Small premium cars?

[ifcar]

In America, thankfully wants = needs.

Okay, if you don't WANT a bigger car.

[2o6]

Also, all, please keep in mind that the BMW 3 series, for example, is a compact car.  It's the same size as my Jetta (actually, 1" shorter).

I was going to say that. So is the C-class.



When the E21 came out in 1973, sales doubled.

In America, thankfully wants = needs.

And jugding by the success of the 3-series, A4, A3, C-class and especially the entire MINI lineup, that notion is changing.

I meant mainstream car........not a 2+2.

[Jon?]

Define usable.

I don't think there's any car on sale that has a rear seat that two adults can't sit in to some degree of comfort.

Define degree of comfort.  It all comes down to what you intend to use your car for.  For most people a Cam/Accord is more flexible than a Civic/Corolla.  Maybe not as fun to drive, but that's not a primary consideration for most people.

If the cost of loading up a smaller car puts it into the same price range of a larger car, many will look at the larger car.

[Galaxy]

And proves my point. You'd have to be nuts to buy an A3.

If you have to search for a parking spot every morning, cars like the Golf, A3 make much more sense.

[Galaxy]

In America, thankfully wants = needs.

BS.

The average American  patriot wants a ZR-1 and a Gulfstream G 650, well not the hippies, but he can't afford them.

[GoCougs]

BS.

The average American  patriot wants a ZR-1 and a Gulfstream G 650. Well not the hippies.

The average American does not want those things; the average American does not know they exist (especially the former).

The average American wants (needs) a 5,500 lb, 300+ hp, 4wd dreadnought; a.k.a., a full-size pick up, to the tune of 1,000,000 units a year (even in a horrific economy).

[GoCougs]

If you have to search for a parking spot every morning, cars like the Golf, A3 make much more sense.

Maybe, but then I'd challenge that one shouldn't put oneself into a situation whereby one has to search every morning for parking.

[Raza]

In America, thankfully wants = needs.

And if you don't want a bigger car?

[2o6]

And if you don't want a bigger car?

Irrelevant. Statistics show that you want one. And if you want one you need one.

[Raza]

Define degree of comfort.  It all comes down to what you intend to use your car for.  For most people a Cam/Accord is more flexible than a Civic/Corolla.  Maybe not as fun to drive, but that's not a primary consideration for most people.

If the cost of loading up a smaller car puts it into the same price range of a larger car, many will look at the larger car.

Maybe it's a perception thing.  I know when I look at a loaded up smaller car (as long as it's not loaded up with frivolities) against a more stripped larger car, I go straight for the smaller car.  I don't consider size a luxury; if anything, I consider it a negative.  If I had bought a Passat instead of my Jetta (while my Wolfsburg was bargain priced, a comparable GLI does run into the Passat 2.0T range), I'd be paying more in running costs and getting a less fun car to drive (though it's conceivable my insurance would be cheaper) with fewer amenities--depending on model year, a Passat with a stickshift and sunroof was just not available--just to have size that I don't need.  I've had four cars in my life, and if we disregard the little side adventure I call co-owning a Boxster S, I went from midsize to midsize to compact...each time I've gotten a new car, I've been happier with it than I was the time before.  That's without even mentioning that my compact Jetta is about the same size, with a bigger trunk, more power, more amenities, and the same or better gas mileage (it's really loosening up now that I've past 25K; I'm getting 27-28 where I used to get 24-25, and got 25 in my Passat) than the midsizer I had before.  We once did a line by line comparison of the Jetta against the last generation Legacy, and though the Legacy is a midsize, in most meaningful measures it came up short. 

And yes, I understand for many people, size is a consideration.  I don't have a family, and would do fine with an even smaller car.  But then again, it should be said that size class does not always equal more usable space. 

[Galaxy]

Maybe, but then I'd challenge that one shouldn't put oneself into a situation whereby one has to search every morning for parking.

That is a bit difficult. In a 82 million smaller then Montana country land costs are high on average, so employers, superstores, etc are scrooges when it comes to parking spaces.

[TurboDan]

I challenge that people buy VW because they want ze German experience but can't afford MB, BMW or Audi.

What's wrong with that? A solid German car for a decent price is somehow something that you look down upon?

FWIW, in my family we've switched between VWs and Audis over the years. It usually comes down to which dealership is offering a better bang for the buck and which marque is offering which cars at the time of the purchase.

[Jon?]

That is a bit difficult. In a 82 million smaller then Montana country land costs are high on average, so employers, superstores, etc are scrooges when it comes to parking spaces.

Then one must leave one's county then, mustn't one?

[TurboDan]

The S40 and G20 never failed.

Yeah, I was kinda scratching my head on that one too. It seems like every other car on the road here is an S40. And there were plenty of G20s around during their heyday. My aunt still has one from the early 00s.

[omicron]

C30 ??

Do want. T5. Sign here, sir.

The inner-city suburbs clustered around the CBD of all the major Australian cities are a haven for the A3/Golf/1/3/C30-type cars. In dense areas like that where off-street parking isn't a guarantee, laneways and side streets are narrow, and income is relatively high, a premium small car makes good sense.

[TurboDan]

I don't consider size a luxury; if anything, I consider it a negative. 

Bingo. I see size as an obstacle to parking and superior cornering. I have no use for a large vehicle, but plenty of use for premium aspects of any vehicle.

Also, I agree on Passat vs. Jetta. I didn't really look at the Jetta when I was buying the Passat (I got a good deal on a loaded Passat so I took it) but I was recently riding in a friend's M/T 2.0 Jetta and was very impressed. My friend let me drive and it was more fun than the Passat and I liked that it was a little smaller.

I'm still kind of enamored with the Eos, though... Just have to drive one.

[Jon?]

Maybe it's a perception thing.  I know when I look at a loaded up smaller car (as long as it's not loaded up with frivolities) against a more stripped larger car, I go straight for the smaller car... 
And yes, I understand for many people, size is a consideration.  I don't have a family, and would do fine with an even smaller car.  But then again, it should be said that size class does not always equal more usable space. 

Right, and again, it comes down to what you need the car for.  I took a very very quick look at the Honda site and priced out a completely loaded Civic, with Nav and leather vs. a comparably priced Accord.  For less than $800, you can bump yourself into an EX trim Accord and really only lose the leather and the Nav.  An EX trim Accord is by no means a stripper version.  It's hard for me to think that the smaller car is more compelling, unless driving dynamics are paramount, in which case the Civic is simply more fun.

I owned a Civic Coupe prior to my CTS.  The Civic was fun to drive and very cheap on gas and I liked the car (apart from head restraints that gave me a sore neck and eventually forced me to sell it, but that's another story).  But there are occasions when I need to make use of the back seat to shuttle people, and it was simply not a place to put friends.  In this case, driving dynamics weren't compelling enough for me to keep it.  Ten years ago, maybe, but with family and friends, it just didn't work.

Bingo. I see size as an obstacle to parking and superior cornering. I have no use for a large vehicle, but plenty of use for premium aspects of any vehicle.

One of my kids has an '04 Saab 9-3.  I had a chance to drive it the other day and it was a hoot.  Much lighter than my CTS and much more fun to drive fast.  But here's the thing, when he needed to make a three hour road trip over this past weekend, he asked to borrow my Caddy.  He said the Saab was frankly noisy for a long trip and the CTS would be more comfortable.

I told him to suck it up and drive the Saab.   

[AutobahnSHO]

C30

Do want. T5. Sign here, sir.
.

I would have gone into debt for one, until I saw one the other day and realized they don't have 5seats. (I have 3 kids..)

[GoCougs]

What's wrong with that? A solid German car for a decent price is somehow something that you look down upon?

FWIW, in my family we've switched between VWs and Audis over the years. It usually comes down to which dealership is offering a better bang for the buck and which marque is offering which cars at the time of the purchase.

The point being the trade-off going with VW ain't worth it IMO. One gives up too much in the reliability department.

FWIW, my family will never buy German (still a bit worked up over the war).

[Raza]

The point being the trade-off going with VW ain't worth it IMO. One gives up too much in the reliability department.

FWIW, my family will never buy German (still a bit worked up over the war).

I could see how many people would trade marginal reliability against a perception of reliability, especially if they don't value feedback or driving dynamics.

And it was 60 years ago, get over it.  Japan was on the other side of the war too...

[TurboDan]

The point being the trade-off going with VW ain't worth it IMO. One gives up too much in the reliability department.

FWIW, my family will never buy German (still a bit worked up over the war).

So I assume you're saying the trade is reliability versus fun to drive? Aside from the recent issue I had with my car last week, it's been absolutely perfect to 114K miles. It's arguably the most reliable car I've ever owned. And even without reliability on its side, I'd say VW is worth it because, let's face it, we spend a lot of time in our cars and I'd rather enjoy some of that time rather than tool around in a soulless appliance.

And also, FWIW, VW is tied with your sainted Honda (and Ford) for fewest repairs:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/cars/microsite/auto-show/Honda+Ford+least+repairs+firm+says/2662083/story.html

[Onslaught]

If I couldn't buy a car because the country did something wrong in war at some time in it's existence I couldn't buy any car ever made.

[Jon?]

The point being the trade-off going with VW ain't worth it IMO. One gives up too much in the reliability department.

When did those other German marques become more reliable than VW?

[GoCougs]

Sure people trade reliability for "fun to drive" (read: badge snobbery). Look how many people still buy BMW and M-B.

A Passat has as much "soul" as a 7th generation Accord with the added "benefit" one would need to opt for the ~$40k W8 version to keep up with a $23k LX V6.

Japan got The Bomb Germany didn't.

No German makes are more reliable than VW save for Mini. I don't mean to offend or troll, just how I see it.

[2o6]

Sure people trade reliability for "fun to drive" (read: badge snobbery). Look how many people still buy BMW and M-B.

Ugh. MAYBE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE FLOATY MIDSIZE SEDANS. THEY'D RATHER HAVE SOMETHING SMALLER AND MORE AGILE.

A Passat has as much "soul" as a 7th generation Accord with the added "benefit" one would need to opt for the ~$40k W8 version to keep up with a $23k LX V6.

The Passat also was nicer inside.

Japan got The Bomb Germany didn't.

No German makes are more reliable than VW save for Mini. I don't mean to offend or troll, just how I see it.

[NomisR]

Sure people trade reliability for "fun to drive" (read: badge snobbery). Look how many people still buy BMW and M-B.

A Passat has as much "soul" as a 7th generation Accord with the added "benefit" one would need to opt for the ~$40k W8 version to keep up with a $23k LX V6.

Japan got The Bomb Germany didn't.

No German makes are more reliable than VW save for Mini. I don't mean to offend or troll, just how I see it.

Mini's reliable?  

But seriously, overall in terms of reliability for modern cars, none are too far off from each other, you will no more likely encounter a major failure that will leave you stranded for a new modern car (sold in the US) regardless of brands.

[Galaxy]

FWIW, my family will never buy German (still a bit worked up over the war).

What ever your family drives it will have something from Bosch under the hood.

[Colin]

Maybe, but then I'd challenge that one shouldn't put oneself into a situation whereby one has to search every morning for parking.

Have you ever been to Europe? We simply do not have the space that you have in the US. We live in smaller houses, we have less space for everything. Somehow, the average family in Europe manages to pack themselves into a Fiesta or a Polo, or a Clio or a 207. Cars of this size the best sellers in most European markets.... yes, taxation does not encourage people to have bigger cars in some countries, but it is more practical considerations that affect people's choice more than anything else.

If I was feeling polite, I would simply point out that this yet further proof that there are different requirements in different markets, which is why the "world car" is quite a challenging concept.

If I was feeling less polite, well, let's not go there.........

[GoCougs]

Not many people want "more agile" - just take a gander at the top 10 selling vehicles in the US...

A bit awkward on that one - meant MINI was worse than VW...

I'm not too worked up over the war; quite the contrary, I am fascinated with a lot of the tech ze Germans managed to develop...

I'm sorry, but if you have search to for parking every morning, you're doing something wrong...

[Galaxy]

Not many people want "more agile" - just take a gander at the top 10 selling vehicles in the US...

Perhaps not many Americans want agile. However considering that more and more cars in america use "european" suspension setups that can be argued against.

There was a reason the Camry failed miserably in Europe and was replaced by the Avensis. The Camry handled rubbish.