2010 Truck Sales for February and YTD, USA

[TBR]

"Off my rockers?" Why do you chronically insist in standing in front of the bus that is my Internetry?

The Silverado tested was the 310 hp 5.3L. The Ram tested was w/the optional 390 hp 5.7L. (Meaning, the Silverado w/403 hp 6.2L & 6sp AT walks the Ram.)

Right, I suppose if you want to compare the Ram's most common engine option (the Hemi) with the Silverado's most rare (the 6.2), then sure the Silverado will be a little faster. Of course anyone with any sense recognizes that once a truck can get 60 in under 8 seconds there are more important things to consider. Faster unloaded also does not mean faster with a load. Even so,  all of these trucks will be plenty fast with loads that half ton truck buyers actually tow (~5-6000 lbs), and the Ram's superior suspension will probably add stability and will definitely be more comfortable. Let's face it, 95% of the time these trucks will be used for commuting. The Ram will be the best commuter. By a rational set of criteria, the Ram wins. If you want to pretend that all truck buyers care about is 0-60 then sure the Tundra and the Silverado are better. But that is just an ridiculous assertion to make.

[GoCougs]

I'm sorry TBR but your attempt at diversion has failed.

[SVT666]

I'm sorry TBR but your attempt at diversion has failed.

Chevy fast, Chevy better = FAIL.

I don't need a drag racer for a pickup truck.  My Ram towed a 5000 lbs trailer up a 6% grade for 30 straight minutes (it doesn't level out until the summit) at 125 km/h and it wasn't even planted.  That's so much more power then any 1/2 Ton needs.  The Ford's 5.4L might fall short of the others, but it's no slouch.  In all the other important areas of what makes a truck good, the Dodge and Ford are tops.  Personally, I think the Dodge is the best pickup on the market in all payload classes.

[TBR]

I'm sorry TBR but your attempt at diversion has failed.

Trying to divert me by claiming that I am trying to divert you doesn't fool me.

These are trucks, not sports cars. I know you like to think that straight line performance is the most important thing in the world, but it isn't. Especially not when it comes to trucks. GM offers a moderately better drive train than Dodge, but Dodge still makes the best trucks due to their suspension, build quality, and more than ample power.

[GoCougs]

You make a claim, and make an attack:

The Ram's suspension is "most certainly something to behold" yet GM's marginally better drive trains outweigh it? Even though, per C/D's March 2009 comparison test, the Silverado was not faster than the Ram in a single acceleration test? And Ford's gas engine is "embarrassingly anemic" even though it's no more than .4 seconds slower than a comparable Silverado in every acceleration test C/D performs that doesn't involve 90+ mph speeds?  You are off your rockers.

The Silverado's only power train edge is slightly better gas mileage.

I counter that you failed in actually reading the article noting that the optional 6.2L was not used in the Silverado:

"Off my rockers?" Why do you chronically insist in standing in front of the bus that is my Internetry?

The Silverado tested was the 310 hp 5.3L. The Ram tested was w/the optional 390 hp 5.7L. (Meaning, the Silverado w/403 hp 6.2L & 6sp AT walks the Ram.)

You get caught but rather than acquiescing you blather on about which is "rare" and which is "popular" and then carry on your diversion with what you feel is the better truck, anchoring your claim in "good enough" and subjective criteria.

Right, I suppose if you want to compare the Ram's most common engine option (the Hemi) with the Silverado's most rare (the 6.2), then sure the Silverado will be a little faster. Of course anyone with any sense recognizes that once a truck can get 60 in under 8 seconds there are more important things to consider. Faster unloaded also does not mean faster with a load. Even so,  all of these trucks will be plenty fast with loads that half ton truck buyers actually tow (~5-6000 lbs), and the Ram's superior suspension will probably add stability and will definitely be more comfortable. Let's face it, 95% of the time these trucks will be used for commuting. The Ram will be the best commuter. By a rational set of criteria, the Ram wins. If you want to pretend that all truck buyers care about is 0-60 then sure the Tundra and the Silverado are better. But that is just an ridiculous assertion to make.

I point out that your diversion failed:

I'm sorry TBR but your attempt at diversion has failed.

And now you have the gall to continue:

Trying to divert me by claiming that I am trying to divert you doesn't fool me.

These are trucks, not sports cars. I know you like to think that straight line performance is the most important thing in the world, but it isn't. Especially not when it comes to trucks. GM offers a moderately better drive train than Dodge, but Dodge still makes the best trucks due to their suspension, build quality, and more than ample power.

[GoCougs]

Chevy fast, Chevy better = FAIL.

I don't need a drag racer for a pickup truck.  My Ram towed a 5000 lbs trailer up a 6% grade for 30 straight minutes (it doesn't level out until the summit) at 125 km/h and it wasn't even planted.  That's so much more power then any 1/2 Ton needs.  The Ford's 5.4L might fall short of the others, but it's no slouch.  In all the other important areas of what makes a truck good, the Dodge and Ford are tops.  Personally, I think the Dodge is the best pickup on the market in all payload classes.

No offense, but you're speaking the language of complacency. Just because you feel it's good enough for you doesn't means squat.

The Silverado 6.2L would perform said towing duty with much more margin for passing power all the while using less fuel.

[TBR]

You make a claim, and make an attack:

I counter that you failed in actually reading the article noting that the optional 6.2L was not used in the Silverado:

You get caught but rather than acquiescing you blather on about which is "rare" and which is "popular" and then carry on your diversion with what you feel is the better truck, anchoring your claim in "good enough" and subjective criteria.

I point out that your diversion failed:

And now you have the gall to continue:

No attempt to divert on my part. I knew from the start that I was looking at numbers for the 5.3. I live in truck country. I have only seen a handful of 6.2s (and they are clearly identified with a badge on the front door), indicating that it isn't a truck you would normally find on a dealer lot so I don't think it's particular relevant. Besides, you diverted first by completely ignoring my argument in order to get on your high-horse and point out something I already knew.

You said that Dodge's suspension is a game changer and then said that GM's power train advantage, which you admitted to be marginal, makes it the winner regardless. That is not logical unless you think the only important character trait of a vehicle is it's speed. It simply does NOT follow that the best truck is the fastest truck. Actually, never is the fastest option automatically the best option. You can argue otherwise all you want, but it is plainly not true.

I have no issue admitting that the GM 6.2 6AT is a faster combination than the Dodge 5.7 5AT combination. That's an undeniable fact. But, it's irrelevant. Hell, I'd probably take the slower GM 5.3 4AT combination over the Hemi simply for the gas mileage because, get this, I have no need for a truck that can get to 60 in 6.5 seconds. It's simply nonsensical. But, of course, I would be shopping for a truck, not for an engine. So I'd buy the Dodge or the Ford (I prefer the more understated styling of the Ford myself).

Go on thinking that the Silverado and Tundra are the best trucks because they are the fastest, but you are wrong.

[GoCougs]

Please - you had no clue said comparison utilized the GM 5.3L. No my dear TBR, I once again beat you at the game of Internets.  

There is no argument counter to the reality that GM has overall the best domestic power trains; certainly so for the 1/2-ton class. Your subjective psuedo-counter arguments are diversion.

GM trucks rule the domestic roost for now, and nothing you say, certainly not variations of "yeah, but who needs THAT much power," will change that judgment.

[TBR]

Please - you had no clue said comparison utilized the GM 5.3L. No my dear TBR, I once again beat you at the game of Internets.  

There is no argument counter to the reality that GM has overall the best domestic power trains; certainly so for the 1/2-ton class. Your subjective psuedo-counter arguments are diversion.

GM trucks rule the domestic roost for now, and nothing you say, certainly not variations of "yeah, but who needs THAT much power," will change that judgment.

Right, because I would lie for the sake of an argument on the internet . I knew exactly what I was looking at. The 6.2 is irrelevant to the marketplace. Almost as irrelevant as the Lightning was.

You STILL have not addressed my argument. You continue to divert because you know you have made a fool of yourself, yet again. You declared the GMs to be the superior truck, backed that up by saying that they had marginally better power trains (a fact I am not arguing, GM does offer slightly better engine options than Dodge and significantly better options than Ford). Nevermind that the Dodge and Ford are clearly better trucks in every other way. Their chassis's are newer and stronger. Their interiors are far nicer. Their gearboxes generally offer more cogs. The Dodge has a revolutionary rear suspension. They are better trucks even if they have inferior engines.

None of your squawking is going to convince me that I have lost.

And quit being a pussy and disable the hidden feature. We all know it's you.

[giant_mtb]

COUGS, YOU'RE A RAGING LUNATIC. 

[GoCougs]

Right, because I would lie for the sake of an argument on the internet . I knew exactly what I was looking at. The 6.2 is irrelevant to the marketplace. Almost as irrelevant as the Lightning was.

You STILL have not addressed my argument. You continue to divert because you know you have made a fool of yourself, yet again. You declared the GMs to be the superior truck, backed that up by saying that they had marginally better power trains (a fact I am not arguing, GM does offer slightly better engine options than Dodge and significantly better options than Ford). Nevermind that the Dodge and Ford are clearly better trucks in every other way. Their chassis's are newer and stronger. Their interiors are far nicer. Their gearboxes generally offer more cogs. The Dodge has a revolutionary rear suspension. They are better trucks even if they have inferior engines.

None of your squawking is going to convince me that I have lost.

And quit being a pussy and disable the hidden feature. We all know it's you.

The reason I don't address your "argument" is because there is none. First, your information continues to be wrong. For example, as to "more cogs" GM has 6sp AT available for its larger V8s and diesel. Dodge taps out with 5sp ATs for its V8s. As to "newer and stronger" chassis, Ford Super Duty frame is still not full boxed.

You haven't lost because you back the inferior trucks, you lose because your "data" continues to be wrong and you are a hypocrite (you say more power is mostly irrelevant in a truck yet you turn toward "far nicer interiors" in a truck as a worthy criterion - LOL).

At the end of the day I declare the GM trucks as the best domestic truck you can buy, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[GoCougs]

COUGS, YOU'RE A RAGING LUNATIC. 

And you still don't use clipless pedals...

[giant_mtb]

And you still don't use clipless pedals...

And I'd still kick yo' ass on the trail.

[SVT666]

And I'd still kick yo' ass on the trail.

Uh oh, you just threatened Cougs.  He's never going to want to meet you now.

[giant_mtb]

[GoCougs]

And I'd still kick yo' ass on the trail.

If we're taking x-country, you'd be one rare bird. No one I ride with, and virtually no one out on the trails, is in anything but clipess. It's impossible to put all your power to the trail when it is needed most; technical climbing, steep climbing and technical requiring short bursts of power, without clipless. This, coupled with the general life sentiment that a braggart can rarely walk his talk, I'm going to guess probably not.

[SVT666]

If we're taking x-country, you'd be one rare bird. No one I ride with, and virtually no one out on the trails, is in anything but clipess. It's impossible to put all your power to the trail when it is needed most; technical climbing, steep climbing and technical requiring short bursts of power, without clipless. This, coupled with the general life sentiment that a braggart can rarely walk his talk, I'm going to guess probably not.

So you must be one of the most disappointing people to ever meet outside the internets eh? 

[Galaxy]

If these trucks are really used to their potential, then you can forget the HEMI vs. 6.2 vs. Ford engine and instead discuss Cummins vs Powerstroke vs Duramax.

Are the Navistar sourced Powerstrokes still self destructing?


Edit: I just remembered the diesels are only offered on the HDs. Still an interesting discussion

[GoCougs]

If these trucks are really used to their potential, then you can forget the HEMI vs. 6.2 vs. Ford engine and instead discuss Cummins vs Powerstroke vs Duramax.

Are the Navistar sourced Powerstrokes still self destructing?


Edit: I just remembered the diesels are only offered on the HDs. Still an interesting discussion

Gas vs. Diesel, unloaded and towing 10,000 lbs, flat. The Hemi is the only real laggard but as noted in the article the Hemi was hamstrung by a ridiculously tall second gear.

Gas vs. Diesel, towing 10,000 lbs, 7% grade. Again the Hemi is the laggard, Ford V10 is a virtual tie, and the GM 6.0L a slight laggard.

I must note a few things about this test. First, the test is actually 1-ton diesels vs. 3/4-tons gassers, so the diesels will have a slight disadvantage owing to additional weight (and a couple are actually duallies). Second, the test uses weaker gas engines from 2007; 345 hp Hemi, 353 hp GM 6.0L and 362 hp Ford V10. Since then gassers have increased ~50hp while the diesels have remained constant.

As compared to the most powerful gas counterparts, diesels' material advantage is longevity and to a lesser extent efficiency (diesel is more expensive in a lot of the US). Gassers offer much better acceleration performance when unloaded and with light towing, and judging by this test the new crop of 390 - 400 hp gassers and will offer similar (GM) or better (Ford) acceleration performance under moderate (10,000 lb) towing. The jury's out on heavy towing (12,000 lb+) but my hunch is diesel performance advantage will be slight.

[giant_mtb]

If we're taking x-country, you'd be one rare bird. No one I ride with, and virtually no one out on the trails, is in anything but clipess. It's impossible to put all your power to the trail when it is needed most; technical climbing, steep climbing and technical requiring short bursts of power, without clipless. This, coupled with the general life sentiment that a braggart can rarely walk his talk, I'm going to guess probably not.

People grow accustomed and become good at what they use.  I have used platforms since day 1, and I'm damn fucking good at riding them...just as good as anybody on clipless that I've seen.  Why the fuck do you even call them clipless, anyways?  The only "clipless" pedals on the trails are fucking platforms.  AFAIK, you, uh...CLIP IN to your fancy pedals. 

[GoCougs]

People grow accustomed and become good at what they use.  I have used platforms since day 1, and I'm damn fucking good at riding them...just as good as anybody on clipless that I've seen.  Why the fuck do you even call them clipless, anyways?  The only "clipless" pedals on the trails are fucking platforms.  AFAIK, you, uh...CLIP IN to your fancy pedals.  

Me? Where/who/what/when do you ride such that clipless isn't a common term? EVERYONE calls them clipless.

"Clip" pedals are platform-style pedals with a toe cage/retainer called a toe clip:



"Clipless" got the name from doing away with the toe clip.

[giant_mtb]

It was more sarcasm than anything, brah.  Hence the wink face.  I'm well aware of where they got their name from.

[Nethead]

Please - you had no clue said comparison utilized the GM 5.3L. No my dear TBR, I once again beat you at the game of Internets.  

There is no argument counter to the reality that GM has overall the best domestic power trains; certainly so for the 1/2-ton class. Your subjective psuedo-counter arguments are diversion.

GM trucks rule the domestic roost for now, and nothing you say, certainly not variations of "yeah, but who needs THAT much power," will change that judgment.

Well, of course you can swallow BlowCougs swill, or listen to those who earn their living publishing real knowledge about vehicles, such as Edmunds:

Best Used Vehicle Values, 2009   (2010's will be determined in June, 2010)

Large Truck: 2002-2007 Ford F-150

There must be a very good reason that the Ford F-150 has been the top-selling vehicle in America for the last two decades. We can think of many: a huge variety of cab styles and trim levels, a comfortable interior with sound ergonomics, a compliant ride, communicative and precise steering, smooth power plants and best-in-class brakes.