Another conflict is that the more options and features you have the heavier your car and the more fuel you will need to spend on.

Not sure about that.  Ok, you can't buy the Executive class models (E-Class, 5er etc) in absolute stripper versions as you can in Deutschland.  But you can still buy small engined versions of those cars, I already mentioned the 520d for example.

Car prices in the UK have over many years been the highest in Europe, so much so that at one time (before the Euro) many people travelled to mainland Europe to order cars there.  There was a period, post Euro introduction, where the exchange rate meant we got more for our money than before, but now the Pound is weaker against the Euro there's no way we expect more for less.  Look at the list price of most Fords in the UK, for example!

I doubt anyone thinks about weight and fuel economy when it comes to specifying options because besides the difference will be negligible, if not non-existent.  I can't believe this is a serious concern in mainland Europe, either.

The only Lexus GS available in the UK is the GS450h, right? I find that very strange and this confuses me as to the Lexus strategy in Europe. WHAT STRATEGY? 

Yes, the Lexus GS, LS and RX are all hybrid only models in the UK.  I think there was previously a GS300 available but it's been discontinued.

Incidentally, this was unveiled today:



You Germans are finally catching up with Lexus!   

[cawimmer430]

Not sure about that.  Ok, you can't buy the Executive class models (E-Class, 5er etc) in absolute stripper versions as you can in Deutschland.  But you can still buy small engined versions of those cars, I already mentioned the 520d for example.

The UK certainly demands more features/standard features it seems, but you guys seem to have the same outlook on the engine front. "If I am going to drive a BMW 5er/MB E-Class mostly in the city then all I need is a 520d/E200 CDI/E220 CDI."

Car prices in the UK have over many years been the highest in Europe, so much so that at one time (before the Euro) many people travelled to mainland Europe to order cars there.  There was a period, post Euro introduction, where the exchange rate meant we got more for our money than before, but now the Pound is weaker against the Euro there's no way we expect more for less.  Look at the list price of most Fords in the UK, for example!

I doubt anyone thinks about weight and fuel economy when it comes to specifying options because besides the difference will be negligible, if not non-existent.  I can't believe this is a serious concern in mainland Europe, either.

It's not a serious concern, but some people do think like that (my dad included). Also, many people like to order the things they will need and use in their luxury car. Having all these fancy gadgets as standard might be nice for some people, but not for others. Everyone is different. In my case, I don't ever want a car where there are so many fancy gizmos that I will never ever use. Satellite radio? I don't need it since I hardly listen to the radio anyways. Massage seats? A nice feature, but realistically I don't need it since I don't drive a lot.

Yes, the Lexus GS, LS and RX are all hybrid only models in the UK.  I think there was previously a GS300 available but it's been discontinued.

Sounds like a typical Lexus move for Europe - remove something that doesn't sell well and replaced it with something that doesn't sell at all. 

Incidentally, this was unveiled today:



You Germans are finally catching up with Lexus!   

Huh? We're finally catching up with Lexus in offering fuel-efficient cars? HUH? 

[omicron]

Hello - a three-year-old Toyota Blade with a Hofmeister kink.






Honestly, Lexus, I want to defend you and your business model, but this ES/HS/CT/SC stupidity makes it harder and harder to applaud the excellent IS and able LS. BMW, Audi and Mercedes are far, far ahead of these recent cynical, half-hearted efforts from you. Disappointing.

[nickdrinkwater]

It doesn't really look like that car you posted pics of, which itself looks more like an Auris than the CT 200h.

I'm not saying I'm a massive fan of the CT 200h (though I won't make my mind up until I see it in the metal) but I can't see that many similarities.  They're both white?   Otherwise they look quite unrelated, both in detail and general proportion.

[nickdrinkwater]

The UK certainly demands more features/standard features it seems, but you guys seem to have the same outlook on the engine front. "If I am going to drive a BMW 5er/MB E-Class mostly in the city then all I need is a 520d/E200 CDI/E220 CDI."

No, it's actually a case of "I will choose the company car that I have to pay the least tax on" or "I will choose the company car that the company says I can have" (which will be a 4cyl diesel).

It's not a serious concern, but some people do think like that (my dad included). Also, many people like to order the things they will need and use in their luxury car. Having all these fancy gadgets as standard might be nice for some people, but not for others. Everyone is different. In my case, I don't ever want a car where there are so many fancy gizmos that I will never ever use. Satellite radio? I don't need it since I hardly listen to the radio anyways. Massage seats? A nice feature, but realistically I don't need it since I don't drive a lot.

You can buy most 'luxury' cars in the UK without those features, just as I guess you can in Germany.

Sounds like a typical Lexus move for Europe - remove something that doesn't sell well and replaced it with something that doesn't sell at all. 

I presume it's (again) partly due to taxation reasons.  Our wonderful government is implementing a fierce taxation policy on new vehicles, based on Co2 emissions.  It goes like this:

- new cars emitting over 225g/km of Co2 will be subject to ~?430 annual vehicle excise duty (aka tax), compared to ~?230 for the band below (201 to 225g/km).
- new cars will be subject to a 'showroom tax' which is a sales tax, again based on the Co2 emissions of the car.  Cars emitting over 255g/km are subject to a ?950 charge, between 226 and 255 it's ?750, and so on.

And here's what a quick Google revealed (annual VED in brackets).

GS300: 226-232g/km, ?415
GS430: 269g/km, ?440
GS450h: 185-186g/km, ?260

It's now clear why Lexus dropped the GS300 and sells the GS450h.  Cheaper to run and better for the environment.